Police in Focus's
Discussion
Sorry, I dont wish to single any police officers out here, but I have a bit of a rant, and both are two seperate occasions both with police Ford Focus's....
First was a couple of months back......it was about 4:30am and I was travelling near Norwich on a dual carriageway. Going round a roundabout I noticed a police car come onto the road travelling in my direction. Now I was doing about 75 at this point, and the police car came right up behind me to the point where I couldn't see his headlights over my bootlid, so I braked slightly to 65, and he slowed down too, still right on my bumper. I then increased my speed to about 85....he didnt pull my over and stayed close behind me, still! I then braked to 70 and he sat very close (within the 2 second gap) behind me. At any time during this he could have over taken me, but didn't. This went on for about a mile, then all of a sudden he just accelerated away. When he was in front I roughly paced him in excess of 90mph!
My second incident was with the last week at around 3pm on a weekday (so busyish roads). I was travelling into Norwich on the dual carriageway, when a pack of cars (with a Police Focus at the front) pulled onto the road. I was only travelling at about 75. A van in this pack pulled straight out in front of me, causing me to brake heavily....I flashed my lights....did the copper see? DID HE FOOK!!! Anyway, after the van pulled into the slow lane, I continued at 75 and wasn't encroaching on the police car. I sped up and roughly paced him at 85. I was well back from the police car, but I wasn't very impressed with his driving! (Don't get me wrong, I'm no expert) But the policeman driving, while exceeding the speed limit with no real excuse, was changing lanes with no indication what-so-ever. He exited the dual carriageway on the same exit I needed. Upon heading into the city, the limit drops from a 60 to 40mph limit. I was just behind him, when he braked sharply from 65 to 40 when entering the limit.
Neither of the incidents caused any upset for myself or other drivers. I just think it's a bit bad for this kind of driving to be displayed on public roads, from the very people who are supposed to be setting an example.
Rant over!
Darren
>> Edited by iluvmercs on Saturday 20th May 20:37
First was a couple of months back......it was about 4:30am and I was travelling near Norwich on a dual carriageway. Going round a roundabout I noticed a police car come onto the road travelling in my direction. Now I was doing about 75 at this point, and the police car came right up behind me to the point where I couldn't see his headlights over my bootlid, so I braked slightly to 65, and he slowed down too, still right on my bumper. I then increased my speed to about 85....he didnt pull my over and stayed close behind me, still! I then braked to 70 and he sat very close (within the 2 second gap) behind me. At any time during this he could have over taken me, but didn't. This went on for about a mile, then all of a sudden he just accelerated away. When he was in front I roughly paced him in excess of 90mph!
My second incident was with the last week at around 3pm on a weekday (so busyish roads). I was travelling into Norwich on the dual carriageway, when a pack of cars (with a Police Focus at the front) pulled onto the road. I was only travelling at about 75. A van in this pack pulled straight out in front of me, causing me to brake heavily....I flashed my lights....did the copper see? DID HE FOOK!!! Anyway, after the van pulled into the slow lane, I continued at 75 and wasn't encroaching on the police car. I sped up and roughly paced him at 85. I was well back from the police car, but I wasn't very impressed with his driving! (Don't get me wrong, I'm no expert) But the policeman driving, while exceeding the speed limit with no real excuse, was changing lanes with no indication what-so-ever. He exited the dual carriageway on the same exit I needed. Upon heading into the city, the limit drops from a 60 to 40mph limit. I was just behind him, when he braked sharply from 65 to 40 when entering the limit.
Neither of the incidents caused any upset for myself or other drivers. I just think it's a bit bad for this kind of driving to be displayed on public roads, from the very people who are supposed to be setting an example.
Rant over!
Darren
>> Edited by iluvmercs on Saturday 20th May 20:37
There are duds in any organisation, and the police are no exception.
What kind of police officers drive Ford Focus there?
Also, do the police in the UK receive any driver training any part of their basic recruit training?
Here in Oz, all sworn officer recruits undertake a general duties driving course between 3 to 10 days in duration. This qualifies them to respond to high priority calls in excess of the speed limit, and initiate vehicle pursuits (although prolonged pursuits need to referred to specially-trained high-speed pursuit units). I was quite astonished to read that some officers in the UK are not exempted from speed limits, which made me question the level of driver training at recruit level.
What kind of police officers drive Ford Focus there?
Also, do the police in the UK receive any driver training any part of their basic recruit training?
Here in Oz, all sworn officer recruits undertake a general duties driving course between 3 to 10 days in duration. This qualifies them to respond to high priority calls in excess of the speed limit, and initiate vehicle pursuits (although prolonged pursuits need to referred to specially-trained high-speed pursuit units). I was quite astonished to read that some officers in the UK are not exempted from speed limits, which made me question the level of driver training at recruit level.
As has been said, you always get duds.
Constables must pass a Basic Driving Assessment to use police vehicles, but these are restricted to low-powered stuff like the Focus. It's really just a test, no training, and as such there is no authority to break speed limits/jump lights/pull cars/use lights & siren.
Above that there is training available to allow the above, plus pursuits etc - there are several levels of training for this.
Constables must pass a Basic Driving Assessment to use police vehicles, but these are restricted to low-powered stuff like the Focus. It's really just a test, no training, and as such there is no authority to break speed limits/jump lights/pull cars/use lights & siren.
Above that there is training available to allow the above, plus pursuits etc - there are several levels of training for this.
To drive our focuses (focii) all officers have a four week driving course which used to be called a 'response' course. It enables drivers to use all emergency equipment, respond to emergency jobs etc etc.
If our lot haven't had the 4 week course, they don't drive. Simple as that.
I know some forces have an A to B driver type course, which is what cso's and very junior pc's take to enable them to go to premises to take statements etc, but obviously the car is being used simply as a mode of transport rather than an emergency vehicle. I can't comment on other forces policies, but I agree with ours.
imo if you drive a police vehicle, you should do your best to set an example - but yes, we aren't superhuman, mistakes can be made, but it's nice to have the correct training to minimise these mistakes.
>> Edited by silverback mike on Sunday 21st May 10:23
If our lot haven't had the 4 week course, they don't drive. Simple as that.
I know some forces have an A to B driver type course, which is what cso's and very junior pc's take to enable them to go to premises to take statements etc, but obviously the car is being used simply as a mode of transport rather than an emergency vehicle. I can't comment on other forces policies, but I agree with ours.
imo if you drive a police vehicle, you should do your best to set an example - but yes, we aren't superhuman, mistakes can be made, but it's nice to have the correct training to minimise these mistakes.
>> Edited by silverback mike on Sunday 21st May 10:23
Re. the first point about the Police car coming close behind and sitting there, I had the same thing on the dual carriageway from Dereham to Norwich, about midnight, only car on the road (had a 205gti at that point) and the cop came right up behind, sat an inch from the rear bumper, then dropped back, then close again etc.. until the dual carriageway ran out, where he did a u-turn around the centre reservation and went back the other way.
I suppose he expected me to take the challenge and floor it, but seeing as I'd passed him as he pulled slowly out of a layby from where he'd pulled another car, I knew it was a police car. In fact it should be pretty obvious to anyone, passing a Police car (lit up from behind) at night, so I guess some people must be completely blind not to have noticed.
I was doing 60 all the time. Having a police car try to intimidate me into breaking the law reduced my respect for the Police.
A couple of years ago (having moved up north) some muppet young police officer (in a Focus
) managed to crash in front of us coming to a roundabout, on an almost straight piece of road. He was behind, suddenly floored it, shot past, misjudged the roundabout's distance, locked up and slid straight into the armco. We stopped and he sheepishly declined help from the 2 women on board! Very amusing at the time, but slightly worrying if you think about his apparent complete lack of both car control and reading the road.
I suppose he expected me to take the challenge and floor it, but seeing as I'd passed him as he pulled slowly out of a layby from where he'd pulled another car, I knew it was a police car. In fact it should be pretty obvious to anyone, passing a Police car (lit up from behind) at night, so I guess some people must be completely blind not to have noticed.
I was doing 60 all the time. Having a police car try to intimidate me into breaking the law reduced my respect for the Police.
A couple of years ago (having moved up north) some muppet young police officer (in a Focus
) managed to crash in front of us coming to a roundabout, on an almost straight piece of road. He was behind, suddenly floored it, shot past, misjudged the roundabout's distance, locked up and slid straight into the armco. We stopped and he sheepishly declined help from the 2 women on board! Very amusing at the time, but slightly worrying if you think about his apparent complete lack of both car control and reading the road.jimsupersix said:
I was doing 60 all the time. Having a police car try to intimidate me into breaking the law reduced my respect for the Police.
There have been several posts on SPL about this, apparently the line taken is that BiB get so close to take a look at you in your mirrors. Frankly that's a feeble excuse, and no reason to take such a risk - the suspicion has to be that they're seeing if you'll go for it regardless of who you are, on the basis that when you are eventually stopped they'll nick you if you're already wanted and nick you for speeding otherwise. BiB have sat on my back bumper for well over a mile at 70mph on a number of occasions, impossible to see headlights never mind number plate...brake and they'll think you're brake testing them (if they don't hit you that is), speed up to get a safe distance and you're breaking the limit. On one occasion they overtook in a 30 at speed, cut me up pulling back in too sharp, then slowed to 25 for half a mile. Why? No excuse for any of it.
7db said:Yes uncomfortable, but which case isn't hard?!
Sounds like a horrible situation TB.
Gently lift off. Take VRM / identifying numbers. Call the inspector.
Not hard.
When being followed like that there's a natural tendency to lift a tad (and I speak for myself there) as I'd know it was marked or unmarked BiB and I would be expecting the lights at any minute...but then I don't want a plodcar up my stainless steel exhausts. When the lights don't come on within a reasonable period of time, then for me, there's a tendency to make damn sure you don't exceed the speed limit - so this combination puts you in a stalemate situation. When they do decide the game is over it usually ends with a sharp golf lima foxtrot into the distance and all that's left is to breathe easy rather than try desperately to remember the number.
As for the buggeration factor of being cut up and then held up, there were two in the panda car and me in mine, I wouldn't think anything could come of it, and I'd rather not go and complain over something I can handle, it's annoying but I genuinely just accept it and carry on.
I have complained only once, as the victim of a comedy duo attempting to pervert the course of justice, but even then was satisfied with the bull5h1t charges against me being dropped and a tacit nfa against the two prats involved. It might surprise some but I have no complaints against most front line BiB and even the very few d1ckheads like those described won't change that. Live and let live where possible.
turbobloke said:
have no complaints against most front line BiB and even the very few d1ckheads like those described won't change that. Live and let live where possible.
I agree here. Front line BiB have so much crap to deal with, without me adding to their hassle. Not to mention it wouldn't benefit either party if I was an a*rse to them. Whenever I've got pulled over, its a matter of being civil with them, as they're only doing a job.
Its just to have a rant every now and again
Darren
7db said:
Call the duty inspector and have a word.
Pointless I'm afraid. The job is no longer like that, where Supervisors can dish out bollockings willy nilly, and quite rightly so in my opinion.
I've actually been in the situation where a Superintendant of all people took issue with my driving. He thought i was "going too fast" on the way to a call (he hadn't actually even bothered to find out what call i was going to, which was in fact a man attacking members of the public, with a pitch fork of all things! God knows where he'd got it form!) Anyway, he made a call to my Supervisor, asking me to meet him the next day for some sort of 'talking to'. "Fine" i said, "in that case i'd like the IDR (black box) from my vehicle downloaded right now. I'd also like a Fed Red to accompany me and for the meeting to be recorded, and for the cctv covering the area to be seized and viewed". Funnily enough, never heard anything more, and the meeting never took place.....
What I'm saying is, one persons idea of terrible driving will differ greatly from the next....
3 inches? Really? Or did he just seem too close and it's now turned into 3 inches? I've seen terrible driving from all sorts of people who should know better, but yet again we have thread on PH about peoples experience of 'terrible' Police driving. Why? What do these threads achieve?
Hollywood Wheels said:It must seem that way HW. And OK 3 inches isn't fair to accuse any BiB of, size matters
3 inches? Really? Or did he just seem too close and it's now turned into 3 inches? I've seen terrible driving from all sorts of people who should know better, but yet again we have thread on PH about peoples experience of 'terrible' Police driving. Why? What do these threads achieve?
What a lot of us MoPs would like to know is - why? Several people seem to have a common experience of this. But three feet or so not three inches, close enough to make the headlights too low to be seen at night. Is it really that the biB in the following car want to see in the mirrors to get a look at the driver, so follow as closely as possible? If so is it worth the risk? If not why else does it happen? Could it possibly be provocation?
For a lot of folk on here it seems to be a genuine question, wanting to know why, not BiB bashing
iluvmercs said:
Why? What do these threads achieve?
I just wanted to rant.....you need a good moan from time to time
Darren
No probs Darren, your post was taken in the manner intended, made a nice change to the pointless angry whinges we get here from time to time...Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff