High mileage 964
Discussion
Hello all,
Sorry to cover old ground again but I thought I might as well ask the question myself!
I have spent the last few weeks (months, years) pondering my first Porsche buy. Budget has varied from week to week but is currently £15k / £17k. Car needs to be sturdy enough to withstand maybe 6k miles per year as a second car hence I started off by considering a 5ish year old Boxster 2.7.
Soon got bored of this idea however (courtesy in part to over-researching the RMS stuff and scaring myself) and decided that I may as well get straight to the point and go for a 911.
It appears as though a 993 (my absolute fave) is out of the question for at least another year, but I quite fancy the idea of running a 964 for a year or two before trading up.
So to the point. If I want a 964 I have a price limit of about £15k in order to leave a couple of grand in reserve in case of emergencies (don't really fancy LHD). For this money I've seen some clean looking examples but many seem to have very high mileages (130k plus such as this nice looking one I spotted in the classifieds www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/74344.htm).
Based on experience, does anyone reckon I would be better off stretching a bit further for a car with less than 100k (a psychological hurdle for me), or should I not be scared of a high miler so long as I'm prepared to spend on its upkeep?
Sorry to cover old ground again but I thought I might as well ask the question myself!
I have spent the last few weeks (months, years) pondering my first Porsche buy. Budget has varied from week to week but is currently £15k / £17k. Car needs to be sturdy enough to withstand maybe 6k miles per year as a second car hence I started off by considering a 5ish year old Boxster 2.7.
Soon got bored of this idea however (courtesy in part to over-researching the RMS stuff and scaring myself) and decided that I may as well get straight to the point and go for a 911.
It appears as though a 993 (my absolute fave) is out of the question for at least another year, but I quite fancy the idea of running a 964 for a year or two before trading up.
So to the point. If I want a 964 I have a price limit of about £15k in order to leave a couple of grand in reserve in case of emergencies (don't really fancy LHD). For this money I've seen some clean looking examples but many seem to have very high mileages (130k plus such as this nice looking one I spotted in the classifieds www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/74344.htm).
Based on experience, does anyone reckon I would be better off stretching a bit further for a car with less than 100k (a psychological hurdle for me), or should I not be scared of a high miler so long as I'm prepared to spend on its upkeep?
I was toying with a higher mileage 964 before deciding against it. 165k miles to be exact.It was only £10.5k,and on the face of being in decent condition,it needed potentially a fair bit of money chucking at it. It had the top end rebuild and clutch change but at the 100k mark,the carpets were pretty shagged and the drivers seat needed a retrim. Also a wee bit of rust under the headlights too.......
Trouble being, you don't want a high miler in ropey condition even though its cheap, otherwise will end up spending what you should have spent on a better car......
IMO, mileage wise, you either should buy something with well over the 100 k mark -110 upwards, or somthing beneath 85k. My opinion is that antyhing you buy with just under the hundred you will be paying a higher price for,same as for just over the hundred(pro-rata). However when the mileage is higher it has already hit its next depreciation loss....
As ever though, condition counts for a lot........
Trouble being, you don't want a high miler in ropey condition even though its cheap, otherwise will end up spending what you should have spent on a better car......
IMO, mileage wise, you either should buy something with well over the 100 k mark -110 upwards, or somthing beneath 85k. My opinion is that antyhing you buy with just under the hundred you will be paying a higher price for,same as for just over the hundred(pro-rata). However when the mileage is higher it has already hit its next depreciation loss....
As ever though, condition counts for a lot........
Paul, just my opinion, but if you're shying away from buying a Boxster due to RMS problems, maybe a 964 isn't the car for you either.
There are good high mileage examples out there that have had lots of money thrown at them, but their owners will want to see a good return for the financial outlay made to keep one of these cars in tip top condition.
Thus if you find a cheap car it may well need expensive rectification of various faults.
Unless you are a very familiar with the 964 model, it is imperative you have a full and thorough inspection carried out by a specialist before purchase (this will also give you bargaining power to reduce the price should any of the faults be major)
The car you have expressed in interest in does appear to have had all the major items overhauled/replaced, but I would still have it inspected to ensure there are no nasty surprises !
I'd suggest you have a decent test drive of a 964 before setting your heart on one. Like any 911 they can be an aquired taste and you may find the Boxster fills your requirements better ?
Beware though, once you've driven a 911 there may be no turning back !
Good luck !
>> Edited by slippydiff on Sunday 21st May 23:36
There are good high mileage examples out there that have had lots of money thrown at them, but their owners will want to see a good return for the financial outlay made to keep one of these cars in tip top condition.
Thus if you find a cheap car it may well need expensive rectification of various faults.
Unless you are a very familiar with the 964 model, it is imperative you have a full and thorough inspection carried out by a specialist before purchase (this will also give you bargaining power to reduce the price should any of the faults be major)
The car you have expressed in interest in does appear to have had all the major items overhauled/replaced, but I would still have it inspected to ensure there are no nasty surprises !
I'd suggest you have a decent test drive of a 964 before setting your heart on one. Like any 911 they can be an aquired taste and you may find the Boxster fills your requirements better ?
Beware though, once you've driven a 911 there may be no turning back !
Good luck !
>> Edited by slippydiff on Sunday 21st May 23:36
Guys, thanks for the advice
Point taken re: the Boxster RMS stuff. To elaborate on my reasons for deciding against one, I am also mindful of the fact that a Boxster is likely to depreciate more over the course of the next 12 to 18 months than a decent 964 (and I need the car to retain as much value as possible to make it easier to trade up to a 993 as and when). That and the fact that I just fancy a 911!
Ultimately I guess the thing to do (as you rightly suggest) is to invest time in finding a nice 964 that has had most of the big work done fairly recently and budget a couple of grand on top for contingencies.
As an aside, does anyone have any experience of using Strasse in Leeds (my neck of the woods) for initial inspections on prospective buys?
Point taken re: the Boxster RMS stuff. To elaborate on my reasons for deciding against one, I am also mindful of the fact that a Boxster is likely to depreciate more over the course of the next 12 to 18 months than a decent 964 (and I need the car to retain as much value as possible to make it easier to trade up to a 993 as and when). That and the fact that I just fancy a 911!
Ultimately I guess the thing to do (as you rightly suggest) is to invest time in finding a nice 964 that has had most of the big work done fairly recently and budget a couple of grand on top for contingencies.
As an aside, does anyone have any experience of using Strasse in Leeds (my neck of the woods) for initial inspections on prospective buys?
few points.
First if you get a good 964 (and you dont want a bad one) then I doubt you would change to a 993, yes they look nicer but you don't gain a lot otherwise and a big jump in price.
Second consider LHD, it really is not a problem, nearly all the Porsche's that pass through our hands are LHD and I prefer them to RHD, in the 964 as with all 911's (not 996) you get more leg room in LHD for a start, overtaking is not a problem, parking is easier as you just get out on to the kerb, the ONLY problem is car parks with ticket machines but leaning over isn't that much of a hardship to save a couple of thou is it? Also it is much easier to drive a LHD in this country than a RHD abroad, take that in to consideration if you spend much of your time abroad like me.
Third what is this obsession with low mileage cars in this country? 100k as you put it is a massive pschological barrier. 964's are now 12 yrs plus old, nearly all of them will have 100k or more on, dont look for low mileage look for the right car, top end rebuild, and if not have a leakdown test done, clutch recently, good matching tyres, brakes done, no corrosion, good interior, all these are available for your budget.
And most vitally get someone who knows 964's to check it out. If your in the north get in contact with me and we can arrange an inspection for you.
First if you get a good 964 (and you dont want a bad one) then I doubt you would change to a 993, yes they look nicer but you don't gain a lot otherwise and a big jump in price.
Second consider LHD, it really is not a problem, nearly all the Porsche's that pass through our hands are LHD and I prefer them to RHD, in the 964 as with all 911's (not 996) you get more leg room in LHD for a start, overtaking is not a problem, parking is easier as you just get out on to the kerb, the ONLY problem is car parks with ticket machines but leaning over isn't that much of a hardship to save a couple of thou is it? Also it is much easier to drive a LHD in this country than a RHD abroad, take that in to consideration if you spend much of your time abroad like me.
Third what is this obsession with low mileage cars in this country? 100k as you put it is a massive pschological barrier. 964's are now 12 yrs plus old, nearly all of them will have 100k or more on, dont look for low mileage look for the right car, top end rebuild, and if not have a leakdown test done, clutch recently, good matching tyres, brakes done, no corrosion, good interior, all these are available for your budget.
And most vitally get someone who knows 964's to check it out. If your in the north get in contact with me and we can arrange an inspection for you.
[quote=wildoliver]few points.
Second consider LHD, it really is not a problem, nearly all the Porsche's that pass through our hands are LHD and I prefer them to RHD, in the 964 as with all 911's (not 996) you get more leg room in LHD for a start, overtaking is not a problem, parking is easier as you just get out on to the kerb, the ONLY problem is car parks with ticket machines but leaning over isn't that much of a hardship to save a couple of thou is it? Also it is much easier to drive a LHD in this country than a RHD abroad, take that in to consideration if you spend much of your time abroad like me.
Re wildoliver - that's interesting. i come from LHD land but have been living (not driving though...) in the UK for the past 4 years. as i'm just about to buy my first 911 i was thinking that RHD was more or less essential to have fun on the road here (thinking about overtaking on country lanes, etc...)
from what you say LHD does not seem to be an issue...?
>> Edited by freemax on Monday 22 May 13:35
Second consider LHD, it really is not a problem, nearly all the Porsche's that pass through our hands are LHD and I prefer them to RHD, in the 964 as with all 911's (not 996) you get more leg room in LHD for a start, overtaking is not a problem, parking is easier as you just get out on to the kerb, the ONLY problem is car parks with ticket machines but leaning over isn't that much of a hardship to save a couple of thou is it? Also it is much easier to drive a LHD in this country than a RHD abroad, take that in to consideration if you spend much of your time abroad like me.
Re wildoliver - that's interesting. i come from LHD land but have been living (not driving though...) in the UK for the past 4 years. as i'm just about to buy my first 911 i was thinking that RHD was more or less essential to have fun on the road here (thinking about overtaking on country lanes, etc...)
from what you say LHD does not seem to be an issue...?
>> Edited by freemax on Monday 22 May 13:35
Bob - Rochdale is my girlfriend's hometown so it sounds like we may end up seeing the same cars!
Oliver - thanks for the input. LHD is tempting for cost reasons, but would have to give it a try on the open road. Probably less of an issue on the M62 than it would be on some of the country lanes near home.
I think that the deciding factor will be how recently any or all of the major jobs have been undertaken (clutch and the like) and hence how long I may be able to expect to go without having to fork out for same myself. I'm not afraid of spending a few quid on upkeep etc but would rather let someone else do it.
As I mentioned I'm based in Leeds so I may give you a bell to discuss if that's ok?
Oliver - thanks for the input. LHD is tempting for cost reasons, but would have to give it a try on the open road. Probably less of an issue on the M62 than it would be on some of the country lanes near home.
I think that the deciding factor will be how recently any or all of the major jobs have been undertaken (clutch and the like) and hence how long I may be able to expect to go without having to fork out for same myself. I'm not afraid of spending a few quid on upkeep etc but would rather let someone else do it.
As I mentioned I'm based in Leeds so I may give you a bell to discuss if that's ok?
Guys LHD really is a non issue, I have had mine for about a year and it really makes next to no difference.
You sometimes have to take a bit more overtaking on country roads, but really only with trucks etc....
I find that I can swap between the 911 and the mondeo without really noticing the difference.
I also agree with not worrying about the mileage, just get a good condition, mileage doesn't reflect the true state of the car. Is more important how the owner has looked after it.
I can garauntee one thing though, once you have one you will never want to get rid of it, absolutly huge grin factor
You sometimes have to take a bit more overtaking on country roads, but really only with trucks etc....
I find that I can swap between the 911 and the mondeo without really noticing the difference.
I also agree with not worrying about the mileage, just get a good condition, mileage doesn't reflect the true state of the car. Is more important how the owner has looked after it.
I can garauntee one thing though, once you have one you will never want to get rid of it, absolutly huge grin factor
It has to be said that I quite enjoy driving hire cars on the continent so LHD not a problem per se. One related question though - has anyone with an LHD 911 got any experience of getting insurance sorted. Does LHD make it any trickier? So far I've had a quote from Lancaster (who used to insure my old XJ6 and 535i) for about £900 and a couple of wacky efforts from others that were about double that.
My best quotes so far have come from Priviledge Insurance
www.privilege.com
36 with full NCB but no garage - about £700 for a 964 with a cat 1 Alarm (doing 12K per annum) and about £550 for a boxster with a tracker fitted.
If I had a garage the 964 could go on Classic insurance (probably with Peart Asociates) for buttons. (£300-£400 I believe)
I'm still looking for better prices though.
Bob.
www.privilege.com
36 with full NCB but no garage - about £700 for a 964 with a cat 1 Alarm (doing 12K per annum) and about £550 for a boxster with a tracker fitted.
If I had a garage the 964 could go on Classic insurance (probably with Peart Asociates) for buttons. (£300-£400 I believe)
I'm still looking for better prices though.
Bob.
If you are going to be on classic insurance, well worth looking at RH Specialist www.rhclassicinsurance.co.uk/ just renewed mine for £325. They don't appear to care about mods etc, could even get a turbo on at the same price.
36 + wife, policy doesn't require no claims, garaged, Thatcham Cat 1, York!
>> Edited by supersport on Monday 22 May 17:00
36 + wife, policy doesn't require no claims, garaged, Thatcham Cat 1, York!
>> Edited by supersport on Monday 22 May 17:00
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