GETRAG vs. G50
Discussion
I am a bit confused as to which gear box to buy when I order the parts later this year. I know the GETRAG was used by the Toyota Supra TT and the Skyline GTR, and they are very respectable machines. I have heard of Supras that can reach speeds in excess of 200 mph if the engine is tuned properly. But the G50 is taken from a Porsche, one of the fastest cars on the planet!! I think there are variations like G50/50 is a five speed, and the G50/52 is a six speed(if I am wrong please correct me). Which gear box is better for performance and reliability for such a high horsepower engine? Which gearbox feels better when shifting? Does it make a difference since they are both made for high performance vehicles? 
UltimaLover,
There is a thread somewhere out there that addresses all this (with a link to Stigs life and times of the G50
). Try a search.
I think that the conclusion was that the Getrag is as robust as a G50 5 speed, so if you want a new gearbox then go for the Getrag (no real option), but if you're prepared to go the reconditioned route, then save yourself a couple of k and go the G50 route.
No-one posted that they needed 6 gears
.
Edit - it was one of your threads, so you are possibly after more info
. It's here anyway.
Sorry mate.
>> Edited by daydreamer on Thursday 23 January 19:27
There is a thread somewhere out there that addresses all this (with a link to Stigs life and times of the G50
). Try a search. I think that the conclusion was that the Getrag is as robust as a G50 5 speed, so if you want a new gearbox then go for the Getrag (no real option), but if you're prepared to go the reconditioned route, then save yourself a couple of k and go the G50 route.
No-one posted that they needed 6 gears
. Edit - it was one of your threads, so you are possibly after more info
. It's here anyway. Sorry mate.
>> Edited by daydreamer on Thursday 23 January 19:27
The Getrag is also used in Porsches, it is a brand new design and has nothing/very little in common with the boxes used in the Jap machines (same manufacturer) Porsche got Getrag to design the box for their new 911 (the 996 water cooled car)
***Of course the normal disclaimer applies - I may be talking bollox**
***Of course the normal disclaimer applies - I may be talking bollox**
Seeing as this is a reoccuring thread, if you look at the top menu bar for the forum in 'Show Faqs' you'll find all the info you need.
As has been said, both are up to the job, but you'll pay a couple of grand more for the Getrag. The centre shift with the housing does look very good though.
As has been said, both are up to the job, but you'll pay a couple of grand more for the Getrag. The centre shift with the housing does look very good though.
It'll all depend on your engine and the type of car and driving style you like.
Some cars have lower gearing and it can be very rewarding going up and down the gears, making that chevy work.
My car has very high gearing and it suits my engine and personel driving preferences perfectly, however on a dry sunny day I can still wheelspin up to 100mph (my speed sensor is on the front wheel!).
The factory can-am demo cars have the cable gearchange and it was luvely... if you want a gearchange like a Porsche Boxter the Getrac is the one to go for.
Your final decision should also be effected by the level of power you want, start going up above 600bhp and I think you are on the boundaries of any standard box and you will need internal mods.
If this is the case (and by previous threads it sounds very possible) I think you should speak to the Porsche racers who know a thing or two about the mods needed to reliably cope with silly power.
>> Edited by ultimaandy on Thursday 23 January 22:19
Some cars have lower gearing and it can be very rewarding going up and down the gears, making that chevy work.
My car has very high gearing and it suits my engine and personel driving preferences perfectly, however on a dry sunny day I can still wheelspin up to 100mph (my speed sensor is on the front wheel!).
The factory can-am demo cars have the cable gearchange and it was luvely... if you want a gearchange like a Porsche Boxter the Getrac is the one to go for.
Your final decision should also be effected by the level of power you want, start going up above 600bhp and I think you are on the boundaries of any standard box and you will need internal mods.
If this is the case (and by previous threads it sounds very possible
) I think you should speak to the Porsche racers who know a thing or two about the mods needed to reliably cope with silly power. >> Edited by ultimaandy on Thursday 23 January 22:19
Whichever gearbox you go for, just make sure that you choose the correct ratios to go with the power band of the engine. There's no point in having a close ratio box on a car with a wide power band, or widely spaced gears on a narrow power band.
I improved the performance of my TVR Cerbera by getting a gearbox with the correct ratios for the engine from Glebe Engineering. The standard box is the same as fitted to the Griffith and Chimaera, which have very different power delivery. The closer ratio's Glebe supplied made the car a lot quicker, and more pleasant to drive.
Whatever you go for, it's going to be a lot nicer than the Renault box I have in my Mk4. That can be a real pig. I haven't driven a car with either of the Porsche boxes in, but from what I hear, the days of clunky gearchanges and missed gears is well and truly over.
I was talking to Ted at the factory recently about the supposed unreliability of the G50 when you start putting huge power through it. He told me that in 18 years he's never had one back, and some people have put a lot of power through them. I suppose that it's quite possible that somebody might have done it and not have told him, but has anybody else actually heard of a Porsche gearbox blowing up in an Ultima? I know that I haven't, and I've heard of people doing some pretty brutal things to them (like taking them to Santa Pod).
James
I improved the performance of my TVR Cerbera by getting a gearbox with the correct ratios for the engine from Glebe Engineering. The standard box is the same as fitted to the Griffith and Chimaera, which have very different power delivery. The closer ratio's Glebe supplied made the car a lot quicker, and more pleasant to drive.
Whatever you go for, it's going to be a lot nicer than the Renault box I have in my Mk4. That can be a real pig. I haven't driven a car with either of the Porsche boxes in, but from what I hear, the days of clunky gearchanges and missed gears is well and truly over.
I was talking to Ted at the factory recently about the supposed unreliability of the G50 when you start putting huge power through it. He told me that in 18 years he's never had one back, and some people have put a lot of power through them. I suppose that it's quite possible that somebody might have done it and not have told him, but has anybody else actually heard of a Porsche gearbox blowing up in an Ultima? I know that I haven't, and I've heard of people doing some pretty brutal things to them (like taking them to Santa Pod).
James
Well, it can happen but it would be unfair to blame the factory. Porsche made it after all 
There's obviously an element of risk when buying a recon 'box I suppose, as there's no way of knowing how well it was treated in the past.
Mine wasn't bought from Ultima and if it goes bang, it goes bang. Shit happens
The long and short (box?) of it is, the G50 and the Getrag are tried and tested and work well - although, general concensus seems to be that the 5 speed G50 have ratios best suited to the lazy power of the Chevy (but they're like hens teeth to get).
The linkages are sound whether central/side or rod/cable and as I said earlier, the Getrag's centrally mounted gearlever really does look fantastic (though I prefer the 'race' look of the side mount).
As far as power ratings go, mounting the 'box upside down actually immerses the gear cluster in the oil (which was as it was originally designed to do) so can happily take the extra welly that the Chevy punts out.
Finally, I'd say that any 'slop' in the gearchange has more to do with how well you install it than anything.
There's obviously an element of risk when buying a recon 'box I suppose, as there's no way of knowing how well it was treated in the past.
Mine wasn't bought from Ultima and if it goes bang, it goes bang. Shit happens
The long and short (box?) of it is, the G50 and the Getrag are tried and tested and work well - although, general concensus seems to be that the 5 speed G50 have ratios best suited to the lazy power of the Chevy (but they're like hens teeth to get).
The linkages are sound whether central/side or rod/cable and as I said earlier, the Getrag's centrally mounted gearlever really does look fantastic (though I prefer the 'race' look of the side mount).
As far as power ratings go, mounting the 'box upside down actually immerses the gear cluster in the oil (which was as it was originally designed to do) so can happily take the extra welly that the Chevy punts out.
Finally, I'd say that any 'slop' in the gearchange has more to do with how well you install it than anything.
Couldn't agree more with the shit happens rule, but it still makes you whince when £3500.00 worth of "new" box turns itself inside out!
The good news is i've rebuilt the box with quaife internals and is now sat on the bench ready for install. The second hand box that is currently fitted and cost less than a third of the original is still going strong after several thousand miles and several track days.
The good news is i've rebuilt the box with quaife internals and is now sat on the bench ready for install. The second hand box that is currently fitted and cost less than a third of the original is still going strong after several thousand miles and several track days.
Well I knew of three that have gone bang, two were under 500bhp and one was just over 500Bhp, I now know of a fourth....B1 ECC.
Gearbox are similar to engines in that it is easy to speculate on why they failed without knowing any facts.
Of the above failures one was definatelly Out of date, one was seriously abused and I'm not going to speculate about B1's reason for failure.
Lets keep this in context though, a lambo box and clutch would never take the abuse that the Porsche box and clutch does in an Ultima. Remember a Lambo clutch alone is £4000 fitted!
The Porsche gearboxs offer enough flexibility for any Ultima, and if anyone is really worried a few internal mods can make them cope with most Ultima owners demands, as I think B1 ECC has proved.
Gearbox are similar to engines in that it is easy to speculate on why they failed without knowing any facts.
Of the above failures one was definatelly Out of date, one was seriously abused and I'm not going to speculate about B1's reason for failure.
Lets keep this in context though, a lambo box and clutch would never take the abuse that the Porsche box and clutch does in an Ultima. Remember a Lambo clutch alone is £4000 fitted!
The Porsche gearboxs offer enough flexibility for any Ultima, and if anyone is really worried a few internal mods can make them cope with most Ultima owners demands, as I think B1 ECC has proved.
ultimaandy said: Well I knew of three that have gone bang, two were under 500bhp and one was just over 500Bhp, I now know of a fourth....B1 ECC.
Gearbox are similar to engines in that it is easy to speculate on why they failed without knowing any facts.
Of the above failures one was definatelly Out of date, one was seriously abused and I'm not going to speculate about B1's reason for failure.
Lets keep this in context though, a lambo box and clutch would never take the abuse that the Porsche box and clutch does in an Ultima. Remember a Lambo clutch alone is £4000 fitted!
The Porsche gearboxs offer enough flexibility for any Ultima, and if anyone is really worried a few internal mods can make them cope with most Ultima owners demands, as I think B1 ECC has proved.
Hear, hear!
And Paul, I'm not worried - just want to get the car on the road!!
ultimaandy said: Lets keep this in context though, a lambo box and clutch would never take the abuse that the Porsche box and clutch does in an Ultima. Remember a Lambo clutch alone is £4000 fitted!
When I test drove a Diablo, I was talkign to the sales reptile about the performance. He said that it would do 0-60 in 3.9 seconds. Then he added that it would do it once, and then it would need a new clutch. He told me that it's the weak point of the whole car, and it's a real pig of a job (he showed me one in the workshop that was in for a clutch, and the whole of the car seemed to be in bits).
It was nice to have such an honest sales bloke. But I didn't end up with a Diablo
James
james said:
ultimaandy said: Lets keep this in context though, a lambo box and clutch would never take the abuse that the Porsche box and clutch does in an Ultima. Remember a Lambo clutch alone is £4000 fitted!
When I test drove a Diablo, I was talkign to the sales reptile about the performance. He said that it would do 0-60 in 3.9 seconds. Then he added that it would do it once, and then it would need a new clutch. He told me that it's the weak point of the whole car, and it's a real pig of a job (he showed me one in the workshop that was in for a clutch, and the whole of the car seemed to be in bits).
It was nice to have such an honest sales bloke. But I didn't end up with a Diablo
James
Wow, the clutch breaks in the Diablo after one rocket launch? That's a pretty week ass car!! What if you install a triple plate clutch, would the same thing happen in a Diablo? By the way, sales reptile is pretty funny!!
>> Edited by ULTIMALOVER on Sunday 26th January 02:06
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