Discussion
Evening Gentlemen, or rather good morning!
Just bought my first wedge, Black '88 350i found it on here for sale in Kent.
I can't tell you how much I love it, even with the weather we've had recently!
Anyway, I've read a lot about brakes, both on here,in the wedge pages and in Steve Heath's book, to the point of total confusion!
I figure they were an option on my car anyway, and the original purchaser chose the 390 bonnet vents instead, it loses pace gently rather than stops!
It strikes me that putting the larger Granada estate calipers and vented discs on sounds like a very straightforward job and would surely make a good improvement, is this the case?
How much better are the four pot Princess calipers? I notice if using these calipers you need to split them and insert the widening kit from rally design. My Grandmother said, if she could give me one bit of advice it would be to not split your calipers, is this just an old wive's tale or sound advice? Or were we talking at crossed purposes?
Your views please
Andy
Just bought my first wedge, Black '88 350i found it on here for sale in Kent.
I can't tell you how much I love it, even with the weather we've had recently!
Anyway, I've read a lot about brakes, both on here,in the wedge pages and in Steve Heath's book, to the point of total confusion!
I figure they were an option on my car anyway, and the original purchaser chose the 390 bonnet vents instead, it loses pace gently rather than stops!
It strikes me that putting the larger Granada estate calipers and vented discs on sounds like a very straightforward job and would surely make a good improvement, is this the case?
How much better are the four pot Princess calipers? I notice if using these calipers you need to split them and insert the widening kit from rally design. My Grandmother said, if she could give me one bit of advice it would be to not split your calipers, is this just an old wive's tale or sound advice? Or were we talking at crossed purposes?
Your views please
Andy
Black350 said:
It strikes me that putting the larger Granada estate calipers and vented discs on sounds like a very straightforward job and would surely make a good improvement, is this the case?
Yes, straight swap for what you already have. Buy the grroved discs from RT racing instead of the standard vented discs.
Black350 said:
How much better are the four pot Princess calipers? I notice if using these calipers you need to split them and insert the widening kit from rally design. My Grandmother said, if she could give me one bit of advice it would be to not split your calipers, is this just an old wive's tale or sound advice? Or were we talking at crossed purposes?
By all accounts they should give a much better feel and more power. No problem with splitting the calipers to fit the spavers. Finding the Princess calipers in the first place may be difficult though. I do seem to recall someone on here saying that someone is starting to remanufacture them.
You should also look to fit stainless braided hoses to stop hose flex. On mine I've also changed the master cylinder to a Ford Mondeo(IIRC) one that has a slightly bigger bore to reduce the pedal travel. This requires turning the servo through 90° which is easy enough, and adding a spacer for the fixings, again not difficult and I have a drawing for it.
Hope this helps and welcome to Wedging.
Hi,
Thanks for that!
I think I've found some recon Princess calipers at about £45 each + £15 surcharge, still can't make up my mind whether this route is worth the extra ag? Why are four pots so much better? Is it a greater pad area, more even pressure or what that makes them better than twin pots?
I found two rubber dustbin lids behind my wheels this morning, with smoke billowing out round them. I think they'll have to go!
Andy
Thanks for that!
I think I've found some recon Princess calipers at about £45 each + £15 surcharge, still can't make up my mind whether this route is worth the extra ag? Why are four pots so much better? Is it a greater pad area, more even pressure or what that makes them better than twin pots?
I found two rubber dustbin lids behind my wheels this morning, with smoke billowing out round them. I think they'll have to go!
Andy
Rally Design no longer do the 10mm widening kit that you'd need to make the Princess calipers fit the vented discs. They do an 8mm set but that's no help.
The 390SE runs the vented setup and it's just about adequate unless you want to stop with any sense of urgency. I've had them fade to nothing on a trackday and a couple of times on the road when having fun
I've been in the process of modding a Princess set for the last 18 months, ended up making my own spacers, but the things are still a pile of bits.
The 390SE runs the vented setup and it's just about adequate unless you want to stop with any sense of urgency. I've had them fade to nothing on a trackday and a couple of times on the road when having fun
I've been in the process of modding a Princess set for the last 18 months, ended up making my own spacers, but the things are still a pile of bits.
If you've just bought the car it might be that the previous owner didn't use it much or was very light on the brakes. I have found that after a month or two non-use the brakes are pretty poor, they stop but without much of a hurry.
Give it a few weeks with some hefty braking and you'll probably find they'll come to you. Cost: nowt.
Give it a few weeks with some hefty braking and you'll probably find they'll come to you. Cost: nowt.
Tallbloke used the Works Motorsport kit, not the Hispec.
Keri at WMS no longer does the Wedge kit due to lack of demand, which is a pity cos they're a damn nice bit of kit. I'm sure he could be pursuaded to do a run of 10 or so if there was a proven demand.
The Princess kit isnt a direct swap, it needs a bigger offset in the disc, I ended machining about 1,5mm off the face of the mounts to line things up instead becasue I wasnt aware at the timethat the different disc existed.
Regards
Iain
Keri at WMS no longer does the Wedge kit due to lack of demand, which is a pity cos they're a damn nice bit of kit. I'm sure he could be pursuaded to do a run of 10 or so if there was a proven demand.
The Princess kit isnt a direct swap, it needs a bigger offset in the disc, I ended machining about 1,5mm off the face of the mounts to line things up instead becasue I wasnt aware at the timethat the different disc existed.
Regards
Iain
rev-erend said:
I think the Hi Spec kit would be a better buy.
Look at tallbloke's profile - I'm sure he has a link for it.
Second that. Have them on my 350i (300mm 4-pot) and work very good, with braided hoses. They just fit within the 15" rim. Grooved only, not drilled (as that is not a good idea). When compared to the original granada non-vented setup: more feel, no fade (due to more material and better cooling). And that sums up sort of the benefits of vented + 4-pot. Brake pads, I either use Mintex or Green Stuff fast road type with my setup. In general the best upgrade I did.
Would like to add a tip: change to DOT 5.1 brake fluid as a replacement of the DOT 4.
Probably a brake fluid change will give you a lot better/improved breaking for next to nothing... (can't beat you there on no costs Adam).
Rob
I've had my wedge for 3 weeks, and the brakes are the only disappointing bit of the car. New front callipers and full set of pads already fitted just before I bought it. Renewed the fluid and got some air out of the rear, which improved things slightly, but they are still crap. Quite a fair bit of travel on the pedal, I'm thinking maybe the servo is duff or I need platform shoes 
Brakes:
I've sampled three different systems in the last 2 years, on the three different Wedge models I've owned.
1. Series 1 280i FHC, fitted with later vented discs, and 'standard' calipers, but also new steel braided brake lines. EXCELLENT, and inspired confidence.
2. Series 2 390SE, with standard brakes for that model. NOT GOOD! A real weakness on an otherwise lovely car.
3. My present 400SE, which has the 4-pot (Princess?) type calipers, just rebuilt, and braided steel lines. These are EXCELLENT.
I would recommend fitting the braided steel brake lines anyway, as they're not too dear,
and definately give a better feel, plus the safety factor. A good bleeding, and renewal of the fluid will probably work wonders too.
I've sampled three different systems in the last 2 years, on the three different Wedge models I've owned.
1. Series 1 280i FHC, fitted with later vented discs, and 'standard' calipers, but also new steel braided brake lines. EXCELLENT, and inspired confidence.
2. Series 2 390SE, with standard brakes for that model. NOT GOOD! A real weakness on an otherwise lovely car.
3. My present 400SE, which has the 4-pot (Princess?) type calipers, just rebuilt, and braided steel lines. These are EXCELLENT.
I would recommend fitting the braided steel brake lines anyway, as they're not too dear,
and definately give a better feel, plus the safety factor. A good bleeding, and renewal of the fluid will probably work wonders too.
FrenchTVR said:
Might be worth you having a look at this little number here
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4-Pot-Caliper-B
Superb Mike - been meaning to find that link..
Reading that ad' just reminded me that (in case any of the 280 guys are thinking of it), the
original early 14" Telcast wheels (as on TVR-NUT's car) will not fit over the vented discs, due to the extra width. My car had 14" compomotive cross spokes fitted, which had sufficient clearance. Perhaps 15 " wheels would be ok, but it just shows how things don't necessarily just bolt straight on.
>> Edited by grahamw48 on Wednesday 31st May 23:54
>> Edited by grahamw48 on Thursday 1st June 00:46
original early 14" Telcast wheels (as on TVR-NUT's car) will not fit over the vented discs, due to the extra width. My car had 14" compomotive cross spokes fitted, which had sufficient clearance. Perhaps 15 " wheels would be ok, but it just shows how things don't necessarily just bolt straight on.
>> Edited by grahamw48 on Wednesday 31st May 23:54
>> Edited by grahamw48 on Thursday 1st June 00:46
Just to say...at the bottom of a bottle of port...
The original 14" rims fit over the Princess calipers and vented discs, you're welcome to come round and inspect my car whenever is convinient.
I'll email Keri and ask for a sample to see if the WMS setup fits.
Regards
Iain
>> Edited by chassis 33 on Thursday 1st June 01:15
The original 14" rims fit over the Princess calipers and vented discs, you're welcome to come round and inspect my car whenever is convinient.
I'll email Keri and ask for a sample to see if the WMS setup fits.
Regards
Iain
>> Edited by chassis 33 on Thursday 1st June 01:15
Just to get my two pence worth in.
As mentioned by a few people, standard 390se brakes really crap. Therefore I replaced mine with the Tower View kit, which consisted of 300mm, cross drilled and vented discs, Princess calipers,C/W mounting brakets and braided hoses. Quite a bit of fiddling about to fit and the calipers do not sit centraly to the centre line of the disc.
I also had to adjust the rod from the servo to the master cylinder to get a good pedal.
Allan
As mentioned by a few people, standard 390se brakes really crap. Therefore I replaced mine with the Tower View kit, which consisted of 300mm, cross drilled and vented discs, Princess calipers,C/W mounting brakets and braided hoses. Quite a bit of fiddling about to fit and the calipers do not sit centraly to the centre line of the disc.
I also had to adjust the rod from the servo to the master cylinder to get a good pedal.
Allan
Ello chaps... :-)
The WMS/Taz kit situation at the moment is that I've just about run out of the initial Tasmin kit, I MIGHT have one set left - I'll have to check.
The next move is that I'm not going to re-stock this exact kit... Three reasons:
1 - Two of the kits sold (a small percentage....) have been annoying their owners by squealing rather a lot. This is a bit of a can of worms, but we're trying to sort it out - neither car had grooved discs where as most of the others did so I've supplied a set to see if the grooves do indeed break up the harmonic vibration in the pad/disc as they seem to. Watch this space...
2 - Economics: the kit sold too slowly to be able to stock it cost-effectively as the calipers were unique to the TVR Tasmin (the Cortina and Escort/Capri versions go like hotcakes in comparison).
3 - Future upgrades for the customer: The lack of brackets, while very neat, does mean you can't go "big disc" and keep your existing WMS calipers.
The result of all this is that I'm changing the design to use the same caliper as on a certain Chim racecar, on a bracket. This means (A) I can stock it! (B) it might cure the squealing, although the "bell" shaped disc really doesn't help matters and (C) I can evolve the kit to use 298.5mm or 310mm disc by supplying bells/rotors, taller brackets and wider caliper spacers/longer bolts to fit the 32mm thick rotors.
Phew, hope that clears things up a bit! Keri
The WMS/Taz kit situation at the moment is that I've just about run out of the initial Tasmin kit, I MIGHT have one set left - I'll have to check.
The next move is that I'm not going to re-stock this exact kit... Three reasons:
1 - Two of the kits sold (a small percentage....) have been annoying their owners by squealing rather a lot. This is a bit of a can of worms, but we're trying to sort it out - neither car had grooved discs where as most of the others did so I've supplied a set to see if the grooves do indeed break up the harmonic vibration in the pad/disc as they seem to. Watch this space...
2 - Economics: the kit sold too slowly to be able to stock it cost-effectively as the calipers were unique to the TVR Tasmin (the Cortina and Escort/Capri versions go like hotcakes in comparison).
3 - Future upgrades for the customer: The lack of brackets, while very neat, does mean you can't go "big disc" and keep your existing WMS calipers.
The result of all this is that I'm changing the design to use the same caliper as on a certain Chim racecar, on a bracket. This means (A) I can stock it! (B) it might cure the squealing, although the "bell" shaped disc really doesn't help matters and (C) I can evolve the kit to use 298.5mm or 310mm disc by supplying bells/rotors, taller brackets and wider caliper spacers/longer bolts to fit the 32mm thick rotors.
Phew, hope that clears things up a bit! Keri
keri said:
Ello chaps... :-)
The WMS/Taz kit situation at the moment is that I've just about run out of the initial Tasmin kit, I MIGHT have one set left - I'll have to check.
The next move is that I'm not going to re-stock this exact kit... Three reasons:
1 - Two of the kits sold (a small percentage....) have been annoying their owners by squealing rather a lot. This is a bit of a can of worms, but we're trying to sort it out - neither car had grooved discs where as most of the others did so I've supplied a set to see if the grooves do indeed break up the harmonic vibration in the pad/disc as they seem to. Watch this space...
2 - Economics: the kit sold too slowly to be able to stock it cost-effectively as the calipers were unique to the TVR Tasmin (the Cortina and Escort/Capri versions go like hotcakes in comparison).
3 - Future upgrades for the customer: The lack of brackets, while very neat, does mean you can't go "big disc" and keep your existing WMS calipers.
The result of all this is that I'm changing the design to use the same caliper as on a certain Chim racecar, on a bracket. This means (A) I can stock it! (B) it might cure the squealing, although the "bell" shaped disc really doesn't help matters and (C) I can evolve the kit to use 298.5mm or 310mm disc by supplying bells/rotors, taller brackets and wider caliper spacers/longer bolts to fit the 32mm thick rotors.
Phew, hope that clears things up a bit! Keri
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