help - court in four days
Discussion
Cought speeding on M5, doing 70 in a 50.
In a hire car that I booked the week earlier.
Trouble is, I cancelled the car the day before, someone else took it out and my details are still on the hirers log. When they got the letter, it was traced to me.
Don't want to plead not guilty, for fear of increasing punishment - but I can't prove I was elesewhere.
They don't keep signatures for that long (it was last august) all they have is a pfd of the original booking.
This is genuine - I'm about to be done for someone else's crime.... swine.
Any ideas?
In a hire car that I booked the week earlier.
Trouble is, I cancelled the car the day before, someone else took it out and my details are still on the hirers log. When they got the letter, it was traced to me.
Don't want to plead not guilty, for fear of increasing punishment - but I can't prove I was elesewhere.
They don't keep signatures for that long (it was last august) all they have is a pfd of the original booking.
This is genuine - I'm about to be done for someone else's crime.... swine.
Any ideas?
Holy mistaken identity batman.... The hire company say they don't keep the forms with signatures on - just a log of teh original booking that hapened over eth phone. Rather leads me to believe it was one of them to be honest. Proof is teh problem. Good idea about eth bank - I'll call them now.
Cheers. Quite funny actually, if you stay philosophical. Good pub story anyway.
Cheers. Quite funny actually, if you stay philosophical. Good pub story anyway.
Thought about it a bit more...
The hire company have NO PROOF that you had the car, that document is merely proof that a booking was made in your name over the phone.
Think about the day, you must have had contact with someone through work etc... Are you willing to take the stand and give a true verbal account of what happened? Can you call anyone as a witness who you would have seen at around the time of the offence? There's no way you should be convicted of something you didn't do.
The hire company have NO PROOF that you had the car, that document is merely proof that a booking was made in your name over the phone.
Think about the day, you must have had contact with someone through work etc... Are you willing to take the stand and give a true verbal account of what happened? Can you call anyone as a witness who you would have seen at around the time of the offence? There's no way you should be convicted of something you didn't do.
Are you saying that you booked a hire car, then you cancelled it and never actually turned up and took the car? Go to court and give them hell. If you had taken the car, they would have charged you for it and there would be a checking the car out & in sheet too, they should at least be required to show proof of that, if they cant, it would all fall apart wouldnt it?
See a solicitor and the media too, sounds like they could have a field day with this.
See a solicitor and the media too, sounds like they could have a field day with this.
BliarOut said:
Thought about it a bit more...
The hire company have NO PROOF that you had the car, that document is merely proof that a booking was made in your name over the phone.
In which case it can not be proved beyond reasonable doubt that you were the driver.
There rests the case for the defence m'lud.
I cant believe the hire co dont keep records,if they dont keep rental sigs i can be pretty certain that if you did hire the car you would have had to sign some insurance imdemnity forms and these will have been kept So any day a car is hired out a signature will be on an insurance form
Plead not guilty
Plead not guilty
You say you WERE CAUGHT SPEEDING??????????
Guilty?????
But then you go on to say vehicle involved was a Hire car down to you but not used at the time, date and place in question?
So CPS would send NOIP and 174 request to name driver to Hire Company who in turn advise CPS you were the named hirer at the time and date. This is not a useable admission that YOU WERE the driver onlyt that the car was according to their records in your possession. Presumably CPS then sent you the 174 request?.
You didn't sign it as the driver did you??????????????????????????????????????????
If not they are well up the spout in trying to identify the driver. Take on board the other comments, gloves off and have a scrap either by yourself but better with a Solicitor.
Presumed that the summons is for speeding. Is another charge fail to name driver also involved?
dvd
Guilty?????
But then you go on to say vehicle involved was a Hire car down to you but not used at the time, date and place in question?
So CPS would send NOIP and 174 request to name driver to Hire Company who in turn advise CPS you were the named hirer at the time and date. This is not a useable admission that YOU WERE the driver onlyt that the car was according to their records in your possession. Presumably CPS then sent you the 174 request?.
You didn't sign it as the driver did you??????????????????????????????????????????
If not they are well up the spout in trying to identify the driver. Take on board the other comments, gloves off and have a scrap either by yourself but better with a Solicitor.
Presumed that the summons is for speeding. Is another charge fail to name driver also involved?
dvd
Watch it with the solicitor thing.
Now, I don't have actual knowledge as such as to how these things work, but my expeirience was:
I went to court once to plead guilty to a motoring offence (tachograph). I didn't bother with a brief 'cos I was going to put my hand up. However, the duty solicitor had a chat with me, and said he could 'get me off'. So he acted on my behalf, the case dragged on for 9 months, was adjourned god knows how many times, and I didn't get to pay a penny for his costs. As he said to me the one time, "don't worry about my money, the taxpayer pays for me".
Eventualy I got a conditional discharge and £43 costs.
I reckon if you engage the duty solicitor he comes for free, but if you engage a brief yourself either you or the crown has to pay, depending on who wins.
But I definitely do think you must plead not guilty. Think about it, if you say you were driving the car and you weren't, you've commited perjury which could see you ending up in jail. You only get fines these days for killing people.
Also, I take it that if you've got to go to court, there was no 'conditional offer'. Therefore, they can't increase the punishment because you've pleaded not guilty. Defendants are allowed to plead not guilty, they can't be punished for doing so. (That was what I was told, anyway. My case was approx 2-3 years ago.)
Now, I don't have actual knowledge as such as to how these things work, but my expeirience was:
I went to court once to plead guilty to a motoring offence (tachograph). I didn't bother with a brief 'cos I was going to put my hand up. However, the duty solicitor had a chat with me, and said he could 'get me off'. So he acted on my behalf, the case dragged on for 9 months, was adjourned god knows how many times, and I didn't get to pay a penny for his costs. As he said to me the one time, "don't worry about my money, the taxpayer pays for me".
Eventualy I got a conditional discharge and £43 costs.
I reckon if you engage the duty solicitor he comes for free, but if you engage a brief yourself either you or the crown has to pay, depending on who wins.
But I definitely do think you must plead not guilty. Think about it, if you say you were driving the car and you weren't, you've commited perjury which could see you ending up in jail. You only get fines these days for killing people.
Also, I take it that if you've got to go to court, there was no 'conditional offer'. Therefore, they can't increase the punishment because you've pleaded not guilty. Defendants are allowed to plead not guilty, they can't be punished for doing so. (That was what I was told, anyway. My case was approx 2-3 years ago.)
If you didn't hire the car, what DID you do that day? Mobile phone records of where you were? Home telephone calls? E-mail sent? At work?
Get the hire company to prove that they billed you. They are obliged to maintain records. Provide copies of the two credit card statements at that time to show you were not billed by the hire company.
There must be some evidence of the fact you were elsewhere??!?
Have Plod provided a photograph of the driver? Does it look like you?
Get the hire company to prove that they billed you. They are obliged to maintain records. Provide copies of the two credit card statements at that time to show you were not billed by the hire company.
There must be some evidence of the fact you were elsewhere??!?
Have Plod provided a photograph of the driver? Does it look like you?
With DVD on this one - although something must be missing from the details the OP provided...
If the summons is for the alleged offence of excess speed, then what admissible evidence do they have of driver identity ? Unless you received a s.172 RTA 1988 form, used it to nominate yourself as the driver, signed it and returned it, then they have nothing. The say-so of a hire car company will not suffice in court (see s.12 RTOA 1988).
If the summons is for failure to provide driver details, then you must have been served a Notice of Intended Prosecution and an annexed / combined s.172 form at some point. Did you receive a NIP ? If so, how did you respond ?
Can you confirm exactly what you have been charged with ?
If the summons is for the alleged offence of excess speed, then what admissible evidence do they have of driver identity ? Unless you received a s.172 RTA 1988 form, used it to nominate yourself as the driver, signed it and returned it, then they have nothing. The say-so of a hire car company will not suffice in court (see s.12 RTOA 1988).
If the summons is for failure to provide driver details, then you must have been served a Notice of Intended Prosecution and an annexed / combined s.172 form at some point. Did you receive a NIP ? If so, how did you respond ?
Can you confirm exactly what you have been charged with ?
swisss said:
Cought speeding on M5, doing 70 in a 50.
In a hire car that I booked the week earlier.
Trouble is, I cancelled the car the day before, someone else took it out and my details are still on the hirers log. When they got the letter, it was traced to me.
Don't want to plead not guilty, for fear of increasing punishment - but I can't prove I was elesewhere.
They don't keep signatures for that long (it was last august) all they have is a pfd of the original booking.
This is genuine - I'm about to be done for someone else's crime.... swine.
Any ideas?
I do not understand.. the hire company must have detail of who hired after your non-show or cancellation?
I would contact this hire company und show your proof you cancelled the hire. I would then tell them that I would prosecute them for stress caused by being falsely accused of speeding due to their negligent record keeping too.
When did you receive the NIP .. last August suggest that even now they are at "time out" if they have as I understand 14 days to issue NIP und up to 6 month in case of hire or leasing und so on..
Get in touch with decent solicitor asap if you are as innocent as new born kitten und do threaten media attention too.
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