Suspension upgrade for road use?
Discussion
Looking to sort out the not great standard shocks/spring rates on my T350C. The car is not going on track as I've got a purer track toy.
What are peoples opinions of the Nitrons or are there others I should consider? What are the supplied and fitted costs people have got? Recommendations of indeoendent dealers nearish the South Coast?
Thanks!
What are peoples opinions of the Nitrons or are there others I should consider? What are the supplied and fitted costs people have got? Recommendations of indeoendent dealers nearish the South Coast?
Thanks!
speedyellow said:
Looking to sort out the not great standard shocks/spring rates on my T350C. The car is not going on track as I've got a purer track toy.
What are peoples opinions of the Nitrons or are there others I should consider? What are the supplied and fitted costs people have got? Recommendations of indeoendent dealers nearish the South Coast?
Thanks!
I run Nitrons (not on a T350, of course) and think they're great. But I suggest you think of this as a whole car setup and not just uprating components. Start by deciding who is going to do the job and then find what options they suggest in terms of component prices and performance. You need a suspension/handling specialist of course, not a servicing agent.
Most specialists I think will have their own shortlist of preferred suppliers and I suggest you go with them - that way you can be confident you're using the right parts for the job, and your specialist will likely to a better job more quickly using components they're familiar with. But if they suggest Nitron, I'd get a warm fuzzy feeling from that.
As per previous post Nitrons are excellent, but corner weighting, ride height adjustment and camber/ toe in /out are pre-requisites of a specialist set up. The difference is astounding. Speak to Greg Conelly at Torqueflyte who has set up most TVRs in Ireland North and south. All are excellent track and road tools. 12 -15 clicks on the rebound damping for road. 15 - 18 for track. Transformed my T350
maxx-waxx said:But these are reported to be even better,
Ive heard from others that the Ohlins easily outperform the nitrons but dont have any personal experience.
www.penskeshocks.co.uk/cardamper/4way.htm
Daftlad said:
Just how much better does a Tamora/T350 handle with properly installed Nitrons?
Is the 1500 pounds or so cost (incl. full setup) worth the price?
For most drivers, the answer regarding price would probabaly be - only if the old ones are shot...
I'd have a word with Andy at APM, I've had a spate of T350 cars with blown front shocks recently from Fernies,Offords and the TVR centre, some with very low mileage.
IMHO a decent twintube shock and spring kit can much improve, T350/Tuscan cars.
the gazman said:
Just how much better does a Tamora/T350 handle with properly installed Nitrons?
Is the 1500 pounds or so cost (incl. full setup) worth the price?
For most drivers, the answer regarding price would probabaly be - only if the old ones are shot...
I'd have a word with Andy at APM, I've had a spate of T350 cars with blown front shocks recently from Fernies,Offords and the TVR centre, some with very low mileage.
IMHO a decent twintube shock and spring kit can much improve, T350/Tuscan cars.
I'm sure it can much improve a Tuscan MKI, not sure about the T350 - I think it takes more than a budget shock upgrade and some setting up to make significant differnces. But like I said previously, most drivers would probabaly only be able to justify the £1500 spend mentioned previously if the old ones are shot...
Edited by Daftlad on Friday 2nd June 16:04
GreenV8S said:
Why are they blowing? Are they getting bottomed out, or just wearing the seals out?
Wearing seals out, stronger springs and a different bump/rebound ratio on the back works wonders.
The reason the Nitron boys notice a difference is probably because you can ride Nitron/Ohlins on the dampers and if fact the manufacturers recomend it, mind you even they do also recomend a two year service and presumably re-seal them.
As I say there is nothing wrong with twin-tube shocks, as long as you sit them on the right springs and valve them correctly.
Can I point to the Saggy as an example of Bilstein being asked to valve them specically to the car rather than using a generic valving ratio, tell me you need to upgrade a Saggy because of bad handling but conversely I'm getting Tuscan 2 owners on the phone with problems because the suspension is far too hard and has no compliance. I wonder if Bilstein were consulted on this one, now that JR has gone.
BTW don't include press cars in this because I know that anything that ends up on the telly (like this Sunday) gets set up with double adjustable Ohlins.
Edited by the gazman on Friday 2nd June 18:11
rev-erend said:
I don't buy the fact that they are not great .. not at all.
Yes - the ride is firm but it's a sports car FFS.
Take a look at the lap times of Top Gear and Evo for the T350 - it's right up near the top.
If it was a rubbish suspension set-up then it would not be there - would it !
This is why I asked my initial question - OK, maybe the std ones wear out for whatever reason, but how much improvement to handling is made?
GreenV8S said:
The reason the Nitron boys notice a difference is probably because you can ride Nitron/Ohlins on the dampers
Do you mean run a higher than normal damping rate, or something else?
The monotube boys like Nitron & Ohlins run their standard kits with something like 325lb front and 250lb rear for most Tivs and then wind the dampers up, this is Ok for most cars because you can do this with a monotube but as soon as you want to do anything a bit more enthusiastic on trackdays, people like Joo & Gugi come in and specify their own damping because the narrow band of standard damping restricts the range of springs you can control.
Now if you start doing this with a twin-tube damper, not even a good quality one like Billys, they won't take it, its not just about quality of seals, its the construction of the damper.
So what most of us seem to do is to find a spring rate that will stop the car rolling like a pig and then control it with the damper, further to this we then change the bump/rebound ratio on the rear to allow for even more rebound.
I know this is all a bit simplistic but if I sit a T350 on 400/325 springs and wind up the dampers to 15 clicks front and 25 clicks rear, I've got a firmish front and a compliant rear with plenty of rebound and the dampers working in the middle of their range without over working them.
the gazman said:
The reason the Nitron boys notice a difference is probably because you can ride Nitron/Ohlins on the dampers
Do you mean run a higher than normal damping rate, or something else?
The monotube boys like Nitron & Ohlins run their standard kits with something like 325lb front and 250lb rear for most Tivs and then wind the dampers up, this is Ok for most cars because you can do this with a monotube but as soon as you want to do anything a bit more enthusiastic on trackdays, people like Joo & Gugi come in and specify their own damping because the narrow band of standard damping restricts the range of springs you can control.
Now if you start doing this with a twin-tube damper, not even a good quality one like Billys, they won't take it, its not just about quality of seals, its the construction of the damper.
So what most of us seem to do is to find a spring rate that will stop the car rolling like a pig and then control it with the damper, further to this we then change the bump/rebound ratio on the rear to allow for even more rebound.
I know this is all a bit simplistic but if I sit a T350 on 400/325 springs and wind up the dampers to 15 clicks front and 25 clicks rear, I've got a firmish front and a compliant rear with plenty of rebound and the dampers working in the middle of their range without over working them.
Can you translate that into how the car will then handle differently on different types of road? (handling transverse ridges, potholes, fast A roads, B roads, high camber B roads where an Evo leaves us for dead etc.). Is there a condition where the standard dampers are better?
I keep reading 'stiffer' and 'firmer' shock settings - with what I think are much stiffer springs. How does this affect ride comfort?
Thanks.
the gazman said:
The reason the Nitron boys notice a difference is probably because you can ride Nitron/Ohlins on the dampers
Do you mean run a higher than normal damping rate, or something else?
The monotube boys like Nitron & Ohlins run their standard kits with something like 325lb front and 250lb rear for most Tivs and then wind the dampers up, this is Ok for most cars because you can do this with a monotube but as soon as you want to do anything a bit more enthusiastic on trackdays, people like Joo & Gugi come in and specify their own damping because the narrow band of standard damping restricts the range of springs you can control.
Now if you start doing this with a twin-tube damper, not even a good quality one like Billys, they won't take it, its not just about quality of seals, its the construction of the damper.
So what most of us seem to do is to find a spring rate that will stop the car rolling like a pig and then control it with the damper, further to this we then change the bump/rebound ratio on the rear to allow for even more rebound.
I know this is all a bit simplistic but if I sit a T350 on 400/325 springs and wind up the dampers to 15 clicks front and 25 clicks rear, I've got a firmish front and a compliant rear with plenty of rebound and the dampers working in the middle of their range without over working them.
To be honest I'm not clear what you mean. In my experience the more expensive dampers can be run harder without feeling harsh. So if you have a budget damper you might want to run it on the soft side (for a given car/spring rate) where with really nice dampers you could run them a lost firmer. Is this what you're talking about?
But I wonder if you're talking about 'overdamping' the car to compensate for the springs being too soft. It's certainly easier than changing springs over but not the way I'd want to set the car up.
Or maybe you're talking about some subtle differences in the frequency response of the damper if you adjust the high speed valving without changing the low speed bleed.
would stiffer anti roll bars not be a better starting point rather than replacing shocks, in my short time owning a t350 i'd say slightly stiffer on the rear and stiffer anti roll bars would make a differance without having to sacrifice on comfort for normal driving situations and normal roads, i mean theres not many people who want to or can push their cars to the limits regularly enough to justify these modifications.
i suppose making a car stiffer for normal road conditions at speed is just going to increase the risk of 'loosing it' on uneven roads or patchy road surfaces where differant levels of grip will be available unless on a track.
at the end of the day its more about the driver behind the wheels ability rather than the cars ability is it not?
i suppose making a car stiffer for normal road conditions at speed is just going to increase the risk of 'loosing it' on uneven roads or patchy road surfaces where differant levels of grip will be available unless on a track.
at the end of the day its more about the driver behind the wheels ability rather than the cars ability is it not?
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