RE: It's Murder on the Roads
Monday 27th January 2003
It's Murder on the Roads
Chief Constable wants motorists prosecuted for murder
Discussion
Hey, just what we need: more bureaucracy masquerading as reform.
The laws and penalties are already in place for vehicular manslaughter and murder (as stated: intent must be proven).
If convicted motorists are not receiving appropriate sentences, surely a tweak to the sentencing guidelines is what's needed.
Anyway, the extra scrutiny would impose even more chaos on the already beleaguered roads, as these new investigators slowly gather the rigorous evidence needed for a murder charge.
Hard right, headline grabbing BS. Who pays these guys to come up with this nonsense? Oh yeah, we do.
The laws and penalties are already in place for vehicular manslaughter and murder (as stated: intent must be proven).
If convicted motorists are not receiving appropriate sentences, surely a tweak to the sentencing guidelines is what's needed.
Anyway, the extra scrutiny would impose even more chaos on the already beleaguered roads, as these new investigators slowly gather the rigorous evidence needed for a murder charge.
Hard right, headline grabbing BS. Who pays these guys to come up with this nonsense? Oh yeah, we do.
...and police drivers tried for murder if, when they are involved in a fatal motoring accident?
Cigarette company owners for the many deaths caused?
Local authority managers for not mending roads if led to a fatal accident?
Yep - as said earlier - more headline-grabbing BS from some idiot who want a bit of limelight.
Cigarette company owners for the many deaths caused?
Local authority managers for not mending roads if led to a fatal accident?
Yep - as said earlier - more headline-grabbing BS from some idiot who want a bit of limelight.
I remember a numpty on the news way back saying "when you drive you are in control of a killing machine." Only if you drive a tank - a car was never conceived with murder in mind so murder can only be considered in proven road rage attacks. Other than that it can only be manslaughter.
Does Brunstrom not know the difference between murder and manslaughter - murder requires the prosecution to prove intent?
It's hard to see any road fatalities coming under the category of murder.
However a maximum life sentence is available for manslaughter - indicating that charge can cover some very serious offences.
Perhaps some of the very worst cases of causing death by dangerous driving could be prosecuted as manslaughter (such as that of Peter Noble, who killed six people after drinking thirteen pints of lager).
However in the real world the actual sentence offenders served would probably be little different.
The amount of effort put into the case against Gary Hart for the Selby rail crash suggests that some crashes are already subject to intensive investigation.
It's hard to see any road fatalities coming under the category of murder.
However a maximum life sentence is available for manslaughter - indicating that charge can cover some very serious offences.
Perhaps some of the very worst cases of causing death by dangerous driving could be prosecuted as manslaughter (such as that of Peter Noble, who killed six people after drinking thirteen pints of lager).
However in the real world the actual sentence offenders served would probably be little different.
The amount of effort put into the case against Gary Hart for the Selby rail crash suggests that some crashes are already subject to intensive investigation.
Brunstroms a sensationalist moron with ideas above his station..(pun intended).
I wonder if he even knows what day it is yet alone where he is.
How on earth someone as anal as he could get to the position hes at now is well beyond my capability for rational thought.
I foresee a rubber room for him yet...
I wonder if he even knows what day it is yet alone where he is.
How on earth someone as anal as he could get to the position hes at now is well beyond my capability for rational thought.
I foresee a rubber room for him yet...
On the Tobacco thing
38000 people a year die from lung cancer and thats only a fraction of the total of Tobacco deaths.
Thats about 10 times those on the roads. Are we going to proscute those that sell them ? I mean we know they kill.
Thier have already been some overly harsh sentences passed for accidental deaths on the road.
This makes me so mad I going have to rush home at great speed in the car for a ciggy to calm me down
38000 people a year die from lung cancer and thats only a fraction of the total of Tobacco deaths.
Thats about 10 times those on the roads. Are we going to proscute those that sell them ? I mean we know they kill.
Thier have already been some overly harsh sentences passed for accidental deaths on the road.
This makes me so mad I going have to rush home at great speed in the car for a ciggy to calm me down
Historically, juries were very reluctant to convict drivers of motor vehicles for the offence of manslaughter - they all drove cars, and there but for the grace of god....
That is why the offence of causing death by reckless driving was created - Juries were far happier to send somebody to jail for a 5 year maximum, than impose a possible life sentence on them.
If the copper in question actually did a little research he would know that his suggestion is old news and has been tried and failed.
Perhaps he wants to charge all speeders with attempting to cause death by reckless driving? Is there a fine in that for him?
>> Edited by NICE EH on Thursday 30th January 14:53
That is why the offence of causing death by reckless driving was created - Juries were far happier to send somebody to jail for a 5 year maximum, than impose a possible life sentence on them.
If the copper in question actually did a little research he would know that his suggestion is old news and has been tried and failed.
Perhaps he wants to charge all speeders with attempting to cause death by reckless driving? Is there a fine in that for him?
>> Edited by NICE EH on Thursday 30th January 14:53
mudge said: Does Brunstrom not know the difference between murder and manslaughter - murder requires the prosecution to prove intent?
It's hard to see any road fatalities coming under the category of murder.
However a maximum life sentence is available for manslaughter - indicating that charge can cover some very serious offences.
Perhaps some of the very worst cases of causing death by dangerous driving could be prosecuted as manslaughter (such as that of Peter Noble, who killed six people after drinking thirteen pints of lager).
However in the real world the actual sentence offenders served would probably be little different.
The amount of effort put into the case against Gary Hart for the Selby rail crash suggests that some crashes are already subject to intensive investigation.
Do the British have an equivalent to the American charge "Second Degree Murder" which may be made against someone who causes death as the result of an appalling disregard for the health/safety of others even though they didn't intend to kill anyone (technical term: "depraved indifference to human life")?
I think that would have been an appropriate charge to make against someone who drank 13 pints and then killed several people while driving home. It also makes sense for that guy who fell asleep at the wheel of his car after staying up all night chatting on the internet to his girlfriend.
Second degree murder is basically the same as our manslaughter. It's murder without the requisite mens rea - ie you actually kill somebody, but whilst yuou didn't intend it, you were either ignorant of the consequences of your actions or your were aware of the possible consequences but took the risk anyway. I seem to recall they are known as either Cauldwell or Cunningham recklessness (after the cases that established the principles).
There is no reason why these cannot be applied to drink drivers etc, but as posted earlier, juries were very reluctant to convict.
There is no reason why these cannot be applied to drink drivers etc, but as posted earlier, juries were very reluctant to convict.
Sentences should reflect your actions - Take for instance the complete scrotum who was sentenced yesterday - He has now (to my knowledge) killed a friend when he was 15 and now has killed on little girl and crippled another - and what does he get for a second similar offence - 9.5 sodding years - christ he deserves life this time round.
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