Inevitable. 36 in a 30.
Discussion
I got stopped in Regent's Park on Friday by two BiB with a lasergun.
They said I was doing excessive speed (36 in a 30). I tried to explain to them that I have a clean licence and in 10 years of driving have never had a single blot on my record. I was sorry and said that it was simply a mistake. I said I was simply following traffic and that looking constanly at my speedo in traffic is dangerous and so I was concentrating on riding safely.
No use. One of them obviously didn't like my face and spent 20 minutes going over every inch of my bike.
He then served me with the follwing offences:
(1) Excessive speed
(2) Brake light doesn't come on immediately. He claims that the lightest touch should set it off. You have to press on my the tiniest bit before the light comes on - I would have thought this is normal. I thought this was ridiculous, said as much. That did me no favours.
(3) Exhaust was not road legal. THe bike was boat with a renegade system on it. I have had the bike passed through MOT twice with this can. On each occasion I have asked if it was legal and told it was. I was so pissed when I heard that it wasn't... I actually asked the MOT chaps!
(4) My left front signal was a little loose. Not hanging down or anything. You would only notice if you touched it. So that goes down as strike 4.
(5)This is SOD's law this one. My tax disc (which I have, and a copy of which is coming from the DVLA) must have fallen off that morning or the day before! I had bought a new holder and fitted it 3 days ago!! So guess what, that's strike 5.
I told them I could prove the bike had been MOT'd last month and that since I am not a mechanice it was reasonable to take a professional's word that my bike was fine... This made no progress either. In fact I was told that an MOT is only valid on the day the vehicle passes.
I am not looking for sympathy here. I was just very taken aback with how over-zealous the law enforcer seemed to be. I was contrite and apologetic and never aggressive.
My question is, do these boys really spend 20 minutes checking over your machine when you are 6 miles over the speed limit? Are they usually this aggressive? I have never been stopped before. First brush with the law for me this... Very taken aback by how both the officers were aggressive and patronising, and bordered on rude.
I just hope all these offences don't make me look like some cowboy who was riding a wreck. I can assure you that these 'offences' are really nit picking. I do not agree with the brake light and could not believe that the signal was unsafe. You could clearly see it when it was on.
I am worried because I only have 6 points on my licence. I only got a brit bike licence 2 years ago, and go my car licence a year ago. I had an international licence for years before this.
3 points and a fine you think? Or could be a lot worse?
I hope not. I really don't think I would deserve that.
They said I was doing excessive speed (36 in a 30). I tried to explain to them that I have a clean licence and in 10 years of driving have never had a single blot on my record. I was sorry and said that it was simply a mistake. I said I was simply following traffic and that looking constanly at my speedo in traffic is dangerous and so I was concentrating on riding safely.
No use. One of them obviously didn't like my face and spent 20 minutes going over every inch of my bike.
He then served me with the follwing offences:
(1) Excessive speed
(2) Brake light doesn't come on immediately. He claims that the lightest touch should set it off. You have to press on my the tiniest bit before the light comes on - I would have thought this is normal. I thought this was ridiculous, said as much. That did me no favours.
(3) Exhaust was not road legal. THe bike was boat with a renegade system on it. I have had the bike passed through MOT twice with this can. On each occasion I have asked if it was legal and told it was. I was so pissed when I heard that it wasn't... I actually asked the MOT chaps!
(4) My left front signal was a little loose. Not hanging down or anything. You would only notice if you touched it. So that goes down as strike 4.
(5)This is SOD's law this one. My tax disc (which I have, and a copy of which is coming from the DVLA) must have fallen off that morning or the day before! I had bought a new holder and fitted it 3 days ago!! So guess what, that's strike 5.
I told them I could prove the bike had been MOT'd last month and that since I am not a mechanice it was reasonable to take a professional's word that my bike was fine... This made no progress either. In fact I was told that an MOT is only valid on the day the vehicle passes.
I am not looking for sympathy here. I was just very taken aback with how over-zealous the law enforcer seemed to be. I was contrite and apologetic and never aggressive.
My question is, do these boys really spend 20 minutes checking over your machine when you are 6 miles over the speed limit? Are they usually this aggressive? I have never been stopped before. First brush with the law for me this... Very taken aback by how both the officers were aggressive and patronising, and bordered on rude.
I just hope all these offences don't make me look like some cowboy who was riding a wreck. I can assure you that these 'offences' are really nit picking. I do not agree with the brake light and could not believe that the signal was unsafe. You could clearly see it when it was on.
I am worried because I only have 6 points on my licence. I only got a brit bike licence 2 years ago, and go my car licence a year ago. I had an international licence for years before this.
3 points and a fine you think? Or could be a lot worse?
I hope not. I really don't think I would deserve that.
Edited by AdvocatusDiaboli on Monday 5th June 12:42
splatspeed said:
they are following the letter of the law
i suggest you do the same
if they were discourtious or derogrotary or over zealous
put in an offical complaint
may get them foot patrol for a while really piss them off
sean
I certainly intend to. I can understand doing your job well, but I thought that perhaps it stepped over the line and bordered on trying to teach me a lesson/dole out street justice. They really were most unpleasant! Fingers crossed!
AdvocatusDiaboli said:
I got stopped in Regent's Park on Friday by two BiB with a lasergun.
They said I was doing excessive speed (36 in a 30). I tried to explain to them that I have a clean licence and in 10 years of driving have never had a single blot on my record. I was sorry and said that it was simply a mistake. I said I was simply following traffic and that looking constanly at my speedo in traffic is dangerous and so I was concentrating on riding safely.
No use. One of them obviously didn't like my face and spent 20 minutes going over every inch of my bike.
He then served me with the follwing offences:
(1) Excessive speed
(2) Brake light doesn't come on immediately. He claims that the lightest touch should set it off. You have to press on my the tiniest bit before the light comes on - I would have thought this is normal. I thought this was ridiculous, said as much. That did me no favours.
(3) Exhaust was not road legal. THe bike was boat with a renegade system on it. I have had the bike passed through MOT twice with this can. On each occasion I have asked if it was legal and told it was. I was so pissed when I heard that it wasn't... I actually asked the MOT chaps!
(4) My left front signal was a little loose. Not hanging down or anything. You would only notice if you touched it. So that goes down as strike 4.
(5)This is SOD's law this one. My tax disc (which I have, and a copy of which is coming from the DVLA) must have fallen off that morning or the day before! I had bought a new holder and fitted it 3 days ago!! So guess what, that's strike 5.
I told them I could prove the bike had been MOT'd last month and that since I am not a mechanice it was reasonable to take a professional's word that my bike was fine... This made no progress either. In fact I was told that an MOT is only valid on the day the vehicle passes.
I am not looking for sympathy here. I was just very taken aback with how over-zealous the law enforcer seemed to be. I was contrite and apologetic and never aggressive.
My question is, do these boys really spend 20 minutes checking over your machine when you are 6 miles over the speed limit? Are they usually this aggressive? I have never been stopped before. First brush with the law for me this... Very taken aback by how both the officers were aggressive and patronising, and bordered on rude.
I just hope all these offences don't make me look like some cowboy who was riding a wreck. I can assure you that these 'offences' are really nit picking. I do not agree with the brake light and could not believe that the signal was unsafe. You could clearly see it when it was on.
I am worried because I only have 6 points on my licence. I only got a brit bike licence 2 years ago, and go my car licence a year ago. I had an international licence for years before this.
3 points and a fine you think? Or could be a lot worse?
I hope not. I really don't think I would deserve that.
Edited by AdvocatusDiaboli on Monday 5th June 12:42
Please don't assume I am trying to teach my grannie to suck eggs, but it would appear both from your nickname and your profile that you are indeed a lawyer.
Why would you accept this kind of nonsense from public servants.
These are my relevant technical observations from what you have posted.
Did the officers have a Decibel Meter in their possession? I'm not being facetious bby the way, but without it how can they possibly say the noise is illegal, particularly in the light of it passing two MOT tests.
I am almost certain that the one carrying out the vehicle inspection was not a qualified vehicle examiner simply because he is totally wrong in his assertion about the brake light.
The brake foot lever MUST NOT be adjusted so that the light comes on at the slightest touch, if it was it would constantly flicker or glow with the weight of you boot alone: any motorcycle workshop manual will tell you this.
If your signal lamp is facing forward, flashing correctly and shows no white light to the front through a crack it is 100% legal. It does not have to be completely tight to be secure.
Radar guns are notoriously innaccurate and to try and assert that you were speeding at 36MPH is quite frankly utterly stupid and an insult to your intelligence.
The only thing they could report you for legitimately is failing to display a tax disc, but as it is lost and is valid and reported to the DVLA, this is draconian behaviour in the extreme.
Not only would I fight every single issue on here, I would lodge a complaint about behaviour with the Duty Officer at their station.
If you want to discuss any of this privately feel free to e-mail me.
Good luck.
1) Bad luck
2) Whats the offence code for this?
3) Does it say 'Not for road use' on it?
4) Whats the offence code for this?
5) DVLA aware, duplicate can be shown, no problem.
I'd say
£60/3 points for offence 1
Offence 3 you may have issue with, its probably non-endorsable though.
No chance of making the others stick.
If you get anything more than a conditional offer of 3 points and £60 I'd be amazed...
2) Whats the offence code for this?
3) Does it say 'Not for road use' on it?
4) Whats the offence code for this?
5) DVLA aware, duplicate can be shown, no problem.
I'd say
£60/3 points for offence 1
Offence 3 you may have issue with, its probably non-endorsable though.
No chance of making the others stick.
If you get anything more than a conditional offer of 3 points and £60 I'd be amazed...
Kicking myself for not kicking up a fuss now. I did think they were being over the top and do reckon that I can challenge most of it. Reason I did kick up a fuss is because I was keen to try and co-operate as much as possible in the hope he might list the 6 offences, beat me with the verbal stick and let me go. Nope, didn't work!
But yes, I intend to challenge everything.
Funny thing is, I went home to sort my signal out and now it really is loose and unusable! Needless to say I am not on the road. Ain't the tube great! I cannot believe the crap about the brake light.
As for the exhaust. Christ. What a wally. I have had TWO MOT's. In fact at the last one, the chappie said that the DVLA had now decided that all exhausts were legal and they weren't taking race cans off anymore. Obviously i haven't seen any source documents, but I woudl had no reason to disbelieve him. ALl MOTs are now linked by comptuer to the DVLA i believe while they are being doen.
But yes, I intend to challenge everything.
Funny thing is, I went home to sort my signal out and now it really is loose and unusable! Needless to say I am not on the road. Ain't the tube great! I cannot believe the crap about the brake light.
As for the exhaust. Christ. What a wally. I have had TWO MOT's. In fact at the last one, the chappie said that the DVLA had now decided that all exhausts were legal and they weren't taking race cans off anymore. Obviously i haven't seen any source documents, but I woudl had no reason to disbelieve him. ALl MOTs are now linked by comptuer to the DVLA i believe while they are being doen.
1) Laser guns frequently make errors on reading the speed of motorcycles as the components and rider move. If you hit a bump your body movement alone could give them a false reading. There is a good article on Pepipoo about just such a case.
Thinking about it, if you were riding with the flow of traffic how did the officer form prior opinion that "you" were speeding in amongst the traffic?
Thinking about it, if you were riding with the flow of traffic how did the officer form prior opinion that "you" were speeding in amongst the traffic?
Plotloss said:
1) Bad luck
2) Whats the offence code for this?
3) Does it say 'Not for road use' on it?
4) Whats the offence code for this?
5) DVLA aware, duplicate can be shown, no problem.
I'd say
£60/3 points for offence 1
Offence 3 you may have issue with, its probably non-endorsable though.
No chance of making the others stick.
If you get anything more than a conditional offer of 3 points and £60 I'd be amazed...
2) Not received the official letter yet
3) Says 'competition use'. But it is not that loud and is in perfect nick. I have seen and heard loads much louder! Also, I did point exactly this text to the MOT chappies... What an idiot I was to trust a professional! Maybe I should t-cut the text out?
4)Same as (2)
5)Yup, not worried. But what bad luck!
Seems like a sad reflection on the state of the police force these days. Concentrating on the easy, conviction driven policing rather than nicking rapists etc..
I mean, many years ago I got stopped in my c***py old fiesta. I had a left brake light out, front left headlight only on dim, two tyres not very good.. He then read me out the fines/points etc.. I could get for it, told me to get them fixed, and sent me on my way. I suspect nowadays I would be shot at dawn for that.
I mean, many years ago I got stopped in my c***py old fiesta. I had a left brake light out, front left headlight only on dim, two tyres not very good.. He then read me out the fines/points etc.. I could get for it, told me to get them fixed, and sent me on my way. I suspect nowadays I would be shot at dawn for that.
Sounds familiar ... see my previous post* on use of intel to stop "flagged" motorists.
Is there a chance that you have aroused the ire of some C3PO at some stage?
Was it a full-on VOSA / ANPR vehicle check point or just a pair of plod with a speedgun for the afternoon?
* www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=274350&f=10&h=0&p=3
Is there a chance that you have aroused the ire of some C3PO at some stage?
Was it a full-on VOSA / ANPR vehicle check point or just a pair of plod with a speedgun for the afternoon?
* www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=274350&f=10&h=0&p=3
AdvocatusDiaboli said:
I got stopped in Regent's Park on Friday by two BiB with a lasergun.
They said I was doing excessive speed (36 in a 30). I tried to explain to them that I have a clean licence and in 10 years of driving have never had a single blot on my record.
I am worried because I only have 6 points on my licence.
Edited by AdvocatusDiaboli on Monday 5th June 12:42
Whilst I agree that they seem very over enthusiastic - normally only the case if the 'perp' is rude etc - you say you were not so perhaps they were having a bad day...you say you've had a clean licence for 10 years, then say you have 6 points....call me crazy, but which is it?
Did you infact try the whole 'I am holier than holy' trick only for them to come back with a 'but you've already got 6 point sir'....
I DO feel for you, just your text is self contradicting...
virgil said:
I got stopped in Regent's Park on Friday by two BiB with a lasergun.
They said I was doing excessive speed (36 in a 30). I tried to explain to them that I have a clean licence and in 10 years of driving have never had a single blot on my record.
I am worried because I only have 6 points on my licence.
Edited by AdvocatusDiaboli on Monday 5th June 12:42
Whilst I agree that they seem very over enthusiastic - normally only the case if the 'perp' is rude etc - you say you were not so perhaps they were having a bad day...you say you've had a clean licence for 10 years, then say you have 6 points....call me crazy, but which is it?
Did you infact try the whole 'I am holier than holy' trick only for them to come back with a 'but you've already got 6 point sir'....
I DO feel for you, just your text is self contradicting...
Extracted from my first post.
"I am worried because I only have 6 points on my licence. I only got a brit bike licence 2 years ago, and go my car licence a year ago. I had an international licence for years before this."
To be crystal clear, what I meant is (and what i think most people got!) on a new licence you have a limit of 6 points till you have the licence for 2 years. I have zero points on the licence.
Time to break out the reading glasses!
7db said:
Sounds familiar ... see my previous post* on use of intel to stop "flagged" motorists.
Is there a chance that you have aroused the ire of some C3PO at some stage?
Was it a full-on VOSA / ANPR vehicle check point or just a pair of plod with a speedgun for the afternoon?
* www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=274350&f=10&h=0&p=3
Just two plodsies. Though there was a van parked about 20 metres away. The van wasn't participating in the activity though. I only saw the two gentlemen I dealt with. They did radio someone to verify my details though...
[quote=AdvocatusDiaboli"I am worried because I only have 6 points on my licence. I only got a brit bike licence 2 years ago, and go my car licence a year ago. I had an international licence for years before this."
To be crystal clear, what I meant is (and what i think most people got!) on a new licence you have a limit of 6 points till you have the licence for 2 years. I have zero points on the licence.
Time to break out the reading glasses! [/quote]
Ah - got you...
To be crystal clear, what I meant is (and what i think most people got!) on a new licence you have a limit of 6 points till you have the licence for 2 years. I have zero points on the licence.
Time to break out the reading glasses!
[/quote] Ah - got you...
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