To Tip or not to Tip
Discussion
Hi All - been a lurker for a while, but decided to come out of the shadows with yet another 993 buying question..
I'm a few weeks into my hunt for my ideal 993 - late c2 or targa manual.
Problem is there are so few coming up that I'm starting to wonder whether I should be easing the manual requirement and thinking about Tips.
I'm arranging a drive in a Tip S, but I still think I'll be in a quandary.
My experience of Tiptronic comes from an FTO I had some years back, which I found great for a while, but I got very frustrated when on the 5% of driving where I was actually playing rather than cruising on normal roads, in normal traffic. The main reason I'm going 993 is because I want more of a plaything. I just sold a z3 MCoupe which was great performance-wise and a great GT, but I missed my old Elise for the sheer pleasure of driving a sports car. The 993 seems to sit nicely in the middle of them.
So, the golden question is, would I still end up with a big
on my face if I got a lovely late c2 or targa, BUT it was a tip, and would that grin last? I suspect not. Does having a Tip preclude trackdays ???
Help !!! - even if it's to tell me it's a very temporary lull in the 993 buyers market and more choice should come available...
I'm a few weeks into my hunt for my ideal 993 - late c2 or targa manual.
Problem is there are so few coming up that I'm starting to wonder whether I should be easing the manual requirement and thinking about Tips.
I'm arranging a drive in a Tip S, but I still think I'll be in a quandary.
My experience of Tiptronic comes from an FTO I had some years back, which I found great for a while, but I got very frustrated when on the 5% of driving where I was actually playing rather than cruising on normal roads, in normal traffic. The main reason I'm going 993 is because I want more of a plaything. I just sold a z3 MCoupe which was great performance-wise and a great GT, but I missed my old Elise for the sheer pleasure of driving a sports car. The 993 seems to sit nicely in the middle of them.
So, the golden question is, would I still end up with a big
on my face if I got a lovely late c2 or targa, BUT it was a tip, and would that grin last? I suspect not. Does having a Tip preclude trackdays ??? Help !!! - even if it's to tell me it's a very temporary lull in the 993 buyers market and more choice should come available...
Edited by nrayner on Monday 5th June 19:33
Edited by nrayner on Monday 5th June 19:34
I used to say the only reason an auto/tip existed on a car with any iota of sportyness was if you were missing a leg.
However there was a chap with one leg in a Noble at Spa last wk, who coped very well with his single leg with after an aftermarket clutch mod, hence with this available I can see no reason for Tips on sports cars.
However there was a chap with one leg in a Noble at Spa last wk, who coped very well with his single leg with after an aftermarket clutch mod, hence with this available I can see no reason for Tips on sports cars.
nrayner said:
You're both agreeing with my original thoughts in spades, what got me wondering was the sheer number of cars out there that are tips - it must have been an extra cost option as well, why were so many (and especially targas) ordered this way from new !?
Because most sports cars, Porsche included, are not bought by enthusiasts like people here but by people who cruise around and never drive it as it was designed to be driven. From a thoroughly unscientific poll on a Boxster site, I concluded tip drivers were either women who couldn't drive a manual, drivers of advancing years or self-confessed "lazy drivers" (oh and a couple with leg/back problems so fair enough). I have documented my hatred of the odious tip many times before, suffice to say try it before you buy it. From your comments of trying to get back the feel of an Elise or the wonderful Z3M coupe I am surprised you are even considering one.
Even the latest one was criticised by Evo in the 997TT for robbing the car of some enjoymnent, feel and involvement and said it would not be a drivers choice even if it is faster. Guaranteed 70% will be ordered with the damn things though.
Edited by Adam B on Monday 5th June 20:24
Edited by Adam B on Monday 5th June 20:25
I think I might have heard enough already to put me off - just checking that my preconceptions were right.
I was considering them out of impatience to get myself behind the wheel of my own shiny toy :-) I'll just have to sit tight and monitor the usual-suspect specialists or contemplate risking a private buy.
I was considering them out of impatience to get myself behind the wheel of my own shiny toy :-) I'll just have to sit tight and monitor the usual-suspect specialists or contemplate risking a private buy.
Why be put off by the boy-racer comments before you've even sampled a Tiptronic 993? There are advantages to buying a Tiptronic car, not least of which is that you can be pretty sure that the drive train, clutch etc haven't been thrashed to bits by others of that ilk. I've just come back from a week's driving in Snowdonia in my Targa Tip S and had a lot of fun on those stunning twisty, empty roads and never once missed having to work a manual box to keep the car in a suitable gear. I can't comment on their use for track days - I don't do them - but there are others on the forum who do.
As for the Targa option, it's a delight in good weather and a very pleasant option even on a dry winter's day.
Give the car a chance and you may find it's all you could wish for! Good luck in your choice.
As for the Targa option, it's a delight in good weather and a very pleasant option even on a dry winter's day.
Give the car a chance and you may find it's all you could wish for! Good luck in your choice.
Currently got a 996 targa tip, and for me the tip was a no brainer - a youth of playing rugby means my left knee cap has been broken, the cartilage is buggered, and the tendon connecting the knee cap to the rest of the leg is also a bit squiffy.
I do alot of city driving, purely because i live in one, and to get out of the city to have a fun drive, funnily enough i have to drive through it, and even in my old golf, constantly holding on the clutch in traffic was killing me. I would strongly argue against being called a housewife, but would also admit i'm currently apprehensive of going on a track day - purely in terms of fear of crashing my new P&J, something which i hope time will solve
I do alot of city driving, purely because i live in one, and to get out of the city to have a fun drive, funnily enough i have to drive through it, and even in my old golf, constantly holding on the clutch in traffic was killing me. I would strongly argue against being called a housewife, but would also admit i'm currently apprehensive of going on a track day - purely in terms of fear of crashing my new P&J, something which i hope time will solve
Against all expectations, the tip is actually not that bad on a track day. You can concentrate on steering rather than fiddling around with your left hand and the box "learns" the driving style very quickly and is very agile on the track. So I would actually say that whilst the tip is a bit of a bore to drive around (shifting up too early on most occassions) it works very well on track and in traffic. So it is really horses for courses.
bermyandy said:
I would strongly argue against being called a housewife,
hopefully not aimed at me as I clearly stated "and a couple with leg/back problems so fair enough"
I think they are awful but its just my opinion and would recommend any prospective buyer to by all means try one - just don't buy one without driving it or comparing to a manual.
Adam, not aimed at you, aimed at the people who blanket call all tip users housewives - apologies for the confusion
Agree with you also about taking a manual and a tip out. Do them back to back for longish test drives and see what you get on with. The tip will feel odd at first though i can almost guarantee it. Buy the transmission based on how you will be doing most of your driving
Agree with you also about taking a manual and a tip out. Do them back to back for longish test drives and see what you get on with. The tip will feel odd at first though i can almost guarantee it. Buy the transmission based on how you will be doing most of your driving
Edited by bermyandy on Tuesday 6th June 12:22
no problem Andy and agreed, back to back is ideal (borrow an OPC stock 
)
Would argue its not just a time factor, I live in London and 70% of my driving in the Boxster was in London - for me the manual was no trickier than my Polo, yes an auto is easier when stuck in traffic but I bought a Porsche for the other 30% where the manual was a joy and a tip would have spoilt the enjoyment (for me).
) Would argue its not just a time factor, I live in London and 70% of my driving in the Boxster was in London - for me the manual was no trickier than my Polo, yes an auto is easier when stuck in traffic but I bought a Porsche for the other 30% where the manual was a joy and a tip would have spoilt the enjoyment (for me).
True, but having said i originally vowed never to get an automatic until i was 60, but for me the tip has changed my views on that. Absolutely love it in traffic, and it quickly changes to a beefier mode either on the buttons or just throught the kick down.
I also feel it has saved my license a few times, as does calm me down a bit somehow!
I also feel it has saved my license a few times, as does calm me down a bit somehow!
I bought a tip 993 c2 and love driving it. Have a valid excuse as my left arm got mangled in a motorbike crash and doesn't work that well.
But I have to say, I'm not particularly disapointed with the tip. It's a good box. You have to work it quite hard in 'manual mode' because with only 4 ratios instead of 6 each gear has to cover a wider spread. But once you get used to it, and have a clear idea which gear works best under specific conditions, it's capable of giving you a spirited drive.
And it has a few benefits over the manual -
Easy driving in an M25 traffic queue (the 993 clutch is quite heavy)
No regular clutch replacements
The 993 manual gearbox has a problem with worn syncro on 1st/2nd (see JZM comments in this month's 911 & Porsche World.
Mind you, i'd still have gone for a manual if my arm worked properly.
But I have to say, I'm not particularly disapointed with the tip. It's a good box. You have to work it quite hard in 'manual mode' because with only 4 ratios instead of 6 each gear has to cover a wider spread. But once you get used to it, and have a clear idea which gear works best under specific conditions, it's capable of giving you a spirited drive.
And it has a few benefits over the manual -
Easy driving in an M25 traffic queue (the 993 clutch is quite heavy)
No regular clutch replacements
The 993 manual gearbox has a problem with worn syncro on 1st/2nd (see JZM comments in this month's 911 & Porsche World.
Mind you, i'd still have gone for a manual if my arm worked properly.
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