M/Way "Traffic Officers"
Discussion
Spotted an increasing number of Jam sandwiches marked as "Traffic Officer" (*) on the Motorways of late - saw at least six different vehicles liveried as such last weekend on the M1.
Are these Police Officers, or are they Highways Agency bods..?
(*) - pretty sure that's what was on the vehicles
Are these Police Officers, or are they Highways Agency bods..?
(*) - pretty sure that's what was on the vehicles
Edited by Podie on Wednesday 7th June 10:04
cliffe_mafia said:
I see half a dozen a day on my 40 mile commute on the M60. I think its a joke that we are paying for two blokes to sit with people who have broken down.
<sarcasm> Yes, it would be much better to let people sit on their on the hard shoulder waiting for the recovery vehicles, waiting to get hit by a lorry that hasn't seen them and has drifted out of lane </sarcasm>
If they make the roads safer (and by removing debris, closing lanes as necessary, they do) then they are a welcome addition in my book. Wish they didn't look like police vehicles though...
cliffe_mafia said:
I see half a dozen a day on my 40 mile commute on the M60. I think its a joke that we are paying for two blokes to sit with people who have broken down.
Ahh! But if the government wants MOP to THINK they are TrafPol and drive accordingly, then they get policing on the cheap by using more and more HATO's.
Why do you think their markings are so alike? If it was simply a case of Hi-Viz then why not just make their vehicles one colour, fluorescent yellow?
Edited by xmg5 on Wednesday 7th June 12:51
I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, despite my first experience of them.
Closed the M11 at 11pm, threw everyone off an exit somewhere in Essex with no diversion at all, and no traffic control. It was chaos to say the least.
However, we really need all the help on the motorway that we can get. Let's face it, we're pretty abysmal at clearing problems from the motorway at the moment. Any extra help has got to be a good thing.
Closed the M11 at 11pm, threw everyone off an exit somewhere in Essex with no diversion at all, and no traffic control. It was chaos to say the least.
However, we really need all the help on the motorway that we can get. Let's face it, we're pretty abysmal at clearing problems from the motorway at the moment. Any extra help has got to be a good thing.
7db said:
What's wrong with policing on the cheap? I mean so here's a method of making the Public drive better and we think it's terrible? Eh?
Because it allows the Government to run down the numbers of 'expensive' policemen/women and use cheap imitations instead. All the time assuring the public that they are putting more and more police officers on the streets than ever before, yeah right!! So why do the numbers of real police officers continue to dwindle. How many are retiring/leaving the job to be replaced by the Governments huge recruitment campaigns?
Policing on the cheap is a deception on the part of the Government and is NOT something you or I should be grateful for, not as practised by NoLabour.
I don't disagree about the numbers of real traffic officers / real policemen - but that's not the debate here. It's about the HATOs. When I see them on the motorways (and I see alot of them, especially considering I do't do many motorway miles) I think they are a FANTASTIC idea.
A real presence, always there (only patrolling motorways; no other duties), able to close mways, slow down traffic if something's blocking it, be a real visible marker for broken down cars (eg, if your mum broke down one of these guys would come and make sure she's ok!) etc. etc....how can this be anything but a very good thing?
A real presence, always there (only patrolling motorways; no other duties), able to close mways, slow down traffic if something's blocking it, be a real visible marker for broken down cars (eg, if your mum broke down one of these guys would come and make sure she's ok!) etc. etc....how can this be anything but a very good thing?
xmg5 said:
7db said:
What's wrong with policing on the cheap? I mean so here's a method of making the Public drive better and we think it's terrible? Eh?
Because it allows the Government to run down the numbers of 'expensive' policemen/women and use cheap imitations instead. All the time assuring the public that they are putting more and more police officers on the streets than ever before, yeah right!! So why do the numbers of real police officers continue to dwindle. How many are retiring/leaving the job to be replaced by the Governments huge recruitment campaigns?
Policing on the cheap is a deception on the part of the Government and is NOT something you or I should be grateful for, not as practised by NoLabour.
And as we know successive Labour Home Secretaries have trumpeted about "x,000 more police on the beat" but when one examines their figures they are not only including the CSOs HATOs and so on, but all the civilian admin staff, desk clerks, notes preparers, bla di bla. Total disgrace.
Now recently I've taken a close look at some HATO vehicles. My suspicion is confirmed that the livery is deliberately designed to confuse Joe Public. For example the early ones had orange light bars on the top like VOSA vehicles and breakdown trucks and so on.
Now they have LED light bars which still actually flash orange and red, but when not illuminated look to be a dark colour possibly blue. At least at first glance to my and other peoples eyes anyway. As I have mentioned other services have light bars which are clearly orange, or in the case of our local fire station officers, have light bars which actually do flash blue, but in fact appear when unlit as normal roof rack bars.
Couple this with one of the DfT declared key tasks for HATOs is "high profile patrols" I conclude therefore that there is a deliberate attempt to pass these people off as Police Patrols.
And as for smeone asking about the breaking of the Police Fed, oh yes, you can see that one coming.
TonyHetherington said:
I don't disagree about the numbers of real traffic officers / real policemen - but that's not the debate here. It's about the HATOs. When I see them on the motorways (and I see alot of them, especially considering I do't do many motorway miles) I think they are a FANTASTIC idea.
A real presence, always there (only patrolling motorways; no other duties), able to close mways, slow down traffic if something's blocking it, be a real visible marker for broken down cars (eg, if your mum broke down one of these guys would come and make sure she's ok!) etc. etc....how can this be anything but a very good thing?
A real presence, always there (only patrolling motorways; no other duties), able to close mways, slow down traffic if something's blocking it, be a real visible marker for broken down cars (eg, if your mum broke down one of these guys would come and make sure she's ok!) etc. etc....how can this be anything but a very good thing?
I have no problem with the HATO's at all, or the C3PO's. My only concern is that they are being used by the Government to 'save' them money which they should be investing in the police.
The HATO's and Community Patrol Officers are being presented to the public as "the Emperors new clothes", it gets the HO off the hook when we criticise the Government for not doing enough about law and order, in real terms.
There IS a place for HATO's AND C3PO's but not INSTEAD of police officers, they should suppliment them. Yes they can perform the more mundane tasks leaving the police free to concentrate on more important matters, but I fear the Government sees them as a visible deterrent (with a little bit of careful crafting - uniform/vehicle markings wise) and uses them to paste over the cracks which are the declining police numbers/patrols available to deal with public disorder, crime and a swathe of road traffic offences (other than ROBOCAM ones).
Edited by xmg5 on Wednesday 7th June 14:20
TonyHetherington said:
I don't disagree about the numbers of real traffic officers / real policemen - but that's not the debate here. It's about the HATOs. When I see them on the motorways (and I see alot of them, especially considering I do't do many motorway miles) I think they are a FANTASTIC idea.
A real presence, always there (only patrolling motorways; no other duties), able to close mways, slow down traffic if something's blocking it, be a real visible marker for broken down cars (eg, if your mum broke down one of these guys would come and make sure she's ok!) etc. etc....how can this be anything but a very good thing?
A real presence, always there (only patrolling motorways; no other duties), able to close mways, slow down traffic if something's blocking it, be a real visible marker for broken down cars (eg, if your mum broke down one of these guys would come and make sure she's ok!) etc. etc....how can this be anything but a very good thing?
Oh Tony take a bigger picture!
This is like a lot of New labour ideas, at first glance seems a good idea but in the practical implementation it falls short.
Yes it seems a good idea to employ people for large vehicle escorts, clearing carriageways, babysitting breakdowns and so on.
However in practice when these people have nothing to do, i.e. all is running smoothly, then they literally have nothing to do AND they do exactly that.
The traffic units that they have to some extent replaced would have been pro-active in watching for bad driving, criminal activity and ACTING UPON THEIR OBSERVATIONS. The HATOs can and do effectively stuff all. Yes in theory they can radio in and report, but there isn't a unit able to respond because......
The problem is not HATOs and PSCOs. It's the lack of PCs.
We have this in education as well. We have HLTA (High Level Teaching Assistant) and CSO (Cover Supervisors).
In theory they are a good idea. In *practice* they replace teachers cheaply, and nursemaid ineffectively. Some are good. Many aren't.
The problem is the implementation and ideas are used purely to save money. HATOs and PSCOs and Scameras will replace real PCs.
They may reassure some of the dimmer members of the public, but chavsoc will know precisely what they can and can't do.
We have this in education as well. We have HLTA (High Level Teaching Assistant) and CSO (Cover Supervisors).
In theory they are a good idea. In *practice* they replace teachers cheaply, and nursemaid ineffectively. Some are good. Many aren't.
The problem is the implementation and ideas are used purely to save money. HATOs and PSCOs and Scameras will replace real PCs.
They may reassure some of the dimmer members of the public, but chavsoc will know precisely what they can and can't do.
Flat in Fifth said:
TonyHetherington said:
I don't disagree about the numbers of real traffic officers / real policemen - but that's not the debate here. It's about the HATOs. When I see them on the motorways (and I see alot of them, especially considering I do't do many motorway miles) I think they are a FANTASTIC idea.
A real presence, always there (only patrolling motorways; no other duties), able to close mways, slow down traffic if something's blocking it, be a real visible marker for broken down cars (eg, if your mum broke down one of these guys would come and make sure she's ok!) etc. etc....how can this be anything but a very good thing?
A real presence, always there (only patrolling motorways; no other duties), able to close mways, slow down traffic if something's blocking it, be a real visible marker for broken down cars (eg, if your mum broke down one of these guys would come and make sure she's ok!) etc. etc....how can this be anything but a very good thing?
Oh Tony take a bigger picture!
This is like a lot of New labour ideas, at first glance seems a good idea but in the practical implementation it falls short.
Yes it seems a good idea to employ people for large vehicle escorts, clearing carriageways, babysitting breakdowns and so on.
However in practice when these people have nothing to do, i.e. all is running smoothly, then they literally have nothing to do AND they do exactly that.
The traffic units that they have to some extent replaced would have been pro-active in watching for bad driving, criminal activity and ACTING UPON THEIR OBSERVATIONS. The HATOs can and do effectively stuff all. Yes in theory they can radio in and report, but there isn't a unit able to respond because......
Precisely
Edited by xmg5 on Wednesday 7th June 14:46
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff