Former trafpol says: drive faster or else
Discussion
From local Lincolnshire media recently, sent to me by fellow ABDer & PHer. I've been working away so I await the repost police and maybe moderator action...
Anyway here it is, from 20 year time served officer and former trafpol, driving too slowly is a menace - he's written to the Chief Constbale demanding that slow drivers are targetted due to the safety risk. Also he points out the risk to safety posed by the proliferation of silly slow limits, echoing the Suffolk Coroner (Bill Walrond) who cited too-slow limits as contributory factors in road deaths he was considering at inquest.
About time this was reconsidered.
09:20 - 09 June 2006
A former traffic policeman has called for motorists to drive faster to cut road deaths in Lincolnshire.
Retired Keith Peat, who was an officer for 20 years, believes slow drivers cause tail- backs and frustration and can prompt other drivers to make dangerous manoeuvres.
He has now written to Lincolnshire Police Chief Constable Tony Lake asking him to instruct officers to stop and punish people who drive way below the speed limit.
In the letter Mr Peat, who is a qualified advanced driver, says the common claim that speed causes most road accidents is "fraudulent".
The 65-year-old says the increasing number of speed restrictions actually causes more deaths.
"The only time speed actually causes an accident is when a driver loses control of his car and no other vehicle is involved," he said.
"This is rare. Primary causes may be poor road layout, poor signs, badly parked vehicles, a child running into the path of a vehicle and excessively slow drivers."
"In these cases speed is not the cause, it simply has an effect on the outcome."
"We have become obsessed with speed, when driving too slow actually causes more problems."
"There is hardly any dual carriageway here and slow drivers, sometimes 20mph below the limit, create tailbacks and frustration leading to stupid overtaking manouvres."
"It is overtaking accidents that are the worst. The answer is not to lower speed limits and bar overtaking. It is to encourage people to drive at the limit and to free up the roads by reducing double hatching."
So far this year 32 people have died on county roads.
Lincs stated a few years back they were going to re-focus on all 3 E's of road safety but more recently it looks like they've been seduced by government propaganda and road safety there has been suffering.
Anyway here it is, from 20 year time served officer and former trafpol, driving too slowly is a menace - he's written to the Chief Constbale demanding that slow drivers are targetted due to the safety risk. Also he points out the risk to safety posed by the proliferation of silly slow limits, echoing the Suffolk Coroner (Bill Walrond) who cited too-slow limits as contributory factors in road deaths he was considering at inquest.
About time this was reconsidered.
Lincs article said:
09:20 - 09 June 2006
A former traffic policeman has called for motorists to drive faster to cut road deaths in Lincolnshire.
Retired Keith Peat, who was an officer for 20 years, believes slow drivers cause tail- backs and frustration and can prompt other drivers to make dangerous manoeuvres.
He has now written to Lincolnshire Police Chief Constable Tony Lake asking him to instruct officers to stop and punish people who drive way below the speed limit.
In the letter Mr Peat, who is a qualified advanced driver, says the common claim that speed causes most road accidents is "fraudulent".
The 65-year-old says the increasing number of speed restrictions actually causes more deaths.
"The only time speed actually causes an accident is when a driver loses control of his car and no other vehicle is involved," he said.
"This is rare. Primary causes may be poor road layout, poor signs, badly parked vehicles, a child running into the path of a vehicle and excessively slow drivers."
"In these cases speed is not the cause, it simply has an effect on the outcome."
"We have become obsessed with speed, when driving too slow actually causes more problems."
"There is hardly any dual carriageway here and slow drivers, sometimes 20mph below the limit, create tailbacks and frustration leading to stupid overtaking manouvres."
"It is overtaking accidents that are the worst. The answer is not to lower speed limits and bar overtaking. It is to encourage people to drive at the limit and to free up the roads by reducing double hatching."
So far this year 32 people have died on county roads.
Lincs stated a few years back they were going to re-focus on all 3 E's of road safety but more recently it looks like they've been seduced by government propaganda and road safety there has been suffering.
Edited by turbobloke on Saturday 10th June 11:13
turbobloke said:
[Quote=Lincs article]
09:20 - 09 June 2006
A former traffic policeman has called for motorists to drive faster to cut road deaths in Lincolnshire.
Retired Keith Peat, who was an officer for 20 years, believes slow drivers cause tail- backs and frustration and can prompt other drivers to make dangerous manoeuvres.
He has now written to Lincolnshire Police Chief Constable Tony Lake asking him to instruct officers to stop and punish people who drive way below the speed limit.
In the letter Mr Peat, who is a qualified advanced driver, says the common claim that speed causes most road accidents is "fraudulent".
The 65-year-old says the increasing number of speed restrictions actually causes more deaths.
"The only time speed actually causes an accident is when a driver loses control of his car and no other vehicle is involved," he said.
"This is rare. Primary causes may be poor road layout, poor signs, badly parked vehicles, a child running into the path of a vehicle and excessively slow drivers."
"In these cases speed is not the cause, it simply has an effect on the outcome."
"We have become obsessed with speed, when driving too slow actually causes more problems."
"There is hardly any dual carriageway here and slow drivers, sometimes 20mph below the limit, create tailbacks and frustration leading to stupid overtaking manouvres."
"It is overtaking accidents that are the worst. The answer is not to lower speed limits and bar overtaking. It is to encourage people to drive at the limit and to free up the roads by reducing double hatching."
So far this year 32 people have died on county roads.
No problem with people driving at the limit. They should be looking to where safe to, but not everywhere.
turbobloke said:
He has now written to Lincolnshire Police Chief Constable Tony Lake asking him to instruct officers to stop and punish people who drive way below the speed limit.
Providing they add the caveat "without good cause" to the end of that sentance, then i am in total agreement with him.
I'm glad someone in authority has the balls to say it. These days overtaking has become one of the major causes of accidents, it's highly likely this is due to frustration and impatience of us 'mere mortals' being held up by endless 45mph nose to tail convoys. This whole 'speeding kills' rubbish needs to be seriously reviewed but I guess it's become ingrained now
The A15 and A46 are terrible and see many deaths every year, mostly due to people dangerously overtaking usually after being stuck behind someone driving at 35-40 mph.
I applaud the ex-cops way of thinking, but I'm sure it will cause outrage, I can see the old duffers writing in to the local papers now.
I applaud the ex-cops way of thinking, but I'm sure it will cause outrage, I can see the old duffers writing in to the local papers now.
hanse cronje said:
mmm await the fallout from brake
who seem to be able to say what they like with no come back
Not from the ABD they don't, although you're right about 'the establishment'. Officialdom and Maryobe appear to be up each others...hang on didn't she complain about PH not long ago? Hmmm better to preserve Ted's serene expression, particularly after his recent 'episode'. who seem to be able to say what they like with no come back
Anyway their experience is such that they now refuse to put speakers up against us on media interviews. Well, they've not done so in the last n opportunities and have pulled out of some when they knew who they were up against. I think Paul at SafeSpeed has similar experiences.
And the ABD are always very polite and factual
apache said:
I'm glad someone in authority has the balls to say it. These days overtaking has become one of the major causes of accidents, it's highly likely this is due to frustration and impatience of us 'mere mortals' being held up by endless 45mph nose to tail convoys. This whole 'speeding kills' rubbish needs to be seriously reviewed but I guess it's become ingrained now
Going on an overtake is a positive act. The responsibilty for safe conduct of it, lays with the person performing it. Giving in to frustration is their failing & shortcoming.
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 10th June 23:01
vonhosen said:
apache said:
I'm glad someone in authority has the balls to say it. These days overtaking has become one of the major causes of accidents, it's highly likely this is due to frustration and impatience of us 'mere mortals' being held up by endless 45mph nose to tail convoys. This whole 'speeding kills' rubbish needs to be seriously reviewed but I guess it's become ingrained now
Going on an overtake is a positive act. The responsibilty for safe conduct of it, lays with the person performing it. Giving in to frustration is their failing & shortcoming.
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 10th June 23:01
So if EVERYONE was trained to overtake, which simply put NO-ONE is (99% at least) then the above problem might not exist to the degree it does. Currently many many drivers are being forced, peer pressured & plain frustated into manouveres they have never been trained to do safely or otherwise.
Every day I drive on the A303 or A30 I see frustated & clearly untrained drivers trying to overtake trucks on NSL's holding back at 40mph on roads patrolled by the partnership's who in my opinion are inadvertantly causing death & destruction via the own hand.
I've seen first hand experience of the consequences of this exact secnario & it's not nice, if those trucks were keeping up with regular traffic frustration would'nt have set in & people I knew might be alive today.
vonhosen said:
Going on an overtake is a positive act. The responsibilty for safe conduct of it, lays with the person performing it. Giving in to frustration is their failing & shortcoming.
This is all true, but people are people, so as long as there are causes of frustration you'll get them giving in to it. Removing the causes of frustration is therefore likely to be a worthwhile idea. Knocking the 40mph truck limit on the head would significantly reduce frustration.
I remember there being something of a cufuffle in the local papers, early 90s I think, over West Mercia trafpol's publicly stated policy of prosecuting poor lane discipline on the M5 but not prosecuting for speeding up to 85mph. Plenty of old duffers wrote into the local paper defending their right to do 70mph in the outside lane at all times and saying the police ought to be grateful to them for stopping people exceeding the limit. The police response was that causing an obstruction is also illegal, and the behaviour of drivers frustrated by said duffers was a much more significant safety hazard than minor infractions of the speed limit. Sadly I understand that the virus has eaten their policy-setters' brains these days.
MoJocvh said:
Pigeon said:
[quote=vonhosen]Going on an overtake is a positive act. The responsibilty for safe conduct of it, lays with the person performing it.
You 101% on that then?
I think VH is 101% correct with that one. Since I have stopped driving a car with above average power/weight ratio, I am out of practice with overtaking so I don't do it as often. That is because I don't feel the car is capable of completing the manoeuvre safely in the majority of cases.
Glen
vonhosen said:
apache said:
I'm glad someone in authority has the balls to say it. These days overtaking has become one of the major causes of accidents, it's highly likely this is due to frustration and impatience of us 'mere mortals' being held up by endless 45mph nose to tail convoys. This whole 'speeding kills' rubbish needs to be seriously reviewed but I guess it's become ingrained now
Going on an overtake is a positive act. The responsibilty for safe conduct of it, lays with the person performing it. Giving in to frustration is their failing & shortcoming.
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 10th June 23:01
Thanks for pointing out the obvious. One of these days you'll admit that reality and your rigid obsession with 'the law' are at odds with each other, meanwhile let's watch those deaths creep up
vonhosen said:
apache said:
I'm glad someone in authority has the balls to say it. These days overtaking has become one of the major causes of accidents, it's highly likely this is due to frustration and impatience of us 'mere mortals' being held up by endless 45mph nose to tail convoys. This whole 'speeding kills' rubbish needs to be seriously reviewed but I guess it's become ingrained now
Going on an overtake is a positive act. The responsibilty for safe conduct of it, lays with the person performing it. Giving in to frustration is their failing & shortcoming.
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 10th June 23:01
Sorry VH, once again you are short in the concept of reality.
This is something I became involved in a few years ago due to the death of a friend in these circumstances.
A large percentage of overtake accidents are caused by the driver of the vehicle being overtaken deliberately accelerating and placing the overtaking vehicle in a desperately compromising situation.
This scenario is becoming more common unfortunately and stems from the prevalent control mentality peculiar to this country. Some drivers believe that they have the right to determine who is overtaking them and will deliberately slow down to control the speed of the vehicle behind them and then accelerate when that vehicle is in the middle of the overtake.
The overtaking driver clearly has no control over the other; the collective responsibility for the whole manoeuvre cannot be emphasised enough, BOTH drivers must behave correctly.
In the events I just described above, the driver being overtaken who would accelerate is 100% to blame for a collision.
This problem is only ever addressed AFTER an accident occurs, but I believe the only cure for this is once again an active police presence and an automatic charge of dangerous driving for drivers observed accelerating whilst being overtaken.
Few actions can be more dangerous than this.
jith said:
vonhosen said:
apache said:
I'm glad someone in authority has the balls to say it. These days overtaking has become one of the major causes of accidents, it's highly likely this is due to frustration and impatience of us 'mere mortals' being held up by endless 45mph nose to tail convoys. This whole 'speeding kills' rubbish needs to be seriously reviewed but I guess it's become ingrained now
Going on an overtake is a positive act. The responsibilty for safe conduct of it, lays with the person performing it. Giving in to frustration is their failing & shortcoming.
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 10th June 23:01
Sorry VH, once again you are short in the concept of reality.
This is something I became involved in a few years ago due to the death of a friend in these circumstances.
A large percentage of overtake accidents are caused by the driver of the vehicle being overtaken deliberately accelerating and placing the overtaking vehicle in a desperately compromising situation.
This scenario is becoming more common unfortunately and stems from the prevalent control mentality peculiar to this country. Some drivers believe that they have the right to determine who is overtaking them and will deliberately slow down to control the speed of the vehicle behind them and then accelerate when that vehicle is in the middle of the overtake.
The overtaking driver clearly has no control over the other; the collective responsibility for the whole manoeuvre cannot be emphasised enough, BOTH drivers must behave correctly.
In the events I just described above, the driver being overtaken who would accelerate is 100% to blame for a collision.
This problem is only ever addressed AFTER an accident occurs, but I believe the only cure for this is once again an active police presence and an automatic charge of dangerous driving for drivers observed accelerating whilst being overtaken.
Few actions can be more dangerous than this.
I appreciate what you say there, but I also think what Von says is right, at least at the very start of an overtake. At that time the responsiblity for collecting all the information, evaluating it, making the judgement and embarking on a legitimate overtake are all in the domain of the overtaker. However, in view of the outrageous behaviour sometimes exhibited by overtakees, there must come a time when not all of the responsibility for a subsequent conflict can be left exclusively with the overtaker. Knowing what we do about the dirty tricks that one can encounter during a perfectly decent overtaking move, I'm afraid we have to be especially wary and prepare ourselves to cope with the added difficulties.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
TripleS said:
jith said:
vonhosen said:
apache said:
I'm glad someone in authority has the balls to say it. These days overtaking has become one of the major causes of accidents, it's highly likely this is due to frustration and impatience of us 'mere mortals' being held up by endless 45mph nose to tail convoys. This whole 'speeding kills' rubbish needs to be seriously reviewed but I guess it's become ingrained now
Going on an overtake is a positive act. The responsibilty for safe conduct of it, lays with the person performing it. Giving in to frustration is their failing & shortcoming.
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 10th June 23:01
Sorry VH, once again you are short in the concept of reality.
This is something I became involved in a few years ago due to the death of a friend in these circumstances.
A large percentage of overtake accidents are caused by the driver of the vehicle being overtaken deliberately accelerating and placing the overtaking vehicle in a desperately compromising situation.
This scenario is becoming more common unfortunately and stems from the prevalent control mentality peculiar to this country. Some drivers believe that they have the right to determine who is overtaking them and will deliberately slow down to control the speed of the vehicle behind them and then accelerate when that vehicle is in the middle of the overtake.
The overtaking driver clearly has no control over the other; the collective responsibility for the whole manoeuvre cannot be emphasised enough, BOTH drivers must behave correctly.
In the events I just described above, the driver being overtaken who would accelerate is 100% to blame for a collision.
This problem is only ever addressed AFTER an accident occurs, but I believe the only cure for this is once again an active police presence and an automatic charge of dangerous driving for drivers observed accelerating whilst being overtaken.
Few actions can be more dangerous than this.
I appreciate what you say there, but I also think what Von says is right, at least at the very start of an overtake. At that time the responsiblity for collecting all the information, evaluating it, making the judgement and embarking on a legitimate overtake are all in the domain of the overtaker. However, in view of the outrageous behaviour sometimes exhibited by overtakees, there must come a time when not all of the responsibility for a subsequent conflict can be left exclusively with the overtaker. Knowing what we do about the dirty tricks that one can encounter during a perfectly decent overtaking move, I'm afraid we have to be especially wary and prepare ourselves to cope with the added difficulties.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
I suggest you all read the latest edition of Roadcraft then.
MoJocvh said:
I suggest you all read the latest edition of Roadcraft then.
In response to this, I just re-read the chapter on overtaking, and whilst it sensibly warns of considering carefully whether to overtake if the driver in front may appear likely to react agressively, it begs two questions - firstly one often only finds this out on one's first attempt to overtake, when said loony either accelerates hard or swerves into your path, and secondly, unless such agressive behaviour is rigorously punishes by the (several) traffic police on our roads, we might as well all give up trying to overtake at all.
(Yesterday Mrs Beard and I followed an idiot between Stoke and Stafford who drove for the majority of some six miles in the outside lane of the dual carriageway - with an empty inside lane, and when he DID pull in, pulled out again as soon I indicated I was going to pass. I considered the extreme measure - for me - of pulling alongside him at the approach to a roundabout and out-accelarating him on the exit from it - but at each roundabout he swerved into the inside lane at the last minute - so after the first one I just gave up a followed the tw@t at a safe distance)
prof beard said:
MoJocvh said:
I suggest you all read the latest edition of Roadcraft then.
In response to this, I just re-read the chapter on overtaking, and whilst it sensibly warns of considering carefully whether to overtake if the driver in front may appear likely to react agressively, it begs two questions - firstly one often only finds this out on one's first attempt to overtake, when said loony either accelerates hard or swerves into your path, and secondly, unless such agressive behaviour is rigorously punishes by the (several) traffic police on our roads, we might as well all give up trying to overtake at all.
The chapter on overtaking (and you have me at an disadvantage as my copy is not to hand) clearly breaks down the responcabilities in an overtaking manouver between the driver being overtaken and the driver carrying out the overtake-both are responcable for the safe completion of the manouver.
I concur with you Re road policing, to many drivers are getting away with these types/style of driving in which they fail to segregate their emotions/mental state whilst driving.
MoJo.
MoJo
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