3.2 buying advice sought
Discussion
Hello guys,
I'm currently looking at some 911 3.2's of circa 84 / 85 (my first).
One in particular I may be going to see is ~80K miles, full history, recent clutch etc, however there is some rust starting to form around the bottom of one of the headlights and a little above the rubber strip that seperates the bonnet / bumper.
Is this rust a major problem? Is there likely to be any of this age that don't suffer a little in this regard? Does this signal major goings on elsewhere?
Also, what is a likley cost for a top end rebuild?
Many thanks
I'm currently looking at some 911 3.2's of circa 84 / 85 (my first).
One in particular I may be going to see is ~80K miles, full history, recent clutch etc, however there is some rust starting to form around the bottom of one of the headlights and a little above the rubber strip that seperates the bonnet / bumper.
Is this rust a major problem? Is there likely to be any of this age that don't suffer a little in this regard? Does this signal major goings on elsewhere?
Also, what is a likley cost for a top end rebuild?
Many thanks
The rust under the front headlight is common, and is easily sorted with new front wings. The muck gets up into the the wing, and is pretty difficult to clear. It's important to watch out for the ledge at the top of the front wings (inside) which also collects muck and rots. The latter is more of a problem because it can take the main tub with it.
If the car already has rot, you need also to look in the following places from the front to the rear of the car;
Under the headlights. (already mentioned)
Inside the trunk, particularly around the battery.
Inner wing ledge.
In front of the fuel filler.
Up through the middle of the front jacking points.
Chassis side door jambs front and rear.
Inner sills around the oil cooler feed pipes.
The rear edge of the floorpan in front of the engine.
Around the bottom of the rear window.
Above the tail light enclosures.
I don't realy know about the top end rebuild, but I'd guess at about 3K, and 6K for the full rebuild.
If the car already has rot, you need also to look in the following places from the front to the rear of the car;
Under the headlights. (already mentioned)
Inside the trunk, particularly around the battery.
Inner wing ledge.
In front of the fuel filler.
Up through the middle of the front jacking points.
Chassis side door jambs front and rear.
Inner sills around the oil cooler feed pipes.
The rear edge of the floorpan in front of the engine.
Around the bottom of the rear window.
Above the tail light enclosures.
I don't realy know about the top end rebuild, but I'd guess at about 3K, and 6K for the full rebuild.
dilbert said:
The rust under the front headlight is common, and is easily sorted with new front wings. The muck gets up into the the wing, and is pretty difficult to clear. It's important to watch out for the ledge at the top of the front wings (inside) which also collects muck and rots. The latter is more of a problem because it can take the main tub with it.
If the car already has rot, you need also to look in the following places from the front to the rear of the car;
Under the headlights. (already mentioned)
Inside the trunk, particularly around the battery.
Inner wing ledge.
In front of the fuel filler.
Up through the middle of the front jacking points.
Chassis side door jambs front and rear.
Inner sills around the oil cooler feed pipes.
The rear edge of the floorpan in front of the engine.
Around the bottom of the rear window.
Above the tail light enclosures.
I don't realy know about the top end rebuild, but I'd guess at about 3K, and 6K for the full rebuild.
If the car already has rot, you need also to look in the following places from the front to the rear of the car;
Under the headlights. (already mentioned)
Inside the trunk, particularly around the battery.
Inner wing ledge.
In front of the fuel filler.
Up through the middle of the front jacking points.
Chassis side door jambs front and rear.
Inner sills around the oil cooler feed pipes.
The rear edge of the floorpan in front of the engine.
Around the bottom of the rear window.
Above the tail light enclosures.
I don't realy know about the top end rebuild, but I'd guess at about 3K, and 6K for the full rebuild.
mines in for one just at the moment
I spoke to about Four specialists first,
and they all had the same figure in mind 2-5K (5 of if needs piston/studs etc)
you might get it picked up and delivered back into the bargain
and a few of them aren't that busy just now either
well one is now....
where are you
err not cheap then..........
any ideas when a top end re-build is required, any signs to look out for?, another car I've seen has had it done in the 80K region which I thought was early
is there anything else I should look out for mechanically around the engine bay etc?
thanks for the help
any ideas when a top end re-build is required, any signs to look out for?, another car I've seen has had it done in the 80K region which I thought was early
is there anything else I should look out for mechanically around the engine bay etc?
thanks for the help
I rebuilt the top-end on my SC at around 100K having broken several studs changing the heat exchangers, although this seems to be a typical mileage for 3.2's and SC's. It cost me £1800 in parts and machining (rings, values, guides, chains etc), including a new clutch, so I think £2K at a specialist is optimistic for your final bill - £3K sounds a more realistic minimum.
Wings are expensive - I think £800+ for original and around £450 for pattern. An 84 car will have a 915 box which tends to develop weak syncros at higher mileage. Many seem to need a rebuild are £100K+, which is around £800 I think. For all these reasons I would advise buying a car that has had a top-end rebuild and without rust. There are lots about & it will be more cost effective. David
Wings are expensive - I think £800+ for original and around £450 for pattern. An 84 car will have a 915 box which tends to develop weak syncros at higher mileage. Many seem to need a rebuild are £100K+, which is around £800 I think. For all these reasons I would advise buying a car that has had a top-end rebuild and without rust. There are lots about & it will be more cost effective. David
I have just sold mine and it is featured in this weeks classic car weekly.Everything that can go wrong did with mine!Like has been mentioned rust can be expesive especially rear wings as they are welded in.Resprays are dear as there are seals between nearly all the panels.I needed my syncros doing when i sold it and was quoted £600-£1000 for this.The 915 box is slow but adequate,G50 much better but dearer.Make sure you get it inspected, it can be dear but BELIEVE ME!!! it will save you money.These are fantastic cars but if they play up they cost.Just put away £100 a month and this should sort out your upkeep.So,dont buy a rusty one ,make sure its had the rebuild and check the syncros.Have fun!
Rich 36 is spot on with the signs. When I did mine the only untoward sign was a very slight cam chain rattle on one bank, almost unoticeable. I was forced to rebuild having sheared exhaust studs and found that the piston ring clearances were 4MM - which is enormous - and the exhaust valve guides were all outside tolerance. But there was no smoke at all before hand. This is why many have pre-purchase inspections that include compression tests and a leak down test, particularly with 930's where parts are more expensive. Don't be put off, but just be picky and get one with FSH, the rebuilds done and no body issues.
Mine of Five years or so (an 82 BTW)
had no rattles or smoke on change down, that I know.
its only the fact that it produced too much smoke on starting, that prompted me
anyway.
They nearly all, produce a wisp of smoke starting especially from cold,
as a result of oil seeping past rings and stems
on a flat six configured engine in the first place
thats nothing to be concerened about, as long as it doesn't persist going down the road.
Get one checked by someone in the know, or in the adverts at least 'porsche 911 world'
when you see one you like, and they are out there.
Most specialists, will offer an inspection on their ramps, or even come out to vendor
for a small fee.
Once You've seen a couple, it'll be fairly obvious from their condition overall
if they've been looked after,
a popular phrase seems to be
'comes with a ton of reciepts for work done'
which is all well and good, but an inspection (and drive) might be more to go on
than years old bills for work carried out
had no rattles or smoke on change down, that I know.
its only the fact that it produced too much smoke on starting, that prompted me
anyway.
They nearly all, produce a wisp of smoke starting especially from cold,
as a result of oil seeping past rings and stems
on a flat six configured engine in the first place
thats nothing to be concerened about, as long as it doesn't persist going down the road.
Get one checked by someone in the know, or in the adverts at least 'porsche 911 world'
when you see one you like, and they are out there.
Most specialists, will offer an inspection on their ramps, or even come out to vendor
for a small fee.
Once You've seen a couple, it'll be fairly obvious from their condition overall
if they've been looked after,
a popular phrase seems to be
'comes with a ton of reciepts for work done'
which is all well and good, but an inspection (and drive) might be more to go on
than years old bills for work carried out
When you find what you think is a good one, go and get it rolling road tested, it will tell you all you need to know about the engine.
I tried a few before I bought. They looked great drove well but some were as much as 30BHP down.
As this sort of car tends to be a Sunday "toy" for some people, they never get them warmed up properly and the ring wear is excessive leading to low compression.
After many years of good thrashing I in the middle of an engine rebuild/upgrade right now. These engines are precision pieces of machinery and there is no such thing as a cheap rebuild. If it's low on power it's worn and it's expensive to put right. If the cylinders are worn out of limit, figure on 5K to put it right, these engines can not be rebored.
I tried a few before I bought. They looked great drove well but some were as much as 30BHP down.
As this sort of car tends to be a Sunday "toy" for some people, they never get them warmed up properly and the ring wear is excessive leading to low compression.
After many years of good thrashing I in the middle of an engine rebuild/upgrade right now. These engines are precision pieces of machinery and there is no such thing as a cheap rebuild. If it's low on power it's worn and it's expensive to put right. If the cylinders are worn out of limit, figure on 5K to put it right, these engines can not be rebored.
I appreciate your advice guys
it seems if I can one with a top end rebuild already that would be favourable, even if it's a high miler, dissapointingly i'm still not sure i'm going to find a completely corrosion free car on my budget though
going to go and look at a few to get an idea on condition, OPC have quoted £232 for a full check over with report, and a specialist is £150, when I have selected the best car. My only apprehension about having this level of check done is that it likely to bring up all sorts of things on a 20 year old car that I probably will want to get done when I know about them, even though they may not be essential, if you get my meaning.
it's exciting stuff though!
it seems if I can one with a top end rebuild already that would be favourable, even if it's a high miler, dissapointingly i'm still not sure i'm going to find a completely corrosion free car on my budget though
going to go and look at a few to get an idea on condition, OPC have quoted £232 for a full check over with report, and a specialist is £150, when I have selected the best car. My only apprehension about having this level of check done is that it likely to bring up all sorts of things on a 20 year old car that I probably will want to get done when I know about them, even though they may not be essential, if you get my meaning.
it's exciting stuff though!
Depending on your location try one of the more respected specialists - I got mine from 911virgin.com - who will do the checks for you before they take the car into stock.
The good ones will turn down anything not in servicable condition (911virgin turned down my mates SC because rot was starting to show in the tell tale areas) and will give you the lowdown on the ones they have taken in.
IMHO I didn't pay any more for mine than I would have done privately, but had the reassurance that someone with a reputation to lose had checked it out for me first - especially as it was my first foray into 911 ownership.
Mine has 130k on the clock and is going like a train with no signs of a top end rebuild being needed yet.
The good ones will turn down anything not in servicable condition (911virgin turned down my mates SC because rot was starting to show in the tell tale areas) and will give you the lowdown on the ones they have taken in.
IMHO I didn't pay any more for mine than I would have done privately, but had the reassurance that someone with a reputation to lose had checked it out for me first - especially as it was my first foray into 911 ownership.
Mine has 130k on the clock and is going like a train with no signs of a top end rebuild being needed yet.
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