Talking about ceramic brakes
Discussion
Saturday I was talking to a guy at the OPC about a gorgeous 12k mile GT3 which has the ceramic brakes asking how major the problem was with them.
Predictably he was reassuring me that failures are scarce and put down to people taking them on racetracks and then not giving them a few cooling down laps before stopping.
Sounded a bit like BS, especially taken with the stories on here. The idea of a GT3 is fairly appealing to me, and I really love the idea of some nice hi-tech ceramic brakes for when I'm talking down the pub and for low maintenance costs, but given the warranty performance I've experienced and that of kleonard with his GT2 I can't help thinking it's a non-starter.
Are they really fatally flawed? And are Porsche likely ever to admit that and start honouring warranty claims properly?
SM
Predictably he was reassuring me that failures are scarce and put down to people taking them on racetracks and then not giving them a few cooling down laps before stopping.
Sounded a bit like BS, especially taken with the stories on here. The idea of a GT3 is fairly appealing to me, and I really love the idea of some nice hi-tech ceramic brakes for when I'm talking down the pub and for low maintenance costs, but given the warranty performance I've experienced and that of kleonard with his GT2 I can't help thinking it's a non-starter.
Are they really fatally flawed? And are Porsche likely ever to admit that and start honouring warranty claims properly?
SM
PCCBs are a contentious subject.
However, I am sufficiently satisfied that the latest (Generation 3) PCCBs are a worthwhile option on the 997 GT3, although my use would be mainly 'on road' with only a couple of track days per annum.
I know a couple of people who run/ran PCCBs on 996 GT3s and they had no complaints. Whilst the stopping performance is terrific, the main advantages are to do with the unsprung weight which apparently improves the steering, handling and ride.
However, I am sufficiently satisfied that the latest (Generation 3) PCCBs are a worthwhile option on the 997 GT3, although my use would be mainly 'on road' with only a couple of track days per annum.
I know a couple of people who run/ran PCCBs on 996 GT3s and they had no complaints. Whilst the stopping performance is terrific, the main advantages are to do with the unsprung weight which apparently improves the steering, handling and ride.
supermono said:
Thing is I'd be very interested in getting a written statement of condition with the car purchase because I know how they stone wall you when you're on the other end of a warranty claim.
They're all too keen to scream "abuse" as soon as something faulty frigs up.
SM
They're all too keen to scream "abuse" as soon as something faulty frigs up.
SM
I tried to get something in writing. They ain't that dumb.
DanH said:
supermono said:
Thing is I'd be very interested in getting a written statement of condition with the car purchase because I know how they stone wall you when you're on the other end of a warranty claim.
They're all too keen to scream "abuse" as soon as something faulty frigs up.
SM
They're all too keen to scream "abuse" as soon as something faulty frigs up.
SM
I tried to get something in writing. They ain't that dumb.
....same with me, to no avail.
Had no problems thus far though! 
supermono said:
Saturday I was talking to a guy at the OPC about a gorgeous 12k mile GT3 which has the ceramic brakes asking how major the problem was with them.
Predictably he was reassuring me that failures are scarce and put down to people taking them on racetracks and then not giving them a few cooling down laps before stopping.
Sounded a bit like BS, especially taken with the stories on here. The idea of a GT3 is fairly appealing to me, and I really love the idea of some nice hi-tech ceramic brakes for when I'm talking down the pub and for low maintenance costs, but given the warranty performance I've experienced and that of kleonard with his GT2 I can't help thinking it's a non-starter.
Are they really fatally flawed? And are Porsche likely ever to admit that and start honouring warranty claims properly?
SM
Predictably he was reassuring me that failures are scarce and put down to people taking them on racetracks and then not giving them a few cooling down laps before stopping.
Sounded a bit like BS, especially taken with the stories on here. The idea of a GT3 is fairly appealing to me, and I really love the idea of some nice hi-tech ceramic brakes for when I'm talking down the pub and for low maintenance costs, but given the warranty performance I've experienced and that of kleonard with his GT2 I can't help thinking it's a non-starter.
Are they really fatally flawed? And are Porsche likely ever to admit that and start honouring warranty claims properly?
SM
Personally, I would still avoid PCCB at all costs & certainly wouldn't be speccing them on a new car given no experience with the new sizes.
If you look at the new GT3, they have seriously increased the cooling and increased the disc diameter to 380mm. Reading between the lines this implies that the current generation discs get too hot and die if used in anger.
Too many people have had issues with gen 1 and 2 discs for these to be a sensible option in my opinion.
Steve
supermono said:
Saturday I was talking to a guy at the OPC about a gorgeous 12k mile GT3 which has the ceramic brakes asking how major the problem was with them.
Predictably he was reassuring me that failures are scarce and put down to people taking them on racetracks and then not giving them a few cooling down laps before stopping.
Sounded a bit like BS, especially taken with the stories on here. The idea of a GT3 is fairly appealing to me, and I really love the idea of some nice hi-tech ceramic brakes for when I'm talking down the pub and for low maintenance costs, but given the warranty performance I've experienced and that of kleonard with his GT2 I can't help thinking it's a non-starter.
Are they really fatally flawed? And are Porsche likely ever to admit that and start honouring warranty claims properly?
SM
Predictably he was reassuring me that failures are scarce and put down to people taking them on racetracks and then not giving them a few cooling down laps before stopping.
Sounded a bit like BS, especially taken with the stories on here. The idea of a GT3 is fairly appealing to me, and I really love the idea of some nice hi-tech ceramic brakes for when I'm talking down the pub and for low maintenance costs, but given the warranty performance I've experienced and that of kleonard with his GT2 I can't help thinking it's a non-starter.
Are they really fatally flawed? And are Porsche likely ever to admit that and start honouring warranty claims properly?
SM
I would just add that this is not a reason to pass up on the car in question...if you're happy with it overall besides the PCCB question.
There are at least 3 excellent and much lower cost alternatives if and when you do find yourself in a situation where your PCCB discs crumble.
Brembo floating steel discs - Parr supply these.
Alcon floating steel discs from JZMachtech.
Standard Porsche steel discs - either of the above or any OPC, most independents etc...
You're looking at roughly £2k to £3K fitted for the above options. Ask the dealer to knock it off the purchase price!
Interesting thread from last year on this topic...
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=48&h=&t=183153
Be interesting to hear from those running Brembos and Alcons how they've faired over the last 12 months.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=48&h=&t=183153
Be interesting to hear from those running Brembos and Alcons how they've faired over the last 12 months.
S1XXR said:
Interesting thread from last year on this topic...
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=48&h=&t=183153
Be interesting to hear from those running Brembos and Alcons how they've faired over the last 12 months.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=48&h=&t=183153
Be interesting to hear from those running Brembos and Alcons how they've faired over the last 12 months.
Im running the Brembos with RS29's and they are superb. No cracking on the discs, long lasting, take a huge amount of abuse and keep coming back for more! I reckon they'll be good for 25 to 30 hard track days (although the pads only last 6 to 10) depending upon how hard you work them and the circuits in question.
I also use this combo on the road a fair bit.
Steve
Merritt said:
S1XXR said:
Interesting thread from last year on this topic...
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=48&h=&t=183153
Be interesting to hear from those running Brembos and Alcons how they've faired over the last 12 months.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=48&h=&t=183153
Be interesting to hear from those running Brembos and Alcons how they've faired over the last 12 months.
Im running the Brembos with RS29's and they are superb. No cracking on the discs, long lasting, take a huge amount of abuse and keep coming back for more! I reckon they'll be good for 25 to 30 hard track days (although the pads only last 6 to 10) depending upon how hard you work them and the circuits in question.
I also use this combo on the road a fair bit.
Steve
Hey Steve
Sounds good. They're reasonable money too.
I was speaking to a bloke at Parr who mentioned they rattle.
What are your experiences in that regard? Any other drawbacks for on road use?
S1XXR said:
Merritt said:
[quote=S1XXR]Interesting thread from last year on this topic...
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=48&h=&t=183153
Be interesting to hear from those running Brembos and Alcons how they've faired over the last 12 months.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=48&h=&t=183153
Be interesting to hear from those running Brembos and Alcons how they've faired over the last 12 months.
Im running the Brembos with RS29's and they are superb. No cracking on the discs, long lasting, take a huge amount of abuse and keep coming back for more! I reckon they'll be good for 25 to 30 hard track days (although the pads only last 6 to 10) depending upon how hard you work them and the circuits in question.
I also use this combo on the road a fair bit.
Hey Steve
Sounds good. They're reasonable money too.
I was speaking to a bloke at Parr who mentioned they rattle.
What are your experiences in that regard? Any other drawbacks for on road use?
Yeah, they do rattle when they are cold i.e. motorways. Personally I don't care because I feel it adds to the 'track biased car' experience, however with a bit of temperature in them they do go quiet. No other road use drawbacks other than the noise really.
Steve
As an alternative to the Parr setup, you could try the JZM Alcon setup. Solid 360mm anti-rattle floaters which are silent because of the spring loaded clips that secure the disc. I've been using these for a couple of months with RS29s and they are absolutely brilliant in all conditions. Have a chat with Steve McHale at JZM and he'll clue you in.
polarexpress said:
As an alternative to the Parr setup, you could try the JZM Alcon setup. Solid 360mm anti-rattle floaters which are silent because of the spring loaded clips that secure the disc. I've been using these for a couple of months with RS29s and they are absolutely brilliant in all conditions. Have a chat with Steve McHale at JZM and he'll clue you in.
Choices choices...
Are you tracking the car? How do the Alcons compare in terms of durability vs the brembo's?
I assume you can keep the standard Porsche calipers front and rear (Mk II GT3).
What do the discs look like? The Brembo's have curved grooves (groovy).
Edited by S1XXR on Monday 12th June 19:57
If you are serious about wanting to slow down don't bother with PCCB's - they are for a) racing teams chasing tenths with a Ferrari budget
b) People who wash their cars and put back in the garage thus avoiding corrosion.
For everyone else they are a total rip off, fundamental flawed and potentially dangerous.
I am very disappointed with Porsche still trying to reach out to guy on the street and sell carbon brakes as something to be proud off.
I am embarrassed by admitting i was stupid enough to buy a car with them on without negotiating an acceptable use policy from them in advance.
It turns out they are not fit for the purpose i bought then car.
As any track day and racer will tell you a driver does not always have the luxury of cooling down laps, i remember once having to leave the cct because the session was stopped prematurely and i was driving around the back roads to get heat out of the brakes and oil !! did not make any difference they still fell apart.
b) People who wash their cars and put back in the garage thus avoiding corrosion.
For everyone else they are a total rip off, fundamental flawed and potentially dangerous.
I am very disappointed with Porsche still trying to reach out to guy on the street and sell carbon brakes as something to be proud off.
I am embarrassed by admitting i was stupid enough to buy a car with them on without negotiating an acceptable use policy from them in advance.
It turns out they are not fit for the purpose i bought then car.
As any track day and racer will tell you a driver does not always have the luxury of cooling down laps, i remember once having to leave the cct because the session was stopped prematurely and i was driving around the back roads to get heat out of the brakes and oil !! did not make any difference they still fell apart.
polarexpress said:
As an alternative to the Parr setup, you could try the JZM Alcon setup. Solid 360mm anti-rattle floaters which are silent because of the spring loaded clips that secure the disc. I've been using these for a couple of months with RS29s and they are absolutely brilliant in all conditions. Have a chat with Steve McHale at JZM and he'll clue you in.
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