EUROPA S - Direct competition...

[bobo]

Have to admit to being a little confused by the 'business class' tag allocated by lotus to the car...

"The Europa S stacks up against some very accomplished rivals" .... what are these the rivals? perhaps....

New Audi TT (3.2 V6)
Cost £29.285 w. DSG + 1400
250 BHP
4 X 4
0 - 60 5.7
Top 155

or

BMW 335i SE Coupe (inline 6 turbo)
Cost 33.422
306 bhp
0 - 60 5.5
Top 155

What exactly is the direct competition for this car? Its not quick enough to compete as a fast refined biz class multi purpose 4 seater (the bmw will iam sure be quicker in the real world unless on track) so iam i right in thinking in reality its nearest rival is just a lotus elise????

Just curious.

[boggy]

bobo said:

Have to admit to being a little confused by the 'business class' tag allocated by lotus to the car...

"The Europa S stacks up against some very accomplished rivals" .... what are these the rivals? perhaps....

New Audi TT (3.2 V6)
Cost £29.285 w. DSG + 1400
250 BHP
4 X 4
0 - 60 5.7
Top 155

or

BMW 335i SE Coupe (inline 6 turbo)
Cost 33.422
306 bhp
0 - 60 5.5
Top 155

What exactly is the direct competition for this car? Its not quick enough to compete as a fast refined biz class multi purpose 4 seater (the bmw will iam sure be quicker in the real world unless on track) so iam i right in thinking in reality its nearest rival is just a lotus elise????

Just curious.

I'd wait to see how it performs on the road, my gut feeling is that two of the Car's you've mentioned are it's exact competition, may be not the Bmw so much but Audi TT without a doubt I'd also say the Cayman. I know what I'd rather own and I have experience of both the other car's

Boggy

[GTRene]

boggy said:

I'd wait to see how it performs on the road, my gut feeling is that two of the Car's you've mentioned are it's exact competition, may be not the Bmw so much but Audi TT without a doubt I'd also say the Cayman. I know what I'd rather own and I have experience of both the other car's

Boggy

In a Dutch carmagazine this week there was some article the did in GB with cars in a test on the roads and on 2 tracks! there was a Z06 corvette 500+hp a Lotus Exige S, a VW GTI, a Porsche Cayman S and a Subaru STI 280hp...
the Lotus Egixe S was the best sportcar with best feelings as a sportmaster the corvette the brutest the VW...hm...the last but good for that car! the cayman was the "best" but had a bit lack of that sporty feeling the Exige S was loaded with... So if you go for a Cayman...lower it...put some bigger wheels under it tune it! put some GT3 seats in it and you have an almost perfect well build sport car for the road me thinks...

www.autovisie.nl/redactioneel/magazine/archief/autovisie_12_2006/index.xml

there is even a movie of that test...in wales? I believe if I can find it I post it here...

I have the link here, but strangely I can't see it myself! aaaaaarrggghhhh

www.autovisie.nl/redactioneel/fotos/fotohoek/gevarendriehoek/
GTRene

Edited by GTRene on Monday 12th June 11:53

[S Works]

At a guess it's 'rivals' are going to be similar sized 2-seat coupe's, not the BMW.

- TT
- 350z
- Celica
- Z4 Coupe (if they sell one here other than an M)
- Cayman

Had a good close-up look at a Cayman yesterday and was surprised at it's size. It's not much smaller than a 911. I can see why Porsche aren't going to be offering an RS version (yet), it's a very nice looking car.

[bobo]

so no actual biz class cars in yr list then?

[rfoster]

S Works said:

- Z4 Coupe (if they sell one here other than an M)

Yup, they're offering the 3.0Si engine from the new Z4 roadster range, 258 bhp from memory. Have to say I like the look of it (I also liked the Z3M Coupe.)

I do find BMW's naming quite funny, this car will be the Z4 3.0Si SE which just makes me think 'sissy.'

[GTRene]

rfoster said:

S Works said:

- Z4 Coupe (if they sell one here other than an M)

Yup, they're offering the 3.0Si engine from the new Z4 roadster range, 258 bhp from memory. Have to say I like the look of it (I also liked the Z3M Coupe.)

I do find BMW's naming quite funny, this car will be the Z4 3.0Si SE which just makes me think 'sissy.'

Thats why I only buy and also stil have one, a M (the most powerfull letter in the alfabet I believe they say?) the M for More
Mine already have the Z4 M coupe's engine with that 343hp(end 2004 engine and chip) and its a lovely engine also I have a more noise making exhaust realy racy when you drive in a tunnel(almost F1 monaco)
But I realy like the ligtweight (closed or hardtop) cars like Lotus Exige/Elise and the Aly chassis My BMW drive's very nice, but in a Exige/Elise you can do a bit more you can play better with it, its like a big toy go-kart feeling...and that I like...sadly Lotus cars also means a lot of small niggels mostly...but hey, when you know that you hopefully could live with it just like most of you can...Lotus, a wonderful mark and lovely sporty cars its a brand to be proud of when you drive one, and say...hey I drive a Lotus
GTRene

[Skyman]

GTRene said:

rfoster said:

S Works said:

- Z4 Coupe (if they sell one here other than an M)

Yup, they're offering the 3.0Si engine from the new Z4 roadster range, 258 bhp from memory. Have to say I like the look of it (I also liked the Z3M Coupe.)

I do find BMW's naming quite funny, this car will be the Z4 3.0Si SE which just makes me think 'sissy.'

Thats why I only buy and also stil have one, a M (the most powerfull letter in the alfabet I believe they say?) the M for More
Mine already have the Z4 M coupe's engine with that 343hp(end 2004 engine and chip) and its a lovely engine also I have a more noise making exhaust realy racy when you drive in a tunnel(almost F1 monaco)
But I realy like the ligtweight (closed or hardtop) cars like Lotus Exige/Elise and the Aly chassis My BMW drive's very nice, but in a Exige/Elise you can do a bit more you can play better with it, its like a big toy go-kart feeling...and that I like...sadly Lotus cars also means a lot of small niggels mostly...but hey, when you know that you hopefully could live with it just like most of you can...Lotus, a wonderful mark and lovely sporty cars its a brand to be proud of when you drive one, and say...hey I drive a Lotus
GTRene

Well said that man

Edited by Skyman on Monday 12th June 17:05

[S Works]

bobo said:

so no actual biz class cars in yr list then?

Eh?

[lawrence5]

It will be quicker than Lotus say - conservative to not stop Exige sales. But susp is soft.....

Lotus only want 450 customers - then once hooked they'll sell you a real Lotus - exige S

[bher]

S Works said:

I can see why Porsche aren't going to be offering an RS version (yet), it's a very nice looking car.

Yep it looks like Porsche won't produce the sport version plan for 2007. It is a shame because for once the engine was at the right place and the price/finition/quality is appealing. That is the challenger for the exige S or the converted honda/bemani S2.
I do not see any real competitor for the europa. I suspect it will be the Lotus for couple who want a second one being a bit different.
Tuning will be interesting also...

[speedyellow]

lawrence5 said:

Lotus only want 450 customers - then once hooked they'll sell you a real Lotus - exige S

What if they are customers like me who already have a 240R and want a car that is more useable, boot space is a big problem on my Exige... useless for work... the Europa will offer similar feel, better motorway blaster and can carry enough for a week away!

Exige will be the burger blast and track car... Europa for everyday! And still all for the cost of a 997S!!!

[TIPPER]

I think speedyellow has just answered your question re business class Bobo.
Limited market but as Lawrence said they only aim to sell 450 annually.

[S works]

bher said:

S Works said:

I can see why Porsche aren't going to be offering an RS version (yet), it's a very nice looking car.

Yep it looks like Porsche won't produce the sport version plan for 2007. It is a shame because for once the engine was at the right place and the price/finition/quality is appealing. That is the challenger for the exige S or the converted honda/bemani S2.
I do not see any real competitor for the europa. I suspect it will be the Lotus for couple who want a second one being a bit different.
Tuning will be interesting also...

Ahh but 9ff will make your Cayman a 911-killer though!

speedyellow said:

lawrence5 said:

Lotus only want 450 customers - then once hooked they'll sell you a real Lotus - exige S

What if they are customers like me who already have a 240R and want a car that is more useable, boot space is a big problem on my Exige... useless for work... the Europa will offer similar feel, better motorway blaster and can carry enough for a week away!

Exige will be the burger blast and track car... Europa for everyday! And still all for the cost of a 997S!!!

Indeed, twice the fun at less cost.

[boggy]

speedyellow said:

lawrence5 said:

Lotus only want 450 customers - then once hooked they'll sell you a real Lotus - exige S

What if they are customers like me who already have a 240R and want a car that is more useable, boot space is a big problem on my Exige... useless for work... the Europa will offer similar feel, better motorway blaster and can carry enough for a week away!

Exige will be the burger blast and track car... Europa for everyday! And still all for the cost of a 997S!!!

Morning all,

I must say you've got my dream set - up a 240R for us to track, Hoon and enjoy then a fantastic Europa for everything else

Boggy

[beachbum]

Speedyellow, have you placed that order for the Europa ??. I know you had some issues about the price, i.e. they couldnt give you one.

[gooby]

I dont think the TT or the BMW will be competition for the Europa.
If you had your mind made up for a BMW or Audi then there isnt much that will sway you - you are simply that type of person.

There is no way that any BMW or TT will get even close to the drivability of any lotus. I dont think the europa will be any serious competion for the cars you have stated. There are too few made and the appeal is to current Lotus or caterfield owners who still want to drive but require a little practicality.

The bmw and TT are no way as pretty, in the flesh it is a georgeous car and this beauty is impossible for a mere camera to transmit. I think you will find that cross country the europa would not see a bmw or TT in the rear view mirror for long and on the motorway who cares? It has more than enough power to cruise at a speed that will remove your licence quicker than you can say "sorry officer"

I would bet the europa will be cheaper to run and get better MPG, be more sexy, be more fun, better image (IMHO), be more exclusive .... hold on, what competition?

[S works]

Re: driveability, it's gonna be hard to tell gooby until the new TT comes out. I'm sure Audi will learn from the last one and from the way they've managed to make the new RS4 an exceptionally good drivers car, and won't make the same mistake twice.

I do think that the base Cayman will take a kicking if the TT is as good as JC reckons it will be, and if Audi to an RS version it will make a compelling alternative to the Cayman.

The Europa could almost be a stroke of genius for Lotus, because there really isn't a whole lot for it to directly compete with. Can't wait to see and drive one!

[boggy]

S works said:

Re: driveability, it's gonna be hard to tell gooby until the new TT comes out. I'm sure Audi will learn from the last one and from the way they've managed to make the new RS4 an exceptionally good drivers car, and won't make the same mistake twice.

I do think that the base Cayman will take a kicking if the TT is as good as JC reckons it will be, and if Audi to an RS version it will make a compelling alternative to the Cayman.

The Europa could almost be a stroke of genius for Lotus, because there really isn't a whole lot for it to directly compete with. Can't wait to see and drive one!

I might buy one

Boggy

[bobo]

S works said:

Re: driveability, it's gonna be hard to tell gooby until the new TT comes out. I'm sure Audi will learn from the last one and from the way they've managed to make the new RS4 an exceptionally good drivers car, and won't make the same mistake twice.

I do think that the base Cayman will take a kicking if the TT is as good as JC reckons it will be, and if Audi to an RS version it will make a compelling alternative to the Cayman.

The Europa could almost be a stroke of genius for Lotus, because there really isn't a whole lot for it to directly compete with. Can't wait to see and drive one!

yup agree... i seriously think its closest rival will be an elise... any news on when one of the mags will be getting their mits on one?