What welder spec?
Discussion
What's a reasonable spec for a basic but capable home workshop/garage welder? Amps rating, Mig, Tig, Inverter, etc...
I'd like it to be able to handle chassis welds (chassis is ex Cerbera - 1.5" 16 gauge tube) and other 'kit-car' type jobs. I did a welding course some years ago but have forgotten most of that now.
BTW, any critical chassis welding won't be done by me!
I'd like it to be able to handle chassis welds (chassis is ex Cerbera - 1.5" 16 gauge tube) and other 'kit-car' type jobs. I did a welding course some years ago but have forgotten most of that now.
BTW, any critical chassis welding won't be done by me!
Migs are great for point and squirt work and are versatile, but the only thing you can weld with them I steel basicly.
Look for around 150 amps - stick to known brands for easy availability of parts.
Tigs are what I consider a far more precision device, welding speed is slower but the results are far better. If you make a mistake you can go back over it to correct it without ending up with a great big pile of weld. 140 amps for thin stuff, ~180 for thicker ally.(dont compare with mig currents)
Tigs will do steel, stainless and ally (if you get an AC/DC one) all using the same gas (pure argon)
Look for around 150 amps - stick to known brands for easy availability of parts.
Tigs are what I consider a far more precision device, welding speed is slower but the results are far better. If you make a mistake you can go back over it to correct it without ending up with a great big pile of weld. 140 amps for thin stuff, ~180 for thicker ally.(dont compare with mig currents)
Tigs will do steel, stainless and ally (if you get an AC/DC one) all using the same gas (pure argon)
I have heard of people welding alloy with MIG (you can buy the wire etc), but it's a DC process, whereas you can't DC-TIG alloy, so how the hell that works I've no idea.
I have a 120A MIG (old Oxford, copper-wound transformer, none of this modern aluminium tat that cooks in minutes) that will stick 5mm mild steel together.
Also have a 170A AC/DC TIG that gives good penetration on 12mm alloy once it's warm enough!
With most 'budget' brands, buy the biggest one you can afford as their duty cycles are feeble. Not much point in being able to draw 150A if it trips the thermal o/load after 10 seconds.
Incidentally 'turbo' on a MIG just means it has a cooling fan over the transformer. This adds a huge percentage to the price of a 'non-turbo' which will be the same machine without the fan. You can, of course, fit your own fan...
TIG is nice to have but involves hassle with gas suppliers. They won't sell it to you without an account; bottles are £50 a year just to rent; refill is £50 a go etc etc.
With a MIG, find one or two ex-pub CO2 bottles and have them filled by... certain gas suppliers... at £5 a time in the appropriate ar53-pocket. I get through about 3 or 4 bottles a year this way.
Oh, and a little sign outside your garage to advise the fire brigade you have compressed gas bottles in there would be nice, just in case
I have a 120A MIG (old Oxford, copper-wound transformer, none of this modern aluminium tat that cooks in minutes) that will stick 5mm mild steel together.
Also have a 170A AC/DC TIG that gives good penetration on 12mm alloy once it's warm enough!
With most 'budget' brands, buy the biggest one you can afford as their duty cycles are feeble. Not much point in being able to draw 150A if it trips the thermal o/load after 10 seconds.
Incidentally 'turbo' on a MIG just means it has a cooling fan over the transformer. This adds a huge percentage to the price of a 'non-turbo' which will be the same machine without the fan. You can, of course, fit your own fan...
TIG is nice to have but involves hassle with gas suppliers. They won't sell it to you without an account; bottles are £50 a year just to rent; refill is £50 a go etc etc.
With a MIG, find one or two ex-pub CO2 bottles and have them filled by... certain gas suppliers
... at £5 a time in the appropriate ar53-pocket. I get through about 3 or 4 bottles a year this way. Oh, and a little sign outside your garage to advise the fire brigade you have compressed gas bottles in there would be nice, just in case
Here's a TIG set the same as mine on Ebay, you might get a bargain...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dl
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dl
wedg1e said:
I have heard of people welding alloy with MIG (you can buy the wire etc), but it's a DC process, whereas you can't DC-TIG alloy, so how the hell that works I've no idea.
I have a 120A MIG (old Oxford, copper-wound transformer, none of this modern aluminium tat that cooks in minutes) that will stick 5mm mild steel together.
Also have a 170A AC/DC TIG that gives good penetration on 12mm alloy once it's warm enough!
With most 'budget' brands, buy the biggest one you can afford as their duty cycles are feeble. Not much point in being able to draw 150A if it trips the thermal o/load after 10 seconds.
Incidentally 'turbo' on a MIG just means it has a cooling fan over the transformer. This adds a huge percentage to the price of a 'non-turbo' which will be the same machine without the fan. You can, of course, fit your own fan...
TIG is nice to have but involves hassle with gas suppliers. They won't sell it to you without an account; bottles are £50 a year just to rent; refill is £50 a go etc etc.
With a MIG, find one or two ex-pub CO2 bottles and have them filled by... certain gas suppliers... at £5 a time in the appropriate ar53-pocket. I get through about 3 or 4 bottles a year this way.
Oh, and a little sign outside your garage to advise the fire brigade you have compressed gas bottles in there would be nice, just in case
I have a 120A MIG (old Oxford, copper-wound transformer, none of this modern aluminium tat that cooks in minutes) that will stick 5mm mild steel together.
Also have a 170A AC/DC TIG that gives good penetration on 12mm alloy once it's warm enough!
With most 'budget' brands, buy the biggest one you can afford as their duty cycles are feeble. Not much point in being able to draw 150A if it trips the thermal o/load after 10 seconds.
Incidentally 'turbo' on a MIG just means it has a cooling fan over the transformer. This adds a huge percentage to the price of a 'non-turbo' which will be the same machine without the fan. You can, of course, fit your own fan...
TIG is nice to have but involves hassle with gas suppliers. They won't sell it to you without an account; bottles are £50 a year just to rent; refill is £50 a go etc etc.
With a MIG, find one or two ex-pub CO2 bottles and have them filled by... certain gas suppliers
... at £5 a time in the appropriate ar53-pocket. I get through about 3 or 4 bottles a year this way. Oh, and a little sign outside your garage to advise the fire brigade you have compressed gas bottles in there would be nice, just in case
Air products charge me £8 a month rent on my argon bottle.
What are the key elements to look out for on a decent Tig? I've got a set of plans at home to make one, which I'm considering as they are about as complex as a "speak and spell" toy, but dont know if I can be bothered with the hassle. Just irks me paying such a high premium over Migs for what realistically costs them pennies extra to make.
eliot said:
Migs are great for point and squirt work and are versatile, but the only thing you can weld with them I steel basicly.
I'm no welding expert, but afer a few trys managed to do pretty passable welds aluminium - OK, it was on 1/8"-1/4" think rather than thin sheet. Also had no problems with stainless. Obviously with the different wire (alloy or stainless) and different gas. No doubt tig really is the better option, but the cost difference is such I'll live with mig for my alloy work.
jitsukadave said:
What do people think of oxy-accetlyn for car welding?
I found these far more easy to use when I was being trained - you can see the job almost nomally for starters - but it seems that nobody really uses them much, just not sure why?
no good for thinner flat metalwork, the localised heating warps it, added to that you have the hire and fill charges for 2 bottles (dad has 2 large ones that cost about £150 a year) and of course you have a large naked flame so anything surrounding has to be carefully worked out the way/shielded. Personally I enjoy oxy welding, but it's just so much easier, cleaner and neater with other forms.I found these far more easy to use when I was being trained - you can see the job almost nomally for starters - but it seems that nobody really uses them much, just not sure why?
Mtv Dave said:
eliot said:
Air products charge me £8 a month rent on my argon bottle.
That including gas? Otherwise it's 100 quid a year for a bottle!
Well yeah; that's what I said earlier. They have it sewn up: you can't get the bottles refilled just by walking in. You open an account with Air Products, then you find a local stockist. AP advises the stockist, you collect the bottle of gas. No account, no deal.
AP then bill you monthly/ quarterly/ whatever for the bottle rent and however many refills you get.
jitsukadave said:
What do people think of oxy-accetlyn for car welding?
I found these far more easy to use when I was being trained - you can see the job almost nomally for starters - but it seems that nobody really uses them much, just not sure why?
I found these far more easy to use when I was being trained - you can see the job almost nomally for starters - but it seems that nobody really uses them much, just not sure why?
Modern cars are made from high-tensile steels that lose their temper when you heat them. Gas heats a larger area for longer so you (potentially) weaken the structure. MIG blasts a small area very quickly.
Oxy is OK on old cars but again you have gas supply issues. In an industrial environment the fire brigade will always try to get you to do away with flammable gasses - upsets insurance companies too.
Ideally of course you'd use a spot-welder but that doesn't work well on patch repairs.
Davi said:
What are the key elements to look out for on a decent Tig? I've got a set of plans at home to make one, which I'm considering as they are about as complex as a "speak and spell" toy, but dont know if I can be bothered with the hassle. Just irks me paying such a high premium over Migs for what realistically costs them pennies extra to make.
Depends on your requirements: do you want to weld alloy? If so it'll have to be AC. Once you have that, do you want straight transformer/ thyristor control or fancy inverter? If you go inverter it's usual to have more complex control of the waveform (cleaning vs. penetration etc.). Inverters are compact and can generate more current for less mains draw. Tranny/ rectifier is simple and easy to fix.
I'd be interested to see these plans: I considered such things myself but it's generally the big transformers that are the tricky part.
As for other specifications... simple things like pre- and post-flow gas control; high frequency or lift starting; latching on/off; foot-pedal or hand-operated current control...
wedg1e said:
Depends on your requirements: do you want to weld alloy? If so it'll have to be AC. Once you have that, do you want straight transformer/ thyristor control or fancy inverter? If you go inverter it's usual to have more complex control of the waveform (cleaning vs. penetration etc.). Inverters are compact and can generate more current for less mains draw. Tranny/ rectifier is simple and easy to fix.
I'd be interested to see these plans: I considered such things myself but it's generally the big transformers that are the tricky part.
As for other specifications... simple things like pre- and post-flow gas control; high frequency or lift starting; latching on/off; foot-pedal or hand-operated current control...
I'll dig them out for you, they were off the net and apparently work (that's my other slight hesitation, I've not seen it going with my own eyes!) The big transformer was out of a large mig or arc, OK thats going to cost a few pennies but still nothing in comparison to a TIG set up.
It must be able to weld Ally - as to thyristor/inverter etc etc, I'm not sure - price is important but I dont want to spend £1000 now and then wish I'd spent £1500 in 6 months time. I make all sorts of things from tiny RC things that need a dab of weld here and there, up to large heavy bits of kit that I've traditionally used arc for - I'd like to replace as many as I can as I'm going into my own workshop shortly so will lose easy access to a lot of it.
I think I'd definitely want hand control rather than foot - a large portion of the time I'm welding its hanging upside down under something - could be tricky unless I sellotape the control to my foot and kick out at whatever is available
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