ECU Diagnostics Help

[robertjp]

I posted last week after changing Coil packs, HT Leads and Spark Plugs. She is now running OK but not at her best. Jools offered to take a look at the ECU data to see if he could help, and if there are any other experts out there willing to chip in please feel free!

These are the screenshots.







Idle...



Fast Idle...



Now, i have done a bit of homework rather than just relying on everyone to tell me the lot, and my plan was:

1) At part throttle (to take in slack on throttle linkage) balance adaptive trends on each bank by adujusting throttle linkage each side
2) Increase / Decrease overall airflow at idle to reduce Adaptives (doesnt matter now if slightly imbalanced due to throttle linkage play), then adjust idle screw to bring back to 950.
3) Bring throttle pots up bring ignition to around 17.3 with slight adjustments
4) Reduce airflow as necessary to bring idle back down

5) Repeat 3) & 4) to achieve 950 rpm idle, 17.3 degrees ignition and adaptives less than 10%

Sound any good? If its not something like that there may be something fundamental i am missing? Never adjusted throttle pots or throttle linkages before so its a first for me...looking forward to learning if i can (and i am barking up the right tree!)

Also a bit confused as to why the airflow is no longer balanced? Is it because i had all the pruple pipes off?

Edited by robertjp on Tuesday 13th June 22:48

[ridds]

That would be along my thoughts.

From that it would suggest that you don't have enough air getting in for your 18%-19% TP figure.

Back of the idle stop a little and return the TPS to the 17.3%.

How is the rest of the table?

I adjusted mine today as I have a dicky Pot on the Odd bank that is erratic below 18% so I'm having to run them at 18.5% Also have a slack ass rod that is causing a delay and offset in teh even bank.

TBH sort any linkage play out first as thei will cause now end of grief.

[octane junkie]

Can't properly read the RTL data, but it looks like you have a large delta between the 2 lambda sensors. What do the adaptive maps look like?

[octane junkie]

octane junkie said:

Can't properly read the RTL data, but it looks like you have a large delta between the 2 lambda sensors. What do the adaptive maps look like?

Sorry that wasn't very helpful...... I had a similar rough running problem. After resetting the adaptives it would run smooth for a while Half an hour-ish) then go rough. Lambda sensor on one side was flat-lining on the rtl chart (eventually proved to have failed). New sensor installed and everything came back on-song.

Hope this helps but I'm no expert - this just from experience. Good Luck.

[trackcar]

it looks like it might come somewhere near if you get both throttle pots down to a sensible figure at idle, say 16.9. you're too far up the fuel and ignition map for the airflow you've got at the moment. wind the pots back, then increase the idle stop back to 950 ish, then you'll probably have to re-do the pots back to 16.9 as every time you wind the pots back you reduce the timing so the tickover drops away anyway, so you have to keep upping on the throttle stop.

Do that and show us the two adaptive map tables after a bit of a run.

[simonsparrow]

So is 16.9-17 a good number at idle? I think mine is in the 18/19% range, oh well.

On the subject of linkage, I replaced the TVR ball joints with M5 rod ends, this seems to have removed a lot of the slack so far, will see how well they last over time.

[oli_quick]

Ahhhh wish I knew anything about this kinda thing...

...anyone got a quickie guide...what the levels should be, what the effects of adjusting elements are...and their knockon effects to other factors??

Or would this be more of a Encyclopedia.

[Duke Thrust]

oli_quick said:

Ahhhh wish I knew anything about this kinda thing...

...anyone got a quickie guide...what the levels should be, what the effects of adjusting elements are...and their knockon effects to other factors??

Or would this be more of a Encyclopedia.

I'd love to see something like that too if any one has it?

[robertjp]

oli_quick said:

Ahhhh wish I knew anything about this kinda thing...

...anyone got a quickie guide...what the levels should be, what the effects of adjusting elements are...and their knockon effects to other factors??

Or would this be more of a Encyclopedia.

There are some brilliant threads on this, mainly backed by Trackcar!

I have looked up a few, best i have found are called

"4.2 engine set up help needed"

and

"Okay, what am i doing wrong"

Sorry havent got links here at work...

Shouldnt be on PH either, but its sunny, i'm bored and i am going to have a go at set up tonight.

Spent last night 'playing' finding out how to adjust throttle pots, and then spent a huge amount of time trying to undo the throttle linkage nuts which had been way overtightened (i think the LH thread may have foxed someone), It took some shifting....

[trackcar]

simonsparrow said:

I replaced the TVR ball joints with M5 rod ends.

good move

[DuncanM]

simonsparrow said:

So is 16.9-17 a good number at idle? I think mine is in the 18/19% range, oh well.

On the subject of linkage, I replaced the TVR ball joints with M5 rod ends, this seems to have removed a lot of the slack so far, will see how well they last over time.

Oohh Interesting! This was going to be my next step, addressing the slack in the linkage.

If you don't mind Simon, which Model and do you have a part number, price etc?

Are they easy to fit or do they need modifying?

Cheers, This is what TVR ownership is all about imo .

Duncan

[Robertjp]

trackcar said:

it looks like it might come somewhere near if you get both throttle pots down to a sensible figure at idle, say 16.9. you're too far up the fuel and ignition map for the airflow you've got at the moment. wind the pots back, then increase the idle stop back to 950 ish, then you'll probably have to re-do the pots back to 16.9 as every time you wind the pots back you reduce the timing so the tickover drops away anyway, so you have to keep upping on the throttle stop.

Do that and show us the two adaptive map tables after a bit of a run.

here we go...





its trickier than i had anticipated! I couldn't get the idle down! even with the idle stop fully wound in she ticked over at 800 rpm.

Edited by Robertjp on Friday 16th June 14:38

[TT Tim]

Mine ticks over at 900rpm, any slower than that and it's all over the place.

Tim

[Robertjp]

TT Tim said:

Mine ticks over at 900rpm, any slower than that and it's all over the place.

Tim

Thats my point, couldnt get the airflow down!

[trackcar]

getting there, that's fairly typical of the appaulling fuelling characteristics of the 4.5 .. the trend there is the even bank flowing slightly less air whilst driving that the odd bank, so a minor fettle of the link rod to up the airflow on the even bank relative to odd would be beneficial at light cruise .. as everything else on the car has been changed you could remove the wild adaptive swings by getting the fuel map tweaked .. see what it's like after you've tweaked the link rod again slightly. As lon as you[ve got adapts in the 30s/ -30s you'll get afr faults displayed though so if the car drives ok i'd be inclined to disregard those afr faults now .. only way to get around them is sort teh fuel map out.

[Robertjp]

Cheers, will make the tweak and then leave it be, it certainly doesnt feel down on power although maybe i would notice better map. Cant afford that just now though, cause i would have to have a new ecu chip wouldnt i?

...so have to stick the way it is!

[robertjp]

Another thing i would like to add is that Trackcar is in a league of his own.

I actually resorted to going to my local TVR specialist this morning. I was panic'd 'cause i have a Ride Drive day 3 July and wanted things to be right, wanted to see if i was doing something wrong when i couldnt get the airflow down.

Well, i ended up telling the bloke more than he already knew which didnt fill me with confidence. I left there safe in the knowledge that the adaptives would never be right cause i had decat, and so long as i had made sure the pots were at 15 with the throttle closed there was no more to it

I am not ranting, but needless to say there arent many with the kind of knowledge Trackcar has and my advice is "Listen to the Cerbera God" Save your time and money, go straight to the expert

[trackcar]

The decat will have very little effect on the adaptives .. there's little extra trapping efficiency down to the comparatively unrestrictive nature of the cats themselves, there's a small positive reflection of the cat front face but these 2 effects are more in evidence at high exhaust airflows, not the sorts of airflows you'd see on part throttle adaptive trim scenarios .. the cat thing v adaptives is a bit of a red herring there ...

replacing the cats only releases about 5-8 hp so as you cna see they're not a major influence on the characteristic of the engine or it's fuelling requirements (other than the presence of the cats themselves dictates a certain fuelling strategy to protect them of course..).

[thegreengoblet]

trackcar said:

The decat will have very little effect on the adaptives .. there's little extra trapping efficiency down to the comparatively unrestrictive nature of the cats themselves, there's a small positive reflection of the cat front face but these 2 effects are more in evidence at high exhaust airflows, not the sorts of airflows you'd see on part throttle adaptive trim scenarios .. the cat thing v adaptives is a bit of a red herring there ...

replacing the cats only releases about 5-8 hp so as you cna see they're not a major influence on the characteristic of the engine or it's fuelling requirements (other than the presence of the cats themselves dictates a certain fuelling strategy to protect them of course..).

Now you're just showing off!

[trackcar]

thegreengoblet said:

trackcar said:

The decat will have very little effect on the adaptives .. there's little extra trapping efficiency down to the comparatively unrestrictive nature of the cats themselves, there's a small positive reflection of the cat front face but these 2 effects are more in evidence at high exhaust airflows, not the sorts of airflows you'd see on part throttle adaptive trim scenarios .. the cat thing v adaptives is a bit of a red herring there ...

replacing the cats only releases about 5-8 hp so as you cna see they're not a major influence on the characteristic of the engine or it's fuelling requirements (other than the presence of the cats themselves dictates a certain fuelling strategy to protect them of course..).

Now you're just showing off!

.. lol but not with my spelling which is well down to my usual finger-fumbling standards