Driving in the Rain
Discussion
I've read threads about driving the Elise everyday but what about the handling in the rain ? It also pi$$es me off when I wash the car and the next day it rains, must be the worst car i've owned to keep clean.
Not moaning, the neighbours already think i'm mad cleaning my car so often.......I should buy shares in wonder wheels. Any suggestions for keeping the wheels clean (brake dust) ???
To be totally honest my Elise has so much grip that I wouldn't consider it even close to dodgy in the dry or the wet. I don't hang around either! The thing's got so much grip due to impecable damping giving constant tyre/road contact, plus the mid engined layout gives the rear uncanny grip. I think the Elise is the first car that I've ever owned that I can floor in first gear without breaking traction. In fact I think you can even do that in the wet!
So fine, no problem at all.
So fine, no problem at all.
No suggetsions for stopping them getting dirty in the first place, but but two coats of this: www.motorgeek.co.uk/klasse-polish-p-208.html
followed by three of this: www.motorgeek.co.uk/poorboys-wheel-sealant-p-165.html
will make things easier to clean next time around. Regular re-applications (bi-monthly?) help too
followed by three of this: www.motorgeek.co.uk/poorboys-wheel-sealant-p-165.html
will make things easier to clean next time around. Regular re-applications (bi-monthly?) help too
147..? Yeah dead on mate
To be honest, they need money at service time, but don't all cars? I'd say that bills will be a tad higher than Corsa / Fiesta levels, but still manageable.
Alfa make beautiful cars that people tend to buy with the heart not the head! I've done that with every Alfa I've ever owned and haven't regretted it once. As for the drive? Well, I own an Elise and now everything else comes a poor second
If you like 'em - get one!
To be honest, they need money at service time, but don't all cars? I'd say that bills will be a tad higher than Corsa / Fiesta levels, but still manageable.
Alfa make beautiful cars that people tend to buy with the heart not the head! I've done that with every Alfa I've ever owned and haven't regretted it once. As for the drive? Well, I own an Elise and now everything else comes a poor second
If you like 'em - get one!
The 1.6 T-Spark can feel wet - but then again next to 2nd Cam on a 111R it's gonna! The 2.0 T-Spark is better - had that in a 156 and was cool enough.
The 2.4JTD is apparently the engine to have as it has great torque, but it's a diesel and no nice tune! 3.2 V6 Gta is daft, and pricey. If you have an Elise, you won't want to go that route anyway
Things to look for - worn suspension bushes, arms and tie bars - they wear badly and aren't cheap to replace. Not easily spotted but look for replacement bills in service history. Also, the Cam Variator wears producing an engine rattle - ok if changed with cambelt. Beyond that, all the usual common points to consider when buying any car.
Oh yeah, 111R or S in the wet..? Can't comment on an S as never owned one but I've never had any issues in the wet but I have the Advan Neova LTS tyres on my 111R which I gather are the best all rounder and I also drive with care in the wet. Simple I drove home through a torrential storm on the M4 during my trip back from a Walshy Day (so was pretty tuned in to the car and its behaviour). That could've been lively but I just took lots of care and didn't notice anything untoward
The 2.4JTD is apparently the engine to have as it has great torque, but it's a diesel and no nice tune! 3.2 V6 Gta is daft, and pricey. If you have an Elise, you won't want to go that route anyway
Things to look for - worn suspension bushes, arms and tie bars - they wear badly and aren't cheap to replace. Not easily spotted but look for replacement bills in service history. Also, the Cam Variator wears producing an engine rattle - ok if changed with cambelt. Beyond that, all the usual common points to consider when buying any car.
Oh yeah, 111R or S in the wet..? Can't comment on an S as never owned one but I've never had any issues in the wet but I have the Advan Neova LTS tyres on my 111R which I gather are the best all rounder and I also drive with care in the wet. Simple
I drove home through a torrential storm on the M4 during my trip back from a Walshy Day (so was pretty tuned in to the car and its behaviour). That could've been lively but I just took lots of care and didn't notice anything untoward Edited by Janitor on Thursday 15th June 23:07
rixge said:
After a Walshy day, i`m very very very careful in the wet, lift of over/under steer, the car will just snap both ways, a frightening experience, even under controlled conditions. Just don`t go mad, pretty good grip in the wet though, i just won`t recommend pushing it hard.
Rick.
Rick.
Can you please elaborate on this ? I'd like to know more,since it'll be some time before I get mine on a track.
Are you saying that no matter what ,never let off the accellerator when cornering ?
And if you do it'll do a 180 ?? So far I've taken some corners at speeds my old Civic could only dream of being capable of. I've never had a car with so much grip. I feel my limits are waaay sooner than the car's limits..Which is good
Still like to know how it'll act, if I pushed it to the limit.
Yes, that’s about the size of it. Some more advanced fellas than I could probably explain it better, but 'Lift-off' is the key. If you 'snap off' the accelerator mid-corner, the back will come round. Also, if you boot it in a low enough gear, the back will let go.
Furthermore, 'snapping off' the brake mid-corner will bring the back round too if you're braking hard. A Walshy Day demonstrates that well when you hurtle towards a 90 degree bend, anchor up hard so you get under-steer while trying to turn the bend and then he gets you to 'snap off' the brake and sure enough, round you go
You then learn to balance that effect by inducing under-steer, releasing the brake a little so the back starts to come round, then squeezing the brake a little more to bring it back into check and so on... next thing you know, you've balanced the car through the corner using the brake!
That is designed for track use and not the open road but the advantages of learning this are self-explanatory - I'm not going to preach but I hope the majority of people here know that the differences between track and road are all too real.
The basic rule is to be smooth and controlled on the road - not just steering inputs... brakes and throttle too. A Walshy Day teaches you how different inputs get different results with the aim being that you learn what is good and what isn't so you have a better appreciation and understanding of control when you need it most.
From thereon in of course it's all about practice, learn, practice, learn, practice etc - safely!
Furthermore, 'snapping off' the brake mid-corner will bring the back round too if you're braking hard. A Walshy Day demonstrates that well when you hurtle towards a 90 degree bend, anchor up hard so you get under-steer while trying to turn the bend and then he gets you to 'snap off' the brake and sure enough, round you go
You then learn to balance that effect by inducing under-steer, releasing the brake a little so the back starts to come round, then squeezing the brake a little more to bring it back into check and so on... next thing you know, you've balanced the car through the corner using the brake!
That is designed for track use and not the open road but the advantages of learning this are self-explanatory - I'm not going to preach but I hope the majority of people here know that the differences between track and road are all too real.
The basic rule is to be smooth and controlled on the road - not just steering inputs... brakes and throttle too. A Walshy Day teaches you how different inputs get different results with the aim being that you learn what is good and what isn't so you have a better appreciation and understanding of control when you need it most.
From thereon in of course it's all about practice, learn, practice, learn, practice etc - safely!
Edited by Janitor on Thursday 15th June 23:42
As Janitor points out, there are techniques you can learn to make the Elise driving experience a more rewarding and safer one.
You can't drive an Elise like front-engined, front wheel drive hatch, especially in the wet, and learning techniques to apply throttle, steering and brake in measure responses to what the car and conditions are telling you is the key.
I've done one fully Walshy day and 2 activity days (both in my S1), and each taught me more about the car, and about my driving. I strongly recommend you learn about it in a safe environment, not on the road.
In the new car (hugely more powerful, different tyres not especially suited to rain [R888's], different chassis dynamics and set-up) I am having to be especially careful and a full training day will be on the cars in July/Aug. Until then I'm exploring the car well within it's, and my limits.
I had one 'moment' this week in torrential rain when I carried a little too much speed into a large roundabout where I came off the power a little and the back began to slide... instinctively I applied a small opp lock correction and little more throttle and it came back. Fortunately the slip was only a few degrees and was a relatively low speed (around 30mph). I learned another valuable lesson.
Suggestion - Don't push it if you don't know what its going to do!
You can't drive an Elise like front-engined, front wheel drive hatch, especially in the wet, and learning techniques to apply throttle, steering and brake in measure responses to what the car and conditions are telling you is the key.
I've done one fully Walshy day and 2 activity days (both in my S1), and each taught me more about the car, and about my driving. I strongly recommend you learn about it in a safe environment, not on the road.
In the new car (hugely more powerful, different tyres not especially suited to rain [R888's], different chassis dynamics and set-up) I am having to be especially careful and a full training day will be on the cars in July/Aug. Until then I'm exploring the car well within it's, and my limits.
I had one 'moment' this week in torrential rain when I carried a little too much speed into a large roundabout where I came off the power a little and the back began to slide... instinctively I applied a small opp lock correction and little more throttle and it came back. Fortunately the slip was only a few degrees and was a relatively low speed (around 30mph). I learned another valuable lesson.
Suggestion - Don't push it if you don't know what its going to do!
I am on my second elise now, but I span first one through 180 degrees on the second day of ownership.
I was coming round a roundabout quite quickly, and although it was within the limits of grip, I backed off the power to take my exit. As I did the back overtook the front (lift of oversteer) and I span backwards into a post. Clam mullered and pride dented, but nobody else involved. Although it was quite low speed, it taught me a valuable lesson, which has helped a lot, but wish I had taken the walshy day instead, much cheaper and safer option.
Basically, with all cars, the amount of grip available at each corner is determined partly by the amount of weight acting on that corner. Sudden changes in throttle brake and steering can cause big differentials between the amount of weight on each corner and thus grip available at that corner. You can imagine that having different sized forces pulling at each corner has the ability to cause problems with the balance of the car, and if those forces stack up in the same direction they can cause a spin if your speed and trajctory dictate that you are already close to the limit of grip
With mid engined cars, it is a particular 'problem' becuase they have low rotational inertia. This is becuase their centre of gravity is pretty much equidistant from front and rear axles, meaning they will rotate about their centres very nicely if provoked. This is great when you know what you are doing as it makes it easier to point the car where you want it, but not so great when you don't (like me)
In the dry, its easy to get away with less than ideal driving becuase of the amount of grip available, but in the wet it makes the handling specifics of the elise a bit more obvious, and can very easily bite if you are not smooth. Smoothness is the key IMO
just my take on it.... me know nowt
Martin
I was coming round a roundabout quite quickly, and although it was within the limits of grip, I backed off the power to take my exit. As I did the back overtook the front (lift of oversteer) and I span backwards into a post. Clam mullered and pride dented, but nobody else involved. Although it was quite low speed, it taught me a valuable lesson, which has helped a lot, but wish I had taken the walshy day instead, much cheaper and safer option.
Basically, with all cars, the amount of grip available at each corner is determined partly by the amount of weight acting on that corner. Sudden changes in throttle brake and steering can cause big differentials between the amount of weight on each corner and thus grip available at that corner. You can imagine that having different sized forces pulling at each corner has the ability to cause problems with the balance of the car, and if those forces stack up in the same direction they can cause a spin if your speed and trajctory dictate that you are already close to the limit of grip
With mid engined cars, it is a particular 'problem' becuase they have low rotational inertia. This is becuase their centre of gravity is pretty much equidistant from front and rear axles, meaning they will rotate about their centres very nicely if provoked. This is great when you know what you are doing as it makes it easier to point the car where you want it, but not so great when you don't (like me)
In the dry, its easy to get away with less than ideal driving becuase of the amount of grip available, but in the wet it makes the handling specifics of the elise a bit more obvious, and can very easily bite if you are not smooth. Smoothness is the key IMO
just my take on it.... me know nowt
Martin
Due to my experience I have to second (third, fourth or whatever) what has been said so far. I manage to write off my first elise within four hours in what seemed like a very innocuouce incident. Went onto a roundabout very slowly (in the wet) came off the roundabout, accelerated before straight, back end came out, let off throttle, back end snapped round the other way, slid very slowly into the only lampost on a 3 mile stretch of road! Very low impact, no one hurt, but car a write off due to chassis damage 
If I had been on a training day I would have know what to do in this situation and it would have been a different matter, as it is, it's cost me a lot of money and hassle to sort it out. Point is, just budget in a training day to the cost of your car and you will get a lot more out of lotus ownership. I currently use my new elise as a daily driver, rain or dry, but give it a hell of a lot of respect when wet.
Oh, and I happen to own a 147 as well and can second the decision to buy one. Can pick them up for buttons now considering they were nearly 20k new. Go for the 2.0 T spark as it has the balancer shaft engine which is a peach! Make sure it has an FSH though, absolutely crucial on these cars, don't be afraid of high milage as they will take it if well looked after. Mine's done almost 95k now without major incident.
If I had been on a training day I would have know what to do in this situation and it would have been a different matter, as it is, it's cost me a lot of money and hassle to sort it out. Point is, just budget in a training day to the cost of your car and you will get a lot more out of lotus ownership. I currently use my new elise as a daily driver, rain or dry, but give it a hell of a lot of respect when wet.
Oh, and I happen to own a 147 as well
and can second the decision to buy one. Can pick them up for buttons now considering they were nearly 20k new. Go for the 2.0 T spark as it has the balancer shaft engine which is a peach! Make sure it has an FSH though, absolutely crucial on these cars, don't be afraid of high milage as they will take it if well looked after. Mine's done almost 95k now without major incident. Gassing Station | Elise/Exige/Europa/340R | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff