Current F1 Drivers - Who Should Go?
Discussion
There are a few people on the F1 grid who, while undoubtedly being excellent drivers, appear to have gone a bit stale. I see them being there simply to make up the numbers.
Not including the bottom of the field teams, I'd like new blood to replace Ralf and Trulli and would like to see the back of Massa and Klien who I don't think are good enough and add little. Aside from a few flashes of brilliance, Montoya and Fisichella could join this list too.
Of the current F1 driver line-up, which of the drivers do you think have passed their sell-by date/overstayed their welcome?
Not including the bottom of the field teams, I'd like new blood to replace Ralf and Trulli and would like to see the back of Massa and Klien who I don't think are good enough and add little. Aside from a few flashes of brilliance, Montoya and Fisichella could join this list too.
Of the current F1 driver line-up, which of the drivers do you think have passed their sell-by date/overstayed their welcome?
Trulli 
Although I think the man most likely to not be in F1 next year is Montoya, his only options of a drive outside McLaren are Red Bull (no interest there if they keep Coulthard on) and Toyota but Trulli is holding out for more money. If he stays Montoya won't have a drive. In the US his old Ganassi team (with which he won the CART title) are looking at moving Dan Wheldon into the lead drive of their Nascar team, this would open an opportunity for him to move back to Ganassi with their IRL team. Very complicated goings on at McLaren who seem to be the key to a lot of movement once their lineup for next year is confirmed (if Raikonnen stays or goes).
Although I think the man most likely to not be in F1 next year is Montoya, his only options of a drive outside McLaren are Red Bull (no interest there if they keep Coulthard on) and Toyota but Trulli is holding out for more money. If he stays Montoya won't have a drive. In the US his old Ganassi team (with which he won the CART title) are looking at moving Dan Wheldon into the lead drive of their Nascar team, this would open an opportunity for him to move back to Ganassi with their IRL team. Very complicated goings on at McLaren who seem to be the key to a lot of movement once their lineup for next year is confirmed (if Raikonnen stays or goes).
Edited by FourWheelDrift on Friday 16th June 11:18
It depends on what your criteria are for determining what constitutes "outstayed their welcome". From the results perspective, we could drop all except Raikkonen, Alonso and M Schumacher.
Getting more scientific, who ought to have done better with the car they had under them? Montoya, Fisico, Massa
Who is unikely to win a race with the equipment they have and thus could be pensioned off? DC, JV, Trulli, R Schumacher
Who ought to have shown some promise, even allowing for the car's deficiency? Webber, Klien, Button, Rubinho, Speed, Liuzzi, Montagny, Albers
Which leaves Heidfeld, Monteiro, Sato, Rosberg to join Alonso, M Schumacher and Raikkonen as being the only drivers on the grid who are doing as well as they can with what they have got.
But then didn't Webber qualify well at Monaco? What about Button's qualifying performances at the start of the season and don't forget Ralf's 3rd place the other week...and DC's finish at Monaco.....
..it isn't that easy to determine who should be there and who shouldn't is it?
Getting more scientific, who ought to have done better with the car they had under them? Montoya, Fisico, Massa
Who is unikely to win a race with the equipment they have and thus could be pensioned off? DC, JV, Trulli, R Schumacher
Who ought to have shown some promise, even allowing for the car's deficiency? Webber, Klien, Button, Rubinho, Speed, Liuzzi, Montagny, Albers
Which leaves Heidfeld, Monteiro, Sato, Rosberg to join Alonso, M Schumacher and Raikkonen as being the only drivers on the grid who are doing as well as they can with what they have got.
But then didn't Webber qualify well at Monaco? What about Button's qualifying performances at the start of the season and don't forget Ralf's 3rd place the other week...and DC's finish at Monaco.....
..it isn't that easy to determine who should be there and who shouldn't is it?
rubystone said:
Which leaves Heidfeld, Monteiro, Sato, Rosberg to join Alonso, M Schumacher and Raikkonen as being the only drivers on the grid who are doing as well as they can with what they have got.
Goldfish memory problems?
The only reason he is back this year is Aguri Suzuki's desire to have a Japanese driver in F1 no matter what. 
FourWheelDrift said:
Although I think the man most likely to not be in F1 next year is Montoya, his only options of a drive outside McLaren are Red Bull (no interest there if they keep Coulthard on) and Toyota but Trulli is holding out for more money. If he stays Montoya won't have a drive. In the US his old Ganassi team (with which he won the CART title) are looking at moving Dan Wheldon into the lead drive of their Nascar team, this would open an opportunity for him to move back to Ganassi with their IRL team. Very complicated goings on at McLaren who seem to be the key to a lot of movement once their lineup for next year is confirmed (if Raikonnen stays or goes).
I guess Montoya too.
Interesting what you say about the man. When he first came to F1, I watched his first ever qualifying session and was amazed at how well he went. I very nearly went out and put money on him winning the championship that year! Thank god I did'nt, but it begs the question, what the hell has happened to him the last few years?
gtr-gaz said:
Interesting what you say about the man. When he first came to F1, I watched his first ever qualifying session and was amazed at how well he went. I very nearly went out and put money on him winning the championship that year! Thank god I did'nt, but it begs the question, what the hell has happened to him the last few years?
He ate too many pies...lol
I think Schuey should go, as must as I like him, it is time to retire.
Actually, scrap the over 30's and give young talent a chance (Lewis).
I say get rid of Button... he's not that good, a brief flash of talent a couple of years ago, followed by years of excuses and blame...
someone mentioned Klein - i'd actually like to see what he could do with a decent car under him, he's got the skill, consistancy, and in something like a McLaren he'd be a regular on the podium..
and speaking of Mclaren, Kimi should pack his bags - im sorry, mechnical failures are not just due to the car, we all know how you drive a car can effect its reliability, and i put the blame squarely at his feet for his misfortunes.
someone mentioned Klein - i'd actually like to see what he could do with a decent car under him, he's got the skill, consistancy, and in something like a McLaren he'd be a regular on the podium..
and speaking of Mclaren, Kimi should pack his bags - im sorry, mechnical failures are not just due to the car, we all know how you drive a car can effect its reliability, and i put the blame squarely at his feet for his misfortunes.
Ok - time for some controversy (or possibly not, but I am bracing myself) -
Ralf Schumacher has never been any good and certainly doesn't warrant his alleged pay cheque.
Trulli is the ultimate 1 lap wonder - maybe he should think about the British Hilclimb Championship (where, in fairness to the hillclimb guys, he'd probably be comprehensively outdriven).
Montoya - rare flashes of brilliance - good last year but never performs consistently
Rubens Barrichello - where would you start - pretty useless from day one and no real racer would have sat in Schumacher's wheeltracks for so long.
Button - consistent failure to perform on race day. Clearly lacks teh communication skills to communicate with the engineers what is necessary to get the job done.
Webber - (see Button) but went pretty well at Monaco.
Fisichella (see Barrichello but read Alonso for Schumacher)
Heidfeld - useless since he arrived in F1
Villeneuve - makes a great play of being a real reacer without ever really displaying anything to back it up
Coulthard - (see Villeneuve)
Klein (see Heidfeld)
Albers (see Heidfeld)
Of the current crop that leaves us with M Schumacher, Alonso, Rosberg, Liuzzi, Raikkonen, Sato, Montagny and Speed (the last 2 there only because we lack signiificant evidence to say that they're not any good rather than having any positive evidence that they are).
Ralf Schumacher has never been any good and certainly doesn't warrant his alleged pay cheque.
Trulli is the ultimate 1 lap wonder - maybe he should think about the British Hilclimb Championship (where, in fairness to the hillclimb guys, he'd probably be comprehensively outdriven).
Montoya - rare flashes of brilliance - good last year but never performs consistently
Rubens Barrichello - where would you start - pretty useless from day one and no real racer would have sat in Schumacher's wheeltracks for so long.
Button - consistent failure to perform on race day. Clearly lacks teh communication skills to communicate with the engineers what is necessary to get the job done.
Webber - (see Button) but went pretty well at Monaco.
Fisichella (see Barrichello but read Alonso for Schumacher)
Heidfeld - useless since he arrived in F1
Villeneuve - makes a great play of being a real reacer without ever really displaying anything to back it up
Coulthard - (see Villeneuve)
Klein (see Heidfeld)
Albers (see Heidfeld)
Of the current crop that leaves us with M Schumacher, Alonso, Rosberg, Liuzzi, Raikkonen, Sato, Montagny and Speed (the last 2 there only because we lack signiificant evidence to say that they're not any good rather than having any positive evidence that they are).
FourWheelDrift said:
rubystone said:
Which leaves Heidfeld, Monteiro, Sato, Rosberg to join Alonso, M Schumacher and Raikkonen as being the only drivers on the grid who are doing as well as they can with what they have got.
Goldfish memory problems?
The only reason he is back this year is Aguri Suzuki's desire to have a Japanese driver in F1 no matter what. Read my post again. This thread isn't about who "Deserves" to be in F1, but who should leave F1 - I was just trying to show how that type of question can be answered in many diferent ways!
Sato's clearly dragging the Suzuki round in times that are better than it should be achieving. I didn't bother to go into the fact that Montagny's no idiot - he had several years' testing for Renault after all, yet can't get within what, half a second, of Sato's times in the Suzuki...and don't forget, this is Sato's first year in that car too.
I think any current drivers who has had less than 3 years in F1 should be allowed to stay and prove themselves.
Other than that, it's hard to say.
Barrichello, JV, Trulli, and Ralf Schumacher would probably never be able to contend for the title, or even the championship podium, despite having had a lot of years in F1. They should retire.
Michael Schumacher is getting long in the tooth, despite his fantastic performance.
Coulthard and Heidfield is nearing a stage where he could be said to have passed his prime, and would no longer be in contention for the championship podium, regardless of car and team. Potential candidates for the axe.
Button and Webber has shown promise, but have been let down by their cars or bad luck. They should stay and be given more chances to prove themselves.
Fisi, Massa, and Montoya are driving to the standard expected in their machinery. Fisi has proven he can be fast and win, but needs more consistency. Massa is more consistent but not as fast. Montoya has both qualities, but perhaps needs better luck. They should be allowed to stay.
Alonso is current champion, and Raikkonen is among accepted three best drivers in F1 currently. Definitely should stay.
So....
In: Alonso, Button, Fisi, Massa, Montoya, Raikkonen, Webber, and drivers with three years or less experience in F1.
Maybe: Coulthard, Heidfield, and M Schumacher.
Out: Barrichello, R Schumacher, and Villeneuve.
Other than that, it's hard to say.
Barrichello, JV, Trulli, and Ralf Schumacher would probably never be able to contend for the title, or even the championship podium, despite having had a lot of years in F1. They should retire.
Michael Schumacher is getting long in the tooth, despite his fantastic performance.
Coulthard and Heidfield is nearing a stage where he could be said to have passed his prime, and would no longer be in contention for the championship podium, regardless of car and team. Potential candidates for the axe.
Button and Webber has shown promise, but have been let down by their cars or bad luck. They should stay and be given more chances to prove themselves.
Fisi, Massa, and Montoya are driving to the standard expected in their machinery. Fisi has proven he can be fast and win, but needs more consistency. Massa is more consistent but not as fast. Montoya has both qualities, but perhaps needs better luck. They should be allowed to stay.
Alonso is current champion, and Raikkonen is among accepted three best drivers in F1 currently. Definitely should stay.
So....
In: Alonso, Button, Fisi, Massa, Montoya, Raikkonen, Webber, and drivers with three years or less experience in F1.
Maybe: Coulthard, Heidfield, and M Schumacher.
Out: Barrichello, R Schumacher, and Villeneuve.
what is all this with dissing Webber and Button? Both of them are awesome drivers. They regularly qualify further up the grid than they deserve and then get critisced for poor driving... because they spend the whole race slipping down to the true position of their car.
Put either in a renault and I think they would beat Alonso, and be more interesting too.
Put either in a renault and I think they would beat Alonso, and be more interesting too.
LongQ said:
FourWheelDrift said:
In the US his old Ganassi team (with which he won the CART title) are looking at moving Dan Wheldon into the lead drive of their Nascar team, ...
Why does Wheldon want to do NASCAR?
If he stays with Ganassi he'll drive where they tell him to. If not he'll move to another team.
D_Mike said:
what is all this with dissing Webber and Button? Both of them are awesome drivers. They regularly qualify further up the grid than they deserve and then get critisced for poor driving... because they spend the whole race slipping down to the true position of their car.
Put either in a renault and I think they would beat Alonso, and be more interesting too.
Put either in a renault and I think they would beat Alonso, and be more interesting too.
I agree re: Webber and Button, but I do not believe either to be a better driver than Alonso who, while being excruciatingly boring, is a bloody good driver.
I also think Coulthard has 'grown some wings' since moving to RB and have been pleasantly surprised by his frankness and openness which certainly wasn't so forthright while he was at McLaren. I'd keep him in.
Andy M said:
I also think Coulthard has 'grown some wings' since moving to RB and have been pleasantly surprised by his frankness and openness which certainly wasn't so forthright while he was at McLaren. I'd keep him in.
I've got to say that I agree. When Coulthard left McLaren I couldn't believe that anyone would give a seat to such a lame duck who was big on promises but never really delivered anything more than a solid, yet uninspiring drive.
However, he does seem to have changed somewhat and I'd agree that he has a place in F1 as a solid, mid-field driver who will be guaranteed to be easy on the machinery and bring the car home when others would break the car or shunt it. This is going to always appeal to a mid or lower team. I can't see him getting a top team drive again though.
Edit: is 'grown some wings' an intended pun?
Edited by JonRB on Friday 16th June 16:09
fidgits said:
someone mentioned Klein - i'd actually like to see what he could do with a decent car under him, he's got the skill, consistancy, and in something like a McLaren he'd be a regular on the podium..
and speaking of Mclaren, Kimi should pack his bags - im sorry, mechnical failures are not just due to the car, we all know how you drive a car can effect its reliability, and i put the blame squarely at his feet for his misfortunes.
and speaking of Mclaren, Kimi should pack his bags - im sorry, mechnical failures are not just due to the car, we all know how you drive a car can effect its reliability, and i put the blame squarely at his feet for his misfortunes.
So you'd get rid of one of the best three drivers in F1 and replace him with someone who has been outperformed by David Coulthard, who himself was outperformed by Raikkonen?
Also, how can you be so sure that Raikkonen's driving has caused his mechanical failures?
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