Friday 16th June 2006

Yet more cameras to be installed

Residential areas to be monitored

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SPECS cameras in London

New 'average speed' cameras are to be installed at the edges of residential areas. The idea is that they're an alternative to speed humps, according to a story in the Times yesterday.

According to the report, neighbourhood entry and exit points are to be covered by the SPECS cameras. They will automatically calculate the vehicle's average speed within the area, and despatch the alleged offender’s registration number to the penalties office.

Local authorities will target those 20mph zones that have experienced crashes supposedly caused by drivers either exceeding the speed limit or 'accelerating aggressively' between traffic calming measures such as humps and chicanes.

There have been technology trials in London's Camden borough and Belfast, the Home Office looks set to approve the new technology in November, and  the story reckons that we'll see the first fines being dished out early in 2007.

Paul Smith, founder of the road safety campaign Safe Speed responded: "It has long been a fundamental principle of road safety that the speed limit should match drivers' perceptions of an appropriate speed for the environment. For this reason Department for Transport (DfT) guidance has been that 20mph zones should be 'self enforcing'.

"'Self enforcing' has previously meant humps or other traffic calming features in 20mph zones. These plans indicate that this principle is being abandoned. To do so would be a dangerous error. Road safety depends on drivers skill and ability in selecting a safe and appropriate speed according to the environment.

"This scheme will do nothing for road safety. It simply takes too much driver attention to maintain 20mph - try it for yourself. Even after that, many speedos are not sufficiently accurate at 20mph to keep drivers safe from prosecution.

"Because the cameras are at the entrance and exit of the zone, they will only be able to record speeds of vehicles crossing the zone. If you're stopping in the zone your speed can't be measured. If your journey starts and ends in the zone your speed can't be measured. Only a small percentage of traffic will be monitored.

"As a road safety initiative I give this scheme nought out of ten. Must try harder."

• Times story: Cameras set to catch side-street speeders

^{Photo courtesy of the Association of British Drivers}

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

Safe Speed seems to do a lot of talking (all of which I agree with) but never seems to get any results.

They moan, groan and complain and Labour just sticks up another million cameras.

We need a body that actually gets results! Please feel free to correct if they have been getting results and I am speaking out of whack here...

This is getting ridiculous now... Are we supposed to study the road or the goddamned speedo? This is how I got caught... I was foolishly studying the road and did 36mph in a 30 in moving traffic without overtaking so much as a snail.

[fatboy b]

But will these cameras stop the tts who "hang out" in residential areas wheel-spinning their Novas and Clios?

[sneakypete]

As there are more and more cameras put up drivers will just stop caring.

There will be a saturation point where everybody will not give a damn and the whole thing will collapse. If everybody just stopped paying fines and dug the bloody things up, then they would stop.

Democracy anybody? I don't know anybody who voted for these things. I vote for better driving tests. And the introduction of a 'high performance' test for anybody wanting a certain class or car - as in the case of bikes above 125cc. Restrictions on young/new drivers and less road signs.

People WONT slow down. So accept it. We are human beings, NOT robots. What about all the drivers who don't have regular eye tests or run their cars with dangerously underinflated tyres? Or are just shit at driving?

Average speed! Everybody will just be looking at their trip computers and running little kids over.

I don't know about you out there but I like to keep my eyes on not running into other cars or people.

*** RANT OVER ***

[tvr_nut]

Suspect it is aimed at the "Rat-runners", so will go down well with those living in such zones (for whom I have some sympathy - it must be a real pain to live on such popular short-cuts) - but it seems to go against the government's comments about preferring road improvements (which humps are NOT) to scameras?

[MilnerR]

Half the zone at 60mph and half at 15 mph anyone?

[7db]

MilnerR said:

Half the zone at 60mph and half at 15 mph anyone?

For an average speed of 24?

PS - try your second half at 20 mph...

Edited by 7db on Friday 16th June 12:31

[anonymous-user]

It certainly will go down well with the local residents. I'm sure I've read before that the number of locals who get caught after campaigning for a Gatso on their street is amusingly high. My guess would be that as familiarity breeds contempt, they become complacent about the risks on their own roads. Strangers to the area are a little more wary and keep eyes open for the cameras. If this uses a camera at entrance and exit of the residential area, the locals can drive as fast as they like as they'll only ever pass one camera.

[GreenV8S]

I think people WILL slow down, and theyll spend more time looking for cameras and speed limits and small fluctuations in their speedo reading and less time looking for kids. You can kill somebody just as thoroughly at 20 mph as at 40. Attitude, alertness and choosing an appropriate speed moment by moment are far more important than a number on a dial.

[dickymint]

Chavs will probably invent a new game of chicken........see how close to the exit camera you can stop from 60mph without tripping the camera

[riverproaudio]

Just makes me mad!

[Andrew D]

The Article said:

or 'accelerating aggressively' between traffic calming measures such as humps and chicanes

I wonder if this means caning it between the speed bumps above the limit, or simply exercising your right to drive at the speed limit?

The limit on my road is 30mph, but for some reason there are these bumps in the way in points so I can't to the 30mph that I pay £195 in VED each year to be allowed to do. So I make sure that I can do 30mph wherever possible, because after all I don't want to waste my life sat in my car! But there are so many bumps that I'd constantly be up and down the gears if I changed, so I don't bother. The residents might find it a little annoying as I drive past in first, but that's part and parcel of the speed bumps for which they campaigned, even though I rarely see another car on that road.

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

riverproaudio said:

Just makes me mad!

You know what, I can't be arsed with a smart and incisive comment. This just plain makes me mad as hell too.

[Nic Jones]

Time to take the number plates off my car I think, at least the front one.

Yes I am being serious, yes I know its wrong, just say it was nicked and you promise ot get a new one

[havoc]

Andrew D said:

The Article said:

or 'accelerating aggressively' between traffic calming measures such as humps and chicanes

I wonder if this means caning it between the speed bumps above the limit, or simply exercising your right to drive at the speed limit?

The limit on my road is 30mph, but for some reason there are these bumps in the way in points so I can't to the 30mph that I pay £195 in VED each year to be allowed to do. So I make sure that I can do 30mph wherever possible, because after all I don't want to waste my life sat in my car! But there are so many bumps that I'd constantly be up and down the gears if I changed, so I don't bother. The residents might find it a little annoying as I drive past in first, but that's part and parcel of the speed bumps for which they campaigned, even though I rarely see another car on that road.

Funnily enough there's a major residential through-road in Coventry which got humps a couple of years back. I try and avoid it now, but if I can't do just that...sit in a low gear and make as much nuisance as possible. I almost certainly average less than 30...but I DO try hard to get close!!!

[smeggy]

7db said:

MilnerR said:

Half the zone at 60mph and half at 15 mph anyone?

For an average speed of 24?

PS - try your second half at 20 mph...

or 12mph for an average of 20mph [/nerd]

[tuscnick]

Just the same old crap by the goverment, its all about taxing us motorist through the back door. They realise what a money spinner this is and will just not let it go.

I agree with the comments about watching the road rather than the speedo, you would get nicked if you where watching a TV or texting on a mobile (therefore not giving the road your attention) ,

But you are now expected to watch the speedo so close its bl00dy dangerous. Perhaps they want motorists to knock over the children and grannies !!!! cos the driver is so fixated on the speedo.

Its money generation, and its making the roads less than safe !!

Its about time to create a new polictical party - anyone intrested!!!

Edited by tuscnick on Friday 16th June 13:44

[chris_crossley]

I am sure they will be happy to get camera's installed on every estate. They can track car movements. Big Brother will arrive before the major population can say no!

Like tax, you increase it bit by bit untill it's too late

[r988]

sneakypete said:

As there are more and more cameras put up drivers will just stop caring.

There will be a saturation point where everybody will not give a damn and the whole thing will collapse. If everybody just stopped paying fines and dug the bloody things up, then they would stop.

Democracy anybody? I don't know anybody who voted for these things. I vote for better driving tests. And the introduction of a 'high performance' test for anybody wanting a certain class or car - as in the case of bikes above 125cc. Restrictions on young/new drivers and less road signs.

People WONT slow down. So accept it. We are human beings, NOT robots. What about all the drivers who don't have regular eye tests or run their cars with dangerously underinflated tyres? Or are just shit at driving?

Average speed! Everybody will just be looking at their trip computers and running little kids over.

I don't know about you out there but I like to keep my eyes on not running into other cars or people.

*** RANT OVER ***

If you have ever ventured out of PH land and talked to non-car enthusiasts then you might in fact find that many people actually think speed cameras are a good idea and swallow the speed kills bollox hook line and sinker!

Try asking on some completely non car related forum about whether speed cameras are agood idea or not and tell me if you get much support. Even on conspiracy websites where they believe the government are actually reptilians in disguise from outerspace waiting for the right moment to implement a NWO and turn us into slaves in concentration camps think speed cameras are a good idea and that speeding drivers are a menace to society. We here in PH repeat a lot of our ideas to ourselves and slap ourselves on the back for solving the problems with road safety but how often to we try to publicise these things and convince other people? Safespeed seems to be trying it's best but the rest of us sit here and moan and dont seem to do bugger all about it.

[justinp1]

riverproaudio said:

Just makes me mad!

Off topic, but I have just ordered some print cartridges from your website - its a small world!

Hoping Pistonheads is like the Masons and we can do a handshake and get a good discount......

[gopher]

AdvocatusDiaboli said:

Safe Speed seems to do a lot of talking (all of which I agree with) but never seems to get any results.

I think the fact that a large part of the media do now look to Safespeed for comment shows that Paul is in fact getting results.

Each time that Safespeed is quoted it means people, hopefully pro camera people, will get angry find safespeed on the interent and actually read what Paul has to say. Even if they just leave with a mind slightly confused about the issues of speed and cameras then that's a plus.

There have also been a few people join the forums to protest against the Safespeed message and one of them actually passed his IAM test and is now going on to be an observer, just from having the issue explained.

You're right a body is required, it could be Safespeed, or ABD but either way that body requires resources and they have to come from somewhere, and if you feel passionate enough about it then why not show it?

Cheers

Paul