Question for the BIB

[julianhj]

What act relates to driving with false licence plates? I've been trawling PNLD without success, and I'm sure it must be something obvious...

TIA

[vonhosen]

Can you be a bit more descriptive with circumstances.

Licence plates themselves come under Road Vehicle (Registration & Licensing) regulations 1971, but other offences are also possible dependent on circumstances.

Edited by vonhosen on Friday 16th June 17:12

[^Slider^]

Going Equipped i would say.

It is an offence for any person when not at his place of abode to have with him any article for use in the course of or in connection with any burglary, theft or cheat.

Burglary
Obtain property by deception
Theft
TWOC

Section 25 Theft act SS1.

If not any of the above i would suggest maybe registration offences as per VH post

Edited by ^Slider^ on Friday 16th June 17:16

[julianhj]

Part of a scenario I have to go through, identifying all the offences committed...

X fits false plates to a Transit he hired using a driving licence he found. He's planning on keeping the Transit and doing a burglary with it. I have the other offences, I think, just can't locate the correct legislation for using false plates.

[^Slider^]

And the hiring of the van is obtaining property by deception

[vonhosen]

You are probably thinking along the lines of Sec 44 of the Vehicle Excise & Registration Act 1994 with regard to the licence plate offence.

Section 44 of the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 provides the offences of forgery and fraudulent use of vehicle licences, trade licences, trade plates and associated documents.

It is an offence to forge or fraudulently use, alter, lend, or allow to be used by another person the following documents:

(a) a vehicle licence,
(b) a trade licence,
(c) a nil licence,
(d) a registration mark,
(e) a registration document, and
(f) a trade plate (including a replacement trade plate).

SUMMARY: A fine not exceeding the statutory maximum.
INDICTMENT: Two years imprisonment and / or a fine.

Edited by vonhosen on Friday 16th June 17:37

[over_the_hill]

By knowingly fitting a false plate could you also be done for
attempting to pervert the course of justice ? (max 10 years ??)

[vonhosen]

over_the_hill said:

By knowingly fitting a false plate could you also be done for
attempting to pervert the course of justice ? (max 10 years ??)

Attempting to pervert the course of justice is a very complex offence, I can't seeing it being used in circumstances like fitting a false plate (& it carries a maximum sentence of LIFE imprisonment).

Edited by vonhosen on Friday 16th June 17:58

[^Slider^]

It is an offence for a person to intentionally interfere or attempt to interfere with the administration of justice, the course of which has been embarked upon.

I dont think that perverting the course would apply as its part of going equipped and untill they have commited the offence it does not apply i would have said.

[mg6b]

^Slider^ said:

And the hiring of the van is obtaining property by deception

Why???? and more inportantly how???

I think you have got this wrong.

If the chap payed proper money for the van even though he was going to use it to commit an offence and had that intention when he hired it, it is not criminal deception.

Edited by mg6b on Saturday 17th June 11:14

[vonhosen]

mg6b said:

^Slider^ said:

And the hiring of the van is obtaining property by deception

Why???? and more inportantly how???

I think you have got this wrong.

If the chap payed proper money for the van even though he was going to use it to commit an offence and had that intention when he hired it, it is not criminal deception.

Edited by mg6b on Saturday 17th June 11:14

If he has hired the van with a false driving licence, with the intention of keeping it (as stated by the OP) then he has aquired the property with a deception & intends to permanently deprive.

[mg6b]

vonhosen said:

If he has hired the van with a false driving licence, with the intention of keeping it (as stated by the OP) then he has aquired the property with a deception & intends to permanently deprive.

If he has hired it by paying proper money, regardless of the intent before or afterwards, he has deceived no one. This is purely theft and not deception.

If he used a false instrument to avoid payment for hire or deceived someone into giving him the property without paying for it, then it would be a deception. His only deception is using a a false instrument (i.e. the driving licence)to conceal his personal identity. concealing identity is not a criminal deception in itself. He does not deceive anyone to get the property, merely conceals his true identity. His intention is theft and not deception

Deception covers the instance of obtaining goods or services by failing to pay for their value by a deception making the vendor think that payment is good.

Edited by mg6b on Saturday 17th June 17:12

[^Slider^]

mg6b said:

vonhosen said:

If he has hired the van with a false driving licence, with the intention of keeping it (as stated by the OP) then he has aquired the property with a deception & intends to permanently deprive.

If he has hired it by paying proper money, regardless of the intent before or afterwards, he has deceived no one. This is purely theft and not deception.

If he used a false instrument to avoid payment for hire or deceived someone into giving him the property without paying for it, then it would be a deception. His only deception is using a a false instrument (i.e. the driving licence)to conceal his personal identity. concealing identity is not a criminal deception in itself. He does not deceive anyone to get the property, merely conceals his true identity. His intention is theft and not deception

Deception covers the instance of obtaining goods or services by failing to pay for their value by a deception making the vendor think that payment is good.

Edited by mg6b on Saturday 17th June 17:12

But he has used a false DL to obtain said property. So he decieved the vendor by way of using false ID. He decieved the vendor as to whom the person really was hiring the van with the intent to deprive said vendor.

I would have said it was part of the commission of the offence ie the deception.

Had he used his legit id to hire the van then yes id agree it was theft of rather than deception.

[fluffnik]

^Slider^ said:

Had he used his legit id to hire the van then yes id agree it was theft of rather than deception.

And stupid to the extent of being unfit to plead???