RWD Wedge = Don't change gear in corner!
Discussion
Mind slipped back to normal FWD mode for a moment this morning in wedge and changed gear whilst negotiating roundabout. Very scary experience, almost lost total control until let off gas. Driven it for 3 years and never had anything like that. Drove like a tortoise back home thinking about what might have happened!
Be careful out there, because wedges bite!
Be careful out there, because wedges bite!
Well surely you wouldn't change gear in the middle of a corner in any car. The balance of the car is immediately upset; so much so that if you are "pressing on" you may go off!
When invited to a driving day with Jaguar some years ago, my main complaint with the XK and XKR was that they had a propensity for changing gear in mid corner. This was a problem with most, if not all, automatic cars with a bit of performance, especially those with 4 or 5 speed auto boxes, until stability control came along to prevent it from happenning. You get the car set up nicely for the corner, brake, balance and power through gently, only to find that the box has changed up before you have got near the exit and upset the balance. This means that you have to boot it on the exit a little later and more gently since then a downchange may occur. Best in many cases to use the manual override in such cars if driving quickly so you control which gear you are in through the corner.
When invited to a driving day with Jaguar some years ago, my main complaint with the XK and XKR was that they had a propensity for changing gear in mid corner. This was a problem with most, if not all, automatic cars with a bit of performance, especially those with 4 or 5 speed auto boxes, until stability control came along to prevent it from happenning. You get the car set up nicely for the corner, brake, balance and power through gently, only to find that the box has changed up before you have got near the exit and upset the balance. This means that you have to boot it on the exit a little later and more gently since then a downchange may occur. Best in many cases to use the manual override in such cars if driving quickly so you control which gear you are in through the corner.
My old SD1 had a habit of kicking down the auto box mid roundabout, always a bugger!!!
If anyone saw the Tuscan round from Pembrey on Motors TV recently, one of the spins I had was caused by the clutch slipping when I was balancing the car mid corner (the other was becasue the muppet behind the wheel went into the hairpin too hot and forgot to stop braking before turning in!)
Glad you're ok though.
Regards
Iain
If anyone saw the Tuscan round from Pembrey on Motors TV recently, one of the spins I had was caused by the clutch slipping when I was balancing the car mid corner (the other was becasue the muppet behind the wheel went into the hairpin too hot and forgot to stop braking before turning in!)
Glad you're ok though.
Regards
Iain
Yeh, I had a Mustang when I was in America earlier this year, and the gearbox was SO bad a deciding when to change gear, I used to drive it in locked mode. The only good thing about the 'box was that 3 meant 3rd ONLY.
Other than that it was a laugh, especially the wet weather handling!!!
So Im looking forward to getting the 390SE on the road next spring!
Ed.
Other than that it was a laugh, especially the wet weather handling!!!
So Im looking forward to getting the 390SE on the road next spring!
Ed.
It's not so much changing gear, it's backing-off when cornering that upsets a Wedge. I often change gear on big roundabouts but I'm expecting the car to squirm so I allow for it.
I don't know if the LSD improves or makes things worse: certainly my 390 feels more sure-footed than the Tasmin ever did (OK, A-frame vs. T/arm as well, I know...)
Another handling trait I've noticed in some Wedges is snap oversteer on roundabouts, where the steering seems to go 'over-centre' and suddenly pulls you in towards the island.
My car will run wide if pushed, not sure which is better
I don't know if the LSD improves or makes things worse: certainly my 390 feels more sure-footed than the Tasmin ever did (OK, A-frame vs. T/arm as well, I know...)
Another handling trait I've noticed in some Wedges is snap oversteer on roundabouts, where the steering seems to go 'over-centre' and suddenly pulls you in towards the island.
My car will run wide if pushed, not sure which is better
As long as you match the rev's for the gear change you're okay. Of course it is best to be in the right gear before entering the roundabout/corner. As steve heath points out in his Griff bible, a gear change causing engine braking is a common cause of accidents even when travelling in a straight line in a TVR.
It is strange that when people are taught to drive that you're told to change gear on the roundabout - but in a 1.X litre FWD car you're not likely to come unstuck.
It is strange that when people are taught to drive that you're told to change gear on the roundabout - but in a 1.X litre FWD car you're not likely to come unstuck.
cdt said:
As long as you match the rev's for the gear change you're okay. Of course it is best to be in the right gear before entering the roundabout/corner. As steve heath points out in his Griff bible, a gear change causing engine braking is a common cause of accidents even when travelling in a straight line in a TVR.
It is strange that when people are taught to drive that you're told to change gear on the roundabout - but in a 1.X litre FWD car you're not likely to come unstuck.
It is strange that when people are taught to drive that you're told to change gear on the roundabout - but in a 1.X litre FWD car you're not likely to come unstuck.
I think that was the problem. I booted it from a roundabout junction to avoid oncoming traffic then slowed down and changed gear. There must of been too much inertia still in the engine for the gear change. It sent me into towards the centre of the roundabout. I then backed off speed and it was ok.
Would this happen on a modern rwd car as well?
planman350i said:
cdt said:
As long as you match the rev's for the gear change you're okay. Of course it is best to be in the right gear before entering the roundabout/corner. As steve heath points out in his Griff bible, a gear change causing engine braking is a common cause of accidents even when travelling in a straight line in a TVR.
It is strange that when people are taught to drive that you're told to change gear on the roundabout - but in a 1.X litre FWD car you're not likely to come unstuck.
It is strange that when people are taught to drive that you're told to change gear on the roundabout - but in a 1.X litre FWD car you're not likely to come unstuck.
I think that was the problem. I booted it from a roundabout junction to avoid oncoming traffic then slowed down and changed gear. There must of been too much inertia still in the engine for the gear change. It sent me into towards the centre of the roundabout. I then backed off speed and it was ok.
Would this happen on a modern rwd car as well?
Yes - unless it has some fancy traction control/ESP.
If you are cornering and think you are going too fast then I think its best to just try and keep the car the same speed and not brake or lift off - there's much more chance of making it around the corner without losing traction. As long as you aren't applying any unnecessary force (brake, lift-off, accelerate, harsh direction change) its amazing how much more grip the car has.
People are being taught to change gear MID ROUNDABOUT? - madness. Almost as bad is the police's idea of braking through corners.
Wedges roadholding is excellent. Handling is a little different as they are jittery. Well, I am speaking from experience with my own car which I have been told has a race set-up. I have now softened it a little to settle the liveliness exiting bumby corners - of which there are many round here.
Sudden backing off in any car is likely to encourage lift-off-oversteer in any car. It will actually make it happen in a good few high performance cars if you are pressing on, and you don't catch it - especially with mid and rear engined cars (Porkers).
I always thought that Wedgers were high quality drivers and practised the art of - approach corner, change down to appropriate gear, brake, turn in apply throttle through corner, balance car as necessary, accelerate through corner when at/on apex depending upon radius of bend, approaching exit point accelerate out of bend hard. A truly satisfying experience. The old "slow in fast out" principle. I thought all quickish drivers, and especially Wedgers did this.
Can't wait to get my Wedge back on the road! Wonderful experience every time.
Wedges roadholding is excellent. Handling is a little different as they are jittery. Well, I am speaking from experience with my own car which I have been told has a race set-up. I have now softened it a little to settle the liveliness exiting bumby corners - of which there are many round here.
Sudden backing off in any car is likely to encourage lift-off-oversteer in any car. It will actually make it happen in a good few high performance cars if you are pressing on, and you don't catch it - especially with mid and rear engined cars (Porkers).
I always thought that Wedgers were high quality drivers and practised the art of - approach corner, change down to appropriate gear, brake, turn in apply throttle through corner, balance car as necessary, accelerate through corner when at/on apex depending upon radius of bend, approaching exit point accelerate out of bend hard. A truly satisfying experience. The old "slow in fast out" principle. I thought all quickish drivers, and especially Wedgers did this.
Can't wait to get my Wedge back on the road! Wonderful experience every time.
Edited by firefox1712 on Wednesday 21st June 18:14
I read an article a few years ago from a guy who drove in the Tuscan Challenge. I have applied his wisdom to my road going TVRs especially the 450.
The rules about driving the Tuscan through a corner went like this:-
1- Do not accelerate through a corner or you will spin it.
2- Do not brake through a corner or you will spin it.
3- Do not change gear through a corner or you will spin it.
Here endeth the lesson.
Also if you practice heel and toeing, this helps with down changing and reduces the chance of the back end locking up due to miss matched road and engine speed. It does take practice as some of the racers will tell you but it is worth the effort and will be another string to your bow.
Nige'
The rules about driving the Tuscan through a corner went like this:-
1- Do not accelerate through a corner or you will spin it.
2- Do not brake through a corner or you will spin it.
3- Do not change gear through a corner or you will spin it.
Here endeth the lesson.
Also if you practice heel and toeing, this helps with down changing and reduces the chance of the back end locking up due to miss matched road and engine speed. It does take practice as some of the racers will tell you but it is worth the effort and will be another string to your bow.
Nige'
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