997TT Test drive...
Discussion
So I was fortunate enough to get a very early spin in one of these this morning,and I have to say it was pretty much exactly as I expected...both good and bad.First off,it's amazingly quick.Driving at 70 or 80mph in this feels like 30 or 40mph in anything else.Some cars make you feel like you're doing 100mph even at half those speeds,this thing does the exact opposite.I didn't take it over 100mph but at no time did it feel remotely stressed...any revs,any gear it just pulled immediately,lag is literally non existent.The other thing that struck me was ease of use.Absolutely anybody could not only drive this car,but drive it fast.The set up is very soft and forgiving (I regret to say I didn't try the sports chrono ride thing),the steering is super light,and the clutch is the easiest,most feather light clutch I think I've ever experienced on any road car ever,let alone supercar.The clutch in a Cayman is a good deal stiffer,and that's not remotely heavy,just to put it into perspective.It would take a bit of getting used to,I found it slightly disconcerting.
It looks pretty enough (car was cobalt blue/back),not that different to a 996TT as you will have seen,and the interior is standard 997 fare,definitely pleasant enough with that mass of buttons though.The two real disappointments were these.First the noise...there just isn't really any to speak of,and secondly the car I drove had 41 miles on it and yet the panel behind the driver's door was rattling around dreadfully which can't be a sign of high build quality but of course that may just have been unique to this car.
I know I sound underwhelmed and I guess I was a bit.It's hard to explain.If you want what is probably the fastest point to point car on the planet,that's gonna get you from a to b with the absolute minimum of fuss and genuinely astonish with its acceleration and ability to go fast then it's the absolute business.I guess it's that phrase 'minimum of fuss'.It's so accomplished and technologically advanced that in my opinion if you want to really interact with it you might struggle.I'm not into the old is best or air cooled vs water cooled thing at all so that's not where I'm coming from but the car just felt aloof.There's a total lack of drama about everything apart from the numbers on the speedo and so,as the driver (albeit not a very good one),I didn't really feel terribly involved.I guess you can't exactly blame the car for that but I'd let my Mum or my wife drive the 997TT in a heartbeat whereas I'd never let them anywhere near the 993TT.
I hopped back in the 993TT immediately afterwards and the 997TT is faster,has no lag at all,is easier to drive,more practical,much softer around town no doubt...but I genuinely preferred the 993,if only because good or bad it does what it does because my input.Sorry to sound cliched but I hope these impressions or at least somewhat interesting or useful.Cheers.
It looks pretty enough (car was cobalt blue/back),not that different to a 996TT as you will have seen,and the interior is standard 997 fare,definitely pleasant enough with that mass of buttons though.The two real disappointments were these.First the noise...there just isn't really any to speak of,and secondly the car I drove had 41 miles on it and yet the panel behind the driver's door was rattling around dreadfully which can't be a sign of high build quality but of course that may just have been unique to this car.
I know I sound underwhelmed and I guess I was a bit.It's hard to explain.If you want what is probably the fastest point to point car on the planet,that's gonna get you from a to b with the absolute minimum of fuss and genuinely astonish with its acceleration and ability to go fast then it's the absolute business.I guess it's that phrase 'minimum of fuss'.It's so accomplished and technologically advanced that in my opinion if you want to really interact with it you might struggle.I'm not into the old is best or air cooled vs water cooled thing at all so that's not where I'm coming from but the car just felt aloof.There's a total lack of drama about everything apart from the numbers on the speedo and so,as the driver (albeit not a very good one),I didn't really feel terribly involved.I guess you can't exactly blame the car for that but I'd let my Mum or my wife drive the 997TT in a heartbeat whereas I'd never let them anywhere near the 993TT.
I hopped back in the 993TT immediately afterwards and the 997TT is faster,has no lag at all,is easier to drive,more practical,much softer around town no doubt...but I genuinely preferred the 993,if only because good or bad it does what it does because my input.Sorry to sound cliched but I hope these impressions or at least somewhat interesting or useful.Cheers.
Interesting, I must confess this is the reason why I have gone for the 997GT3, the 997 will no doubt be like the 996TT, you will have to push it to get really interactive with it. You can still really enjoy the 996TT as a drivers car on road, but it will be travelling mighty fast, no doubt the new Turbo will be so good that you will be doing simply ridiculous speeds before you are "keyed in" to the drive. This worries me, the 996 is fast enough, too fast even! I am in no doubt that the 997 will be more comfortable as a daily driver, more thrilling for second gear grunt, safer in all conditions, but requiring insane speeds to really interact with the car & that is where yout license is in danger!
Perhaps with sports PASM engaged, the new car will be a real track day beast, I hope so because from what you have said, this is where you will need to take it to really drive it to its full potential!
Perhaps with sports PASM engaged, the new car will be a real track day beast, I hope so because from what you have said, this is where you will need to take it to really drive it to its full potential!
Edited by porkernut on Friday 23 June 22:22
aceparts_com said:
Gunner, maybe you should spend some money tweeking your 993TT? I have and it's money well spent IMO 
What have you done....and why? (interested party!) I've just been driving a Cayman S as a loan car, and I feel the same as the author of the post. It's very good....really! very good indeed, I can see why anyone would be seduced by it....looks good, goes quite well...BUT..
Interesting ... smimilar criticism was levelled at the Lotus Elan SE when it was released in the 90's - excellent, very fast, but you didn't feel like a part of the 'process' when driving it.
The MX5 (which is anything but detatched) was the car that succeeded - and succeeded fantastically well. The Elan is practically unheard of now.
Oli.
The MX5 (which is anything but detatched) was the car that succeeded - and succeeded fantastically well. The Elan is practically unheard of now.
Oli.
aceparts,you're right I probably should but mine's totally original and I sort of want to keep it that way.Paul,we agree on the Cayman.I also borrowed the car,did 1500 miles or so in it,and it's a terrific little car.It absolutely seduces initially but if I'm completely honest I started to get a little bored in it after a few days...great car though,I would think the non 's' version is great value at £35k odd.
One final thought,a good 996TT is now about 60k,right?There's no way in my mind the 997TT is 40k better.And when you consider the Cayman s is just under 50k for the most part,the 996TT really starts to look like value all the way along.
One final thought,a good 996TT is now about 60k,right?There's no way in my mind the 997TT is 40k better.And when you consider the Cayman s is just under 50k for the most part,the 996TT really starts to look like value all the way along.
zcacogp said:
Interesting ... smimilar criticism was levelled at the Lotus Elan SE when it was released in the 90's - excellent, very fast, but you didn't feel like a part of the 'process' when driving it.
The MX5 (which is anything but detatched) was the car that succeeded - and succeeded fantastically well. The Elan is practically unheard of now.
Oli.
The MX5 (which is anything but detatched) was the car that succeeded - and succeeded fantastically well. The Elan is practically unheard of now.
Oli.
Yes, but that was more about the Elan being FWD and so very, very compentent, safe, quick, but not much fun. Whilst I love MX5s, I don't really think most buyers are car enthusiasts at all or care that much about ultimate feedback. Some do, but it's really about being the the most accesible mass produced sports car out there, even more today with the demise of the MR2 and MGF.
Without trying to stir yet further 964/993 vs 996 discusion, the cooking 996s I have drove whilst better in just about every area, do lose some imtimacy and feedback compared to the air cooled versions. Same with the 997S I have drive, and so if and when I do upgrade, it'll probably be a GT3 of some description.
Having said this, never driven any turbo 911 variant as yet..
abarber said:
zcacogp said:
Interesting ... smimilar criticism was levelled at the Lotus Elan SE when it was released in the 90's - excellent, very fast, but you didn't feel like a part of the 'process' when driving it.
The MX5 (which is anything but detatched) was the car that succeeded - and succeeded fantastically well. The Elan is practically unheard of now.
Oli.
The MX5 (which is anything but detatched) was the car that succeeded - and succeeded fantastically well. The Elan is practically unheard of now.
Oli.
Yes, but that was more about the Elan being FWD and so very, very compentent, safe, quick, but not much fun. Whilst I love MX5s, I don't really think most buyers are car enthusiasts at all or care that much about ultimate feedback. Some do, but it's really about being the the most accesible mass produced sports car out there, even more today with the demise of the MR2 and MGF.
Without trying to stir yet further 964/993 vs 996 discusion, the cooking 996s I have drove whilst better in just about every area, do lose some imtimacy and feedback compared to the air cooled versions. Same with the 997S I have drive, and so if and when I do upgrade, it'll probably be a GT3 of some description.
Having said this, never driven any turbo 911 variant as yet..
The first time I drove a 911, it was a 996TT on a test drive & I remember feelin a little underwhelmed by it. I expected something that felt really special, but somehow it didn't. Quick no doubt, but didn't feel special in the vein of driving it being an event. I got my Elan back on the road this week for the 1st time in a couple of years. I've driven it for the 1st time since I got the GT3 last year. Now I understand what the complaints about the Elan were about. The engine is so quiet you don't even know it's going at tickover. You don't have any worries about upsetting it on the road, there is no drama whatsoever. The same could never be said of a GT3. Sounds from the roadtest above the Turbo is heading in the same direction.
Interesting discussion, and I guess most of the criticism of being too 'easy' can be levelled at any AWD car, I know mine (admittedly not a by any means a sportscar) can get boring on grippy stuff, and only really comes into its own on gravel (hence the PH name) or other slippy surfaces.
I read an article recently though on the 997TT, which included an interview with Walter Rohrl, who referred to it as the best Porsche he's ever driven, and that it would comprehensivly beat any of the group B rally cars (like the Audi S1 he used to drive) on any road. I know he works for Porsche and so is bound to be pretty complimentary, but for someone like him to talk about the car like that shouldn't be taken lightly.
ps apparently he had much fun scaring journalists by taking them for a ride in it, including taking a corner over a blind crest at 215kph
Perhaps it does have a point where it really 'comes alive' so to speak, but it seems this may be well out of the reach of mere mortals.
I read an article recently though on the 997TT, which included an interview with Walter Rohrl, who referred to it as the best Porsche he's ever driven, and that it would comprehensivly beat any of the group B rally cars (like the Audi S1 he used to drive) on any road. I know he works for Porsche and so is bound to be pretty complimentary, but for someone like him to talk about the car like that shouldn't be taken lightly.
ps apparently he had much fun scaring journalists by taking them for a ride in it, including taking a corner over a blind crest at 215kph
Perhaps it does have a point where it really 'comes alive' so to speak, but it seems this may be well out of the reach of mere mortals.
This thread amuses me. Porsche cant win. They get told for yrs the Turbo is too lairy, too dangerous, uncontrollable. They then get told it doesnt have enough power. Each new model only has a few BHP over the last one. So they give the new one a great big huge dollop of power. Now all Porsche get are complaints that the damn thing is too fast and too well controlled!
I never found the 996tt to be too restrained or boring and I drive a Sagaris. I revelled in the assuredness, the grip, the ability, if the new tt delivers *more* of that, then all I can say is woo and indeed hoo! Ive got an "interesting drive" motor and if I still find the 911t provides enough thrills then I think the GT3 boys are indulging in a little wishfull thinking.
Ive never yet come across a way to enter a tightening 2nd gear off camber corner at probably 10mph too fast, have a car glue itself to the road...gain speed through the corner...and rocket out the other side, and do it boringly! Absolute respect to any of you who do, you must have Indurain and Armstrong spec heartrates! For us mere mortals though ... its a blast!
I never found the 996tt to be too restrained or boring and I drive a Sagaris. I revelled in the assuredness, the grip, the ability, if the new tt delivers *more* of that, then all I can say is woo and indeed hoo! Ive got an "interesting drive" motor and if I still find the 911t provides enough thrills then I think the GT3 boys are indulging in a little wishfull thinking.
Ive never yet come across a way to enter a tightening 2nd gear off camber corner at probably 10mph too fast, have a car glue itself to the road...gain speed through the corner...and rocket out the other side, and do it boringly! Absolute respect to any of you who do, you must have Indurain and Armstrong spec heartrates! For us mere mortals though ... its a blast!
DJC,I agree with what you say.Porsche can't win because no product ever appeals absolutely universally and when you're dealing with the sort of heritage they are then you're always going to upset people regardless of how good and how much 'improved' your cars are.I guess the point I was trying to convey was just that Porsche seem to have erred more on the side of producing a comparatively quiet comfort GT than a sportscar with this model.I am no sort of driver and there's no doubt that almost immediately I was able to drive it very quickly very easily which was amazing and flattering but didn't fire my imagination in the way many cars have.As a very modest driver I enjoy having to work and concentrate hard at driving a car quickly (or at least feeling my adrenalin levels increase) and it was staggering that frankly I didn't have to in this.Don't get me wrong,I wasn't tearing around on public roads but you know what I mean.
Commercially Porsche have,I'm sure,got the 997TT spot on and as an all round package it's staggeringly accomplished.But £100k is a lot for a car,any car,and I personally would have liked a little more drama.In hindsight,the lack of noise was a real disappointment.I drove an NSX on Saturday and the noise in that was tremendous,makes a huge difference.
Commercially Porsche have,I'm sure,got the 997TT spot on and as an all round package it's staggeringly accomplished.But £100k is a lot for a car,any car,and I personally would have liked a little more drama.In hindsight,the lack of noise was a real disappointment.I drove an NSX on Saturday and the noise in that was tremendous,makes a huge difference.
DJC said:
This thread amuses me. Porsche cant win. They get told for yrs the Turbo is too lairy, too dangerous, uncontrollable. They then get told it doesnt have enough power. Each new model only has a few BHP over the last one. So they give the new one a great big huge dollop of power. Now all Porsche get are complaints that the damn thing is too fast and too well controlled!
I never found the 996tt to be too restrained or boring and I drive a Sagaris. I revelled in the assuredness, the grip, the ability, if the new tt delivers *more* of that, then all I can say is woo and indeed hoo! Ive got an "interesting drive" motor and if I still find the 911t provides enough thrills then I think the GT3 boys are indulging in a little wishfull thinking.
Ive never yet come across a way to enter a tightening 2nd gear off camber corner at probably 10mph too fast, have a car glue itself to the road...gain speed through the corner...and rocket out the other side, and do it boringly! Absolute respect to any of you who do, you must have Indurain and Armstrong spec heartrates! For us mere mortals though ... its a blast!
I totally agree,too many people on this forum talking bollox...the 996tt offers as much fun as the GT3,c4s ,m3csl and all that stuff...The only difference is you are going FAST before the tt scares you not just THINKING you are going fastI never found the 996tt to be too restrained or boring and I drive a Sagaris. I revelled in the assuredness, the grip, the ability, if the new tt delivers *more* of that, then all I can say is woo and indeed hoo! Ive got an "interesting drive" motor and if I still find the 911t provides enough thrills then I think the GT3 boys are indulging in a little wishfull thinking.
Ive never yet come across a way to enter a tightening 2nd gear off camber corner at probably 10mph too fast, have a car glue itself to the road...gain speed through the corner...and rocket out the other side, and do it boringly! Absolute respect to any of you who do, you must have Indurain and Armstrong spec heartrates! For us mere mortals though ... its a blast!
gunner said:
as an all round package it's staggeringly accomplished.But £100k is a lot for a car,any car,and I personally would have liked a little more drama.
most on here would but we are in the minority, I bet most TT drivers are wealthy businessman who want the "best" Porsche to be seen in but actually want to cruise around with their tiptronic in auto mode.
Lots here would rather a GT car, I want my 996TT in manual and will fit a louder exhaust
kayc said:
DJC said:
This thread amuses me. Porsche cant win. They get told for yrs the Turbo is too lairy, too dangerous, uncontrollable. They then get told it doesnt have enough power. Each new model only has a few BHP over the last one. So they give the new one a great big huge dollop of power. Now all Porsche get are complaints that the damn thing is too fast and too well controlled!
I never found the 996tt to be too restrained or boring and I drive a Sagaris. I revelled in the assuredness, the grip, the ability, if the new tt delivers *more* of that, then all I can say is woo and indeed hoo! Ive got an "interesting drive" motor and if I still find the 911t provides enough thrills then I think the GT3 boys are indulging in a little wishfull thinking.
Ive never yet come across a way to enter a tightening 2nd gear off camber corner at probably 10mph too fast, have a car glue itself to the road...gain speed through the corner...and rocket out the other side, and do it boringly! Absolute respect to any of you who do, you must have Indurain and Armstrong spec heartrates! For us mere mortals though ... its a blast!
I totally agree,too many people on this forum talking bollox...the 996tt offers as much fun as the GT3,c4s ,m3csl and all that stuff...The only difference is you are going FAST before the tt scares you not just THINKING you are going fastI never found the 996tt to be too restrained or boring and I drive a Sagaris. I revelled in the assuredness, the grip, the ability, if the new tt delivers *more* of that, then all I can say is woo and indeed hoo! Ive got an "interesting drive" motor and if I still find the 911t provides enough thrills then I think the GT3 boys are indulging in a little wishfull thinking.
Ive never yet come across a way to enter a tightening 2nd gear off camber corner at probably 10mph too fast, have a car glue itself to the road...gain speed through the corner...and rocket out the other side, and do it boringly! Absolute respect to any of you who do, you must have Indurain and Armstrong spec heartrates! For us mere mortals though ... its a blast!
You keep falling into the trap of thinking everyone should regard driving in the same way you do. They don't, which is why there are different models.
Is it really that wonderful that people who aren't that skilled feel they can go at mach 10 in a 997 TT. What happens when the computer can't change physics and they are at 12/10ths. Surely it's better if you get some real feedback about the forces involved before you learn the hard way.
DanH said:
kayc said:
DJC said:
This thread amuses me. Porsche cant win. They get told for yrs the Turbo is too lairy, too dangerous, uncontrollable. They then get told it doesnt have enough power. Each new model only has a few BHP over the last one. So they give the new one a great big huge dollop of power. Now all Porsche get are complaints that the damn thing is too fast and too well controlled!
I never found the 996tt to be too restrained or boring and I drive a Sagaris. I revelled in the assuredness, the grip, the ability, if the new tt delivers *more* of that, then all I can say is woo and indeed hoo! Ive got an "interesting drive" motor and if I still find the 911t provides enough thrills then I think the GT3 boys are indulging in a little wishfull thinking.
Ive never yet come across a way to enter a tightening 2nd gear off camber corner at probably 10mph too fast, have a car glue itself to the road...gain speed through the corner...and rocket out the other side, and do it boringly! Absolute respect to any of you who do, you must have Indurain and Armstrong spec heartrates! For us mere mortals though ... its a blast!
I totally agree,too many people on this forum talking bollox...the 996tt offers as much fun as the GT3,c4s ,m3csl and all that stuff...The only difference is you are going FAST before the tt scares you not just THINKING you are going fastI never found the 996tt to be too restrained or boring and I drive a Sagaris. I revelled in the assuredness, the grip, the ability, if the new tt delivers *more* of that, then all I can say is woo and indeed hoo! Ive got an "interesting drive" motor and if I still find the 911t provides enough thrills then I think the GT3 boys are indulging in a little wishfull thinking.
Ive never yet come across a way to enter a tightening 2nd gear off camber corner at probably 10mph too fast, have a car glue itself to the road...gain speed through the corner...and rocket out the other side, and do it boringly! Absolute respect to any of you who do, you must have Indurain and Armstrong spec heartrates! For us mere mortals though ... its a blast!
You keep falling into the trap of thinking everyone should regard driving in the same way you do. They don't, which is why there are different models.
Is it really that wonderful that people who aren't that skilled feel they can go at mach 10 in a 997 TT. What happens when the computer can't change physics and they are at 12/10ths. Surely it's better if you get some real feedback about the forces involved before you learn the hard way.
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