Tenancy Woes, where do I stand?
Discussion
I have just sent this letter to the head of property management at a certain estate agents, who are the property managers for the flat I am renting,
Dear Mr ????????,
I am a tenant in a property managed by BigGreenEstateAgents, at ZZZZZZ, my manager is XXXXXXX. He has directed me to write to you concerning problems that we have had with BigGreenEstateAgents management in the 7 months that we have been living in this property. I have tried repeatedly to sort things out directly with him, but to no avail. Currently I am waiting for him to speak to his manager about an issue that he said in an email that he would do on the 5th of June (3 weeks ago today). I have not yet heard anything back from him, and he will not reply to emails on the subject. I will list the problems that we have had below.
1. Shower fitting - It was part of out tenancy agreement that in the two weeks between the old tenants moving out (the middle of October 2005) and us moving in (November 1 2005) that there would be a new shower fitted in the downstairs bathroom. When we arrived at the property, this had not been done, but we were assured that it would be done in the next two weeks. It took us four months to get someone to come and look at the bathroom, and it was not fitted until the first week of May - i.e. over 6 months/half way through our contract.
2. Oven door - In the same two week period that the shower was to be fitted, there was also meant to be a new oven door fitted. This was also not done, leaving us unable to use the oven for over a month after moving in.
3. Hot water - In the middle of January our boiler broke, and it took over a week to get someone out to see it, and two weeks to get it working again, leaving us with no hot water or central heating.
4. Doorbell - On the 15th of May I left a message on XXXXXX's voicemail informing him that the intercom system had broken. He ignored this, and only arranged someone to come and see it almost 2 weeks later, after I had told the landlord, and she "reminded" him. However, it is still not fixed today, almost 6 weeks after I initially told him it was broken.
It is not just the inconvenience and incompetence that is irritating about the problems which I have just described, I am also very unhappy at how we have been handled by XXXXXX and also YYYYYYY, his old manager. I have never been able to get hold of anyone at BigGreenEstateAgents without leaving at least three voicemails, and waiting for at least a day for them to call back. Email is no better, as I mentioned at the beginning of the letter, I am still waiting for a reply from XXXXXX about compensation that he said he was finding out about three weeks ago.
At around the start of May, I managed to speak to YYYYYY, and also XXXXXX, who both agreed that BigGreenEstateAgents would pay us compensation due to the very substandard levels of service that we have experienced. YYYYYY informed me that she would call the landlord that day, and get back to me with an answer. Two days later I called her to find out what progress had been made, but she told me that she could not get through. Ten days later I called again, and again I was told that she and XXXXXX had been calling "every day, and leaving messages, but they are not returning our calls. They must be on holiday...". I knew this was not correct, so I phoned the landlord myself, who confirmed that they had not been away at all, and in fact she was at home almost all day, every day, and she had not received a single call or message. I am sure it is not BigGreenEstateAgents policy to openly lie to your clients like this, but it happened nevertheless, and had I not been in direct contact with the landlord I am sure that I would still be waiting for an answer now.
After a few weeks deliberation, we were offered a sum of £150 as compensation, which we feel is a pathetic sum considering how much time and effort we have had to put in to trying to get things right, as well as what we have had to do without due to very poor service from BigGreenEstateAgents. I would appreciate it if you could confirm receipt off this letter to me, as the last one I wrote to YYYYYY ended up with XXXXXX and she never saw it. You can email me at AAAA@BBBBBBBBBB.DDD if it is easier.
I look forward to hearing back from you soon,
Where do I stand in the law? If I withheld rent would I be in the wrong? It is just so hard to get these guys to do ANYTHING, and I know how much money they are making from this property sitting on their bums all day doing nothing!!!
dcw@pr said:
Dear Mr ????????,
I am a tenant in a property managed by BigGreenEstateAgents, at ZZZZZZ, my manager is XXXXXXX. He has directed me to write to you concerning problems that we have had with BigGreenEstateAgents management in the 7 months that we have been living in this property. I have tried repeatedly to sort things out directly with him, but to no avail. Currently I am waiting for him to speak to his manager about an issue that he said in an email that he would do on the 5th of June (3 weeks ago today). I have not yet heard anything back from him, and he will not reply to emails on the subject. I will list the problems that we have had below.
1. Shower fitting - It was part of out tenancy agreement that in the two weeks between the old tenants moving out (the middle of October 2005) and us moving in (November 1 2005) that there would be a new shower fitted in the downstairs bathroom. When we arrived at the property, this had not been done, but we were assured that it would be done in the next two weeks. It took us four months to get someone to come and look at the bathroom, and it was not fitted until the first week of May - i.e. over 6 months/half way through our contract.
2. Oven door - In the same two week period that the shower was to be fitted, there was also meant to be a new oven door fitted. This was also not done, leaving us unable to use the oven for over a month after moving in.
3. Hot water - In the middle of January our boiler broke, and it took over a week to get someone out to see it, and two weeks to get it working again, leaving us with no hot water or central heating.
4. Doorbell - On the 15th of May I left a message on XXXXXX's voicemail informing him that the intercom system had broken. He ignored this, and only arranged someone to come and see it almost 2 weeks later, after I had told the landlord, and she "reminded" him. However, it is still not fixed today, almost 6 weeks after I initially told him it was broken.
It is not just the inconvenience and incompetence that is irritating about the problems which I have just described, I am also very unhappy at how we have been handled by XXXXXX and also YYYYYYY, his old manager. I have never been able to get hold of anyone at BigGreenEstateAgents without leaving at least three voicemails, and waiting for at least a day for them to call back. Email is no better, as I mentioned at the beginning of the letter, I am still waiting for a reply from XXXXXX about compensation that he said he was finding out about three weeks ago.
At around the start of May, I managed to speak to YYYYYY, and also XXXXXX, who both agreed that BigGreenEstateAgents would pay us compensation due to the very substandard levels of service that we have experienced. YYYYYY informed me that she would call the landlord that day, and get back to me with an answer. Two days later I called her to find out what progress had been made, but she told me that she could not get through. Ten days later I called again, and again I was told that she and XXXXXX had been calling "every day, and leaving messages, but they are not returning our calls. They must be on holiday...". I knew this was not correct, so I phoned the landlord myself, who confirmed that they had not been away at all, and in fact she was at home almost all day, every day, and she had not received a single call or message. I am sure it is not BigGreenEstateAgents policy to openly lie to your clients like this, but it happened nevertheless, and had I not been in direct contact with the landlord I am sure that I would still be waiting for an answer now.
After a few weeks deliberation, we were offered a sum of £150 as compensation, which we feel is a pathetic sum considering how much time and effort we have had to put in to trying to get things right, as well as what we have had to do without due to very poor service from BigGreenEstateAgents. I would appreciate it if you could confirm receipt off this letter to me, as the last one I wrote to YYYYYY ended up with XXXXXX and she never saw it. You can email me at AAAA@BBBBBBBBBB.DDD if it is easier.
I look forward to hearing back from you soon,
Where do I stand in the law? If I withheld rent would I be in the wrong? It is just so hard to get these guys to do ANYTHING, and I know how much money they are making from this property sitting on their bums all day doing nothing!!!
Technically they are in breach of contract. However I would accept the compensation and just forget about it. Maybe find somewhere else to live. You wont get anywhere in court, or at least it wont be cost effective.
You are entitled to withold a percentage of the rent for direct expenses, ie if you paid for the cooker door to be fixed etc. I would not however withold rent because you feel a bit peed off, you may find yourself on the sharp end of a possession order.
You are entitled to withold a percentage of the rent for direct expenses, ie if you paid for the cooker door to be fixed etc. I would not however withold rent because you feel a bit peed off, you may find yourself on the sharp end of a possession order.
jamesuk28 said:
Technically they are in breach of contract. However I would accept the compensation and just forget about it. Maybe find somewhere else to live. You wont get anywhere in court, or at least it wont be cost effective.
You are entitled to withold a percentage of the rent for direct expenses, ie if you paid for the cooker door to be fixed etc. I would not however withold rent because you feel a bit peed off, you may find yourself on the sharp end of a possession order.
You are entitled to withold a percentage of the rent for direct expenses, ie if you paid for the cooker door to be fixed etc. I would not however withold rent because you feel a bit peed off, you may find yourself on the sharp end of a possession order.
without seeing the tenancy contract;
technically THEY (estage agents) are NOT in breach of contract. The estate agents have not signed anything with you as a tenant. The owner of the property may not have complied with their obligations to repair and it is them who May be in breach of their contract with you.
Your best bet is put it all in writing, contact the owner direct if you can, deduct what you feel is reasonable and see what happens.
Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 28th June 11:52
dcw@pr said:
the problem is that I am in contact with the owner, and have been for a while. I know that it is not their fault, it is the estate agents who have not been doing the work
The estate agents are just that - agents. The owner is responsible, they ultimately let the property to you and pay a percentage of the rental income to the agents to manage the property. Agreed, the agents are not really managing the property, but that is an issue between the owner and them.
If you are in contact with the owner, tell them that you will either withold rent until the faults are rectified or get the faults rectified and deduct the cost from your rent. See how quickly they get on the case then! From what I can tell, you are giving the agents grief, who are not passing the grief onto the owner, who in tunr is offering tea and sympathy and sweet f-all else!
I would like to see the outcome of this as i am in a similar position.
Landlords Agents promised the earth and have not delivered and i see them and i expect the Law to side with me as it is clearly a breach of contract in relation to the state of the repair of the property.
I proposed to the agents a reduce rent (£100 Permonth Reduction on a property costing £1000 in rent) I thought that this was a reasonable deduction looking at the costs of similar properties in the area and looking at there condition. The second option was if nothing was carried out by a certain date we would hand in our notice and move plus seek compensation through the court.
We are now going down option 2 - I thought that this would come under the small claims court and only balance of probability is needed for a judgement not evidence/proof of fault.
Steve
Landlords Agents promised the earth and have not delivered and i see them and i expect the Law to side with me as it is clearly a breach of contract in relation to the state of the repair of the property.
I proposed to the agents a reduce rent (£100 Permonth Reduction on a property costing £1000 in rent) I thought that this was a reasonable deduction looking at the costs of similar properties in the area and looking at there condition. The second option was if nothing was carried out by a certain date we would hand in our notice and move plus seek compensation through the court.
We are now going down option 2 - I thought that this would come under the small claims court and only balance of probability is needed for a judgement not evidence/proof of fault.
Steve
superlightr said:
jamesuk28 said:
Technically they are in breach of contract. However I would accept the compensation and just forget about it. Maybe find somewhere else to live. You wont get anywhere in court, or at least it wont be cost effective.
You are entitled to withold a percentage of the rent for direct expenses, ie if you paid for the cooker door to be fixed etc. I would not however withold rent because you feel a bit peed off, you may find yourself on the sharp end of a possession order.
You are entitled to withold a percentage of the rent for direct expenses, ie if you paid for the cooker door to be fixed etc. I would not however withold rent because you feel a bit peed off, you may find yourself on the sharp end of a possession order.
without seeing the tenancy contract;
technically THEY (estage agents) are NOT in breach of contract. The estate agents have not signed anything with you as a tenant. The owner of the property may not have complied with their obligations to repair and it is them who May be in breach of their contract with you.
Your best bet is put it all in writing, contact the owner direct if you can, deduct what you feel is reasonable and see what happens.
Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 28th June 11:52
Dont remember saying the letting agents had soley breached contract, by they I mean the landlord and his or her agents. And I quote "technically" like I said a complete waste of time and money pusuing it, accept the compensation and move on.
grrrrrrrr!
I accept your point that I may not get anything meaningful, but I intend to try and make it uncomfortable for the agents by going to the local press/watchdog etc. I know they probably won't be interested, but this is a large company who have already had quite a lot of negative press in the last few months.
I also understand that it may ultimately be the landlord's fault, but I have personally seen how the agents have not been bothered to get off their bums and lift up a phone to try and arrange stuff. If that is not their responisibility then what is the point of them being paid £9000 a year to "manage" the property? Not to mention their blatant lies and deceit (I know it has happened more times than I said in the letter, but I couldn't proove it - the other people were contractors I have spoken to directly) Another factor is I don't want to piss off the landlord because we get on well and I intend to stay here for longer, and ditch the agents.
I accept your point that I may not get anything meaningful, but I intend to try and make it uncomfortable for the agents by going to the local press/watchdog etc. I know they probably won't be interested, but this is a large company who have already had quite a lot of negative press in the last few months.
I also understand that it may ultimately be the landlord's fault, but I have personally seen how the agents have not been bothered to get off their bums and lift up a phone to try and arrange stuff. If that is not their responisibility then what is the point of them being paid £9000 a year to "manage" the property? Not to mention their blatant lies and deceit (I know it has happened more times than I said in the letter, but I couldn't proove it - the other people were contractors I have spoken to directly) Another factor is I don't want to piss off the landlord because we get on well and I intend to stay here for longer, and ditch the agents.
jamesuk28 said:
See if the agents are members of a proffesional body, and complain directly to them. And no need for Grrrrrrrrr i was not having a pop at you but the post relating to mine. Just trying to save you some grief thats all.
sorry I know, it was general frustration, not directed at you in any way!
LOL. Foxtons as in the stars of the BBC's secret agent series see
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4
I have checked their site and cant find any affiliation. I would ask your landlord to change letting agents asap.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4
I have checked their site and cant find any affiliation. I would ask your landlord to change letting agents asap.
jamesuk28 said:
LOL. Foxtons as in the stars of the BBC's secret agent series see
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4
I have checked their site and cant find any affiliation. I would ask your landlord to change letting agents asap.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4
I have checked their site and cant find any affiliation. I would ask your landlord to change letting agents asap.
yes I did see that program.
of course, i was only using Foxtons as an example, your honour
All good estate agents who are invovled with letting should have a link to the ARLA (Association of residential Letting Agents).
they provide safegaurds of the large deposit you put down on the property, and also provide a mediation service if and when problems occur.
give them a call and see what they advise
they provide safegaurds of the large deposit you put down on the property, and also provide a mediation service if and when problems occur.
give them a call and see what they advise
dcw@pr said:
grrrrrrrr!
I accept your point that I may not get anything meaningful, but I intend to try and make it uncomfortable for the agents by going to the local press/watchdog etc. I know they probably won't be interested, but this is a large company who have already had quite a lot of negative press in the last few months.
I also understand that it may ultimately be the landlord's fault, but I have personally seen how the agents have not been bothered to get off their bums and lift up a phone to try and arrange stuff. If that is not their responisibility then what is the point of them being paid £9000 a year to "manage" the property? Not to mention their blatant lies and deceit (I know it has happened more times than I said in the letter, but I couldn't proove it - the other people were contractors I have spoken to directly) Another factor is I don't want to piss off the landlord because we get on well and I intend to stay here for longer, and ditch the agents.
I accept your point that I may not get anything meaningful, but I intend to try and make it uncomfortable for the agents by going to the local press/watchdog etc. I know they probably won't be interested, but this is a large company who have already had quite a lot of negative press in the last few months.
I also understand that it may ultimately be the landlord's fault, but I have personally seen how the agents have not been bothered to get off their bums and lift up a phone to try and arrange stuff. If that is not their responisibility then what is the point of them being paid £9000 a year to "manage" the property? Not to mention their blatant lies and deceit (I know it has happened more times than I said in the letter, but I couldn't proove it - the other people were contractors I have spoken to directly) Another factor is I don't want to piss off the landlord because we get on well and I intend to stay here for longer, and ditch the agents.
You seem a tad confused here if you don't mind my saying. You say you have a good relationship with the landlord? Well it's their house and they employ the agents, not you. You cannot force the agents to do anything, they are acting for the landlord not you. I strongly suggest you commit in writing to the landlord what you have posted on this thread and threaten to withold part of the rent to ensure the faults are rectified. If the landlord is such a nice person as you make out, then they'll cack themselves. you could always serve notice to leave, there must be other property to rent? but your reference might make interesting reading (or more accurately interesting glaring ommissions in the interests of libel)
Tyre Smoke said:
dcw@pr said:
grrrrrrrr!
I accept your point that I may not get anything meaningful, but I intend to try and make it uncomfortable for the agents by going to the local press/watchdog etc. I know they probably won't be interested, but this is a large company who have already had quite a lot of negative press in the last few months.
I also understand that it may ultimately be the landlord's fault, but I have personally seen how the agents have not been bothered to get off their bums and lift up a phone to try and arrange stuff. If that is not their responisibility then what is the point of them being paid £9000 a year to "manage" the property? Not to mention their blatant lies and deceit (I know it has happened more times than I said in the letter, but I couldn't proove it - the other people were contractors I have spoken to directly) Another factor is I don't want to piss off the landlord because we get on well and I intend to stay here for longer, and ditch the agents.
I accept your point that I may not get anything meaningful, but I intend to try and make it uncomfortable for the agents by going to the local press/watchdog etc. I know they probably won't be interested, but this is a large company who have already had quite a lot of negative press in the last few months.
I also understand that it may ultimately be the landlord's fault, but I have personally seen how the agents have not been bothered to get off their bums and lift up a phone to try and arrange stuff. If that is not their responisibility then what is the point of them being paid £9000 a year to "manage" the property? Not to mention their blatant lies and deceit (I know it has happened more times than I said in the letter, but I couldn't proove it - the other people were contractors I have spoken to directly) Another factor is I don't want to piss off the landlord because we get on well and I intend to stay here for longer, and ditch the agents.
You seem a tad confused here if you don't mind my saying. You say you have a good relationship with the landlord? Well it's their house and they employ the agents, not you. You cannot force the agents to do anything, they are acting for the landlord not you. I strongly suggest you commit in writing to the landlord what you have posted on this thread and threaten to withold part of the rent to ensure the faults are rectified. If the landlord is such a nice person as you make out, then they'll cack themselves. you could always serve notice to leave, there must be other property to rent? but your reference might make interesting reading (or more accurately interesting glaring ommissions in the interests of libel)
OK, I may be confused, and I still am. The landlord pays the agents to look after the property so that she doesn't have to. It is their job to arrange someone to fix our shower/oven/doorbell etc. It is not that the landlord is refusing to pay for it, it is that the agents are refusing to ring up the company that does it and organise for them to come and do the work. And if it was the landlords fault, why have the agents agreed that they owe us compensation due their lack of service?
Because they dont want the landlord to find out what a bunch of useless tw*ts they are. The agents are the landlords reps thats all. The ultimate responsibility lies with who you have the contract with IE The Landlord.
Go direct to the landlord and forget the agents all together. State that due to the appaling service you get from the agents you will now be contacting the landlord direct everytime something goes wrong at the property, that will I promise you have the desired effect.
Go direct to the landlord and forget the agents all together. State that due to the appaling service you get from the agents you will now be contacting the landlord direct everytime something goes wrong at the property, that will I promise you have the desired effect.
jamesuk28 said:
Because they dont want the landlord to find out what a bunch of useless tw*ts they are. The agents are the landlords reps thats all. The ultimate responsibility lies with who you have the contract with IE The Landlord.
Go direct to the landlord and forget the agents all together. State that due to the appaling service you get from the agents you will now be contacting the landlord direct everytime something goes wrong at the property, that will I promise you have the desired effect.
Go direct to the landlord and forget the agents all together. State that due to the appaling service you get from the agents you will now be contacting the landlord direct everytime something goes wrong at the property, that will I promise you have the desired effect.
i already have done that, the landlord know they are useless, and we will be ditching them next year. I am veyr keen to stay on here because I use it for business too.
anyway, I guess the answer to the original question is "can't really do anything about it"
Your contract is with the landlord. It is entirely your landlord's responsibility, and no one else's, that their obligations under the tenancy agreement are properly discharged. It isn't good enough for your landlord to say "but the agents are crap. What am I to do?". It is there repsonsibility to sort the situation out.
I see no reason for you to fall out with your landlord over this. I'd suggest you offer to pay rent to your landlord direct, discounted by some margin so that you are compensated for the lack of service you have received to date. That will stop the agent being able to remove their percentage of the rent and leave them entirely at the mercy of the landlord.
I see no reason for you to fall out with your landlord over this. I'd suggest you offer to pay rent to your landlord direct, discounted by some margin so that you are compensated for the lack of service you have received to date. That will stop the agent being able to remove their percentage of the rent and leave them entirely at the mercy of the landlord.
ATG said:
Your contract is with the landlord. It is entirely your landlord's responsibility, and no one else's, that their obligations under the tenancy agreement are properly discharged. It isn't good enough for your landlord to say "but the agents are crap. What am I to do?". It is there repsonsibility to sort the situation out.
I see no reason for you to fall out with your landlord over this. I'd suggest you offer to pay rent to your landlord direct, discounted by some margin so that you are compensated for the lack of service you have received to date. That will stop the agent being able to remove their percentage of the rent and leave them entirely at the mercy of the landlord.
I see no reason for you to fall out with your landlord over this. I'd suggest you offer to pay rent to your landlord direct, discounted by some margin so that you are compensated for the lack of service you have received to date. That will stop the agent being able to remove their percentage of the rent and leave them entirely at the mercy of the landlord.
hmmm, that is interesting. I have not (and will not) fall out with the landlord. If I were to pay my landlord directly then surely I would get in trouble with the agents since I am contracted to pay the rent to them. Is that not the case?
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