Caught by Red Light after lane change manoeuvre

[optim8]

Hi,

Looking for a bit of advice. My wife was approaching a set of lights on a dual carrage way when she decided to change lanes. She indicated then looked behind her to see if the road was clear. As she moved over she then looked back ahead to see that the lights had changed to amber. Because she was almost on top of the lights and was in a 40 limit she did not have time to stop without ending up half way across the junction. Her split second decision was to continue, which turned out to be a bad move as she had a red light letter arrive in the post!

The light had been red for 2.6 seconds.
The amber phase was 2.9 seconds.

If it takes 3 seconds to brake from 40mph plus 0.7 seconds to initally react, surely she would never of stopped anyway as the amber phase is too short. Also because she was doing her manoeuvre she missed most of the amber anyway.

Anyone had a similer situation to this?

Is there any grounds for a case here?

Is it fair that drivers should be penalised based on a split second decision?

Cheers for any feedback.

[supermono]

Well assuming she'd started to brake when amber first showed, which wasn't possible because she was looking the wrong way, she'd have stopped in 3.7 seconds, ie 0.8 seconds into the red. But she was 2.6 seconds into the red, and that's a long time actually.

I guess that's why the amber phase exists, to give you time to stop.

Luckily there wasn't anybody pulling hard away on green opposite her or she might have caused an accident. There's a roundabout with lights outside the office window and I'm amazed at the number of times people swan through a long red light causing others to brake.

Even though I wasn't there, and even though I don't usually like automated fines, it seems to me that this case is one where the penalty is appropriate. ie she was lucky not to have caused an accident and this will make her think twice about looking away from the lights in future.

It's probably best not to execute lane change manouvres approaching hazards that require full concentration.

Best chalk this one up I reckon.

SM

[MrKipling43]

Yeah I'd go with that. You'd never look away at a T-Junction that didn't have traffic lights, I'm of the opinion that you should pay as much attention when there's lights as not, and given the situation, if it went to court, she may end up getting done for driving without due care and attention too.

[Vesuvius 996]

optim8 said:

Hi,

Looking for a bit of advice. My wife was approaching a set of lights on a dual carrage way when she decided to change lanes. She indicated then looked behind her to see if the road was clear. As she moved over she then looked back ahead to see that the lights had changed to amber. Because she was almost on top of the lights and was in a 40 limit she did not have time to stop without ending up half way across the junction. Her split second decision was to continue, which turned out to be a bad move as she had a red light letter arrive in the post!

The light had been red for 2.6 seconds.
The amber phase was 2.9 seconds.

If it takes 3 seconds to brake from 40mph plus 0.7 seconds to initally react, surely she would never of stopped anyway as the amber phase is too short. Also because she was doing her manoeuvre she missed most of the amber anyway.

Anyone had a similer situation to this?

Is there any grounds for a case here?

Is it fair that drivers should be penalised based on a split second decision?

Cheers for any feedback.

We've all been there, but she'd better chalk this one down to experience and think herself fortunate she didn't get seen by the Police - likely to have been Due Care I reckon. She drove in such a way that she coudn't stop in the circumstances. Sorry.

Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Tuesday 27th June 16:40

[vonhosen]

If they are green on approach then you should be expecting them to change towards red, not stay on green indefinitely.

[jasandjules]

vonhosen said:

If they are green on approach then you should be expecting them to change towards red, not stay on green indefinitely.

Certainly true in London, where the Green phase appears to last for approx 0.2 secs whilst red is around 2-3 mins.

[justinp1]

vonhosen said:

If they are green on approach then you should be expecting them to change towards red, not stay on green indefinitely.

I have to go with Von on this one.

When approaching a hazard such a a junction like this the onus is on the driver to assess the hazard and judge their speed around it. It may very well be the case that it is indeed impossible at 40mph to stop in time if the light changes to amber just at the wrong second. Thus you would go through on a red... just. I would have thought that the camera is set to give an amount of leaway for this to happen.

If your wife was flashed say 0.2 seconds after the light turned red then you would perhaps have a case, however I think more than 2 seconds it will be impossible to justify. Your solicitor would end up arguing that your wife was overtaking, performing a manouvre, however the speeding law and red light laws are absolute - ie no leaway whatsover. The CPS would argue that (rightly or wrongly) that in a different situation going through the red lights 2.something seconds after they have turned red could cause an accident, and I wouldnt risk increasing the severity of the charge to argue a pretty much unwinnable case.

Hope this helps.

[bluepolarbear]

Depending on weather the car should stop in under 3 secs from 40mph most cars will stop from 60 in that time.

However, if I have read it right she crossed the line after 2.6 secs of red - that means the red light changed when she was about 150ft or 46m away - Which is a long way.