engine choices
Discussion
Apologies if this has been covered before but there seems to be a vast array of engines you can put in an Ultima, of course more power seems very tempting but if you want the car for road and trackday use is there an ideal combo ? Are there any problems associated with the bigger engines in terms of drivability ? Would like to use AS so any feedback regarding them would be helpful.
Car is still yet to be finished,should be on the road soon,SVA in July with a bit of luck.I had the motor built first by Peter Knight in Daventry.It has all the best bits and made 650bhp but as I am sure you can imagine,it was not cheap.You get what you pay for I guess.I am down near Brighton in a place called Lancing.
The 377ci is now a popular choice. Its shorter stroke produces less torque but plenty of HP because it revs higher. The end result is an engine that better suits the light weight of the Ultima and the standard gear ratios.
It only remains to work your way down the American Speed price list until your credit card bursts into flames.
Steve
It only remains to work your way down the American Speed price list until your credit card bursts into flames.
Steve
Mine's also got a Pete Knight engine, though 'only' 500 bhp, and I'm more than happy with it, and if you go for a UK builder, you have the benfit of a 'local' supplier to get help from if there's a problem.
Of course, you could just build your own engine...
As for drivability I find with the carb the idle is a bit rough down low, so at low revs in 1st/2nd gear the car gets lurched around a bit as it's so light, this will vary according to how wild (more and more overlap) your cam is - to get the power at the top end of the rev range.
Of course, you could just build your own engine...
As for drivability I find with the carb the idle is a bit rough down low, so at low revs in 1st/2nd gear the car gets lurched around a bit as it's so light, this will vary according to how wild (more and more overlap) your cam is - to get the power at the top end of the rev range.
Boosted LS1 said:
I'm curious as to how much you guys are paying for your engines? Anybody care to give me an idea. Thanks.
Most get them from American speed. This page of their site is specific to engines for Ultima. They have the right sump clearances and things like short water pumps.
I built my own but it still came to about £7K including testing on Peter Knights dyno.
Next question is how much do you build and sell an engine for?
Steve
steve_d said:
Boosted LS1 said:
I'm curious as to how much you guys are paying for your engines? Anybody care to give me an idea. Thanks.
Most get them from American speed. This page of their site is specific to engines for Ultima. They have the right sump clearances and things like short water pumps.
I built my own but it still came to about £7K including testing on Peter Knights dyno.
Next question is how much do you build and sell an engine for?
Steve
Thanks Steve, good link.
My prices vary from £7.5k for a built up lsx to around £14k for a darton MID 427 with custom forged crank, billet titanium rods and other nice parts etc. I have 2 of those on the go, one atmo and one blown. Things like pistons are custom made for the application, ie not off the shelf.
Boosted.
Edited by Boosted LS1 on Wednesday 28th June 09:02
bitzleftover said:
Apologies if this has been covered before but there seems to be a vast array of engines you can put in an Ultima, of course more power seems very tempting but if you want the car for road and trackday use is there an ideal combo ? Are there any problems associated with the bigger engines in terms of drivability ? Would like to use AS so any feedback regarding them would be helpful.
The answer to your questions are vary simple.
Even a 350bhp 350ci V8 will make an Ultima very quick, a track day car must have an accusump at a minimum or a preferably a dry sump system.
500 + bhp is vary quick 650 + bhp is just stupid ... but fun.
AS engines are the choice of the factory. Good thing is they have all the accessories on the engine in the right place. They do make good power and most are happy.
As with everything some love AS some hate them, some love Peter Knight, some hate them
I run a 377ci 685bhp and luv it,
G Man
I had a 630hp Supercharged .383 in my GTR and currently have a 400hp .350 in my Can-Am. They were both built to do different things, the GTR was an all-out performance machine, the Can-Am was built to be a high-performance road car.
Of the two (to me at least), for 99% of the time, the Can-Am is the better car.
Even with 400hp I guarantee that it will run rings round most things on trackdays too. I'll be doing some soon to get the appropriate video evidence to shut the Noble/Atom owners up
Of the two (to me at least), for 99% of the time, the Can-Am is the better car.
Even with 400hp I guarantee that it will run rings round most things on trackdays too. I'll be doing some soon to get the appropriate video evidence to shut the Noble/Atom owners up
Id seriousely look into building your own. take a look at www.jegs.com or www.summitracing.com and price up all the things youll need, then smile when you realise its almost half the price in pounds. like slinky said ours cost 2.7k and comes in at about 500 realworld bhp. also the engines a primative beast so way easy to work on.
www.587racing.com
www.587racing.com
Edited by hodgy587 on Wednesday 28th June 20:06
I just dont understand why ultima doesnt offer an LS7 engine as a standard fit option. Surely 500bhp as standard with none of the nasty little engine problems ultima owners seem to report would make the biggest performace improvemnt of all - it'll start every time and you can cane it without fear of busting it.
Problem with the ls7 is you will bust it, it's got cast pistons and there aren't any aftermarket ecu's fully developed to run it properly although progress is being made. The slightest hint of knock with an aftermarket ecu and then it'll be new piston time. The GM ecu relies heavily on knock sensors and thinks it's plugged into a vette, most of which spend most of the time crawling along at 50 mph hence the long warranty, in a vette.
Once you go aftermarket or buy a crate engine there's no warranty, a 36-1 trigger would be useful as would decent pistons. What's the point of having a great ls7 block when it's the pistons and liners that are suspect. Initially I liked this engine but now I see a few flaws. The forged titanium rods sound great but at $700 a set they can't be that good. Billet titanium crowers are $4000 a set! The ls7 rods had a flaking problem which may have been resolved by now.
No way would I supply a race package based on a stock crate ls7 and I have been asked.
Boosted.
Once you go aftermarket or buy a crate engine there's no warranty, a 36-1 trigger would be useful as would decent pistons. What's the point of having a great ls7 block when it's the pistons and liners that are suspect. Initially I liked this engine but now I see a few flaws. The forged titanium rods sound great but at $700 a set they can't be that good. Billet titanium crowers are $4000 a set! The ls7 rods had a flaking problem which may have been resolved by now.
No way would I supply a race package based on a stock crate ls7 and I have been asked.
Boosted.
boosted your right mate! from what i have seen the LS7 is just a LS2 with crapy liners! youd be much better going the sleeved LS1/2 route and you can take them out to 455 inch with a stroker crank.
also the new truck L92 might be worth a look at Boosted. i here a lot of talk on the LS1 tech about the block as being a great budget 427 block!
Chris.
also the new truck L92 might be worth a look at Boosted. i here a lot of talk on the LS1 tech about the block as being a great budget 427 block!
Chris.
I know that it must be a lot more comfortable working with what people are used to, The classic small block Chevy. That said the ls1 series enjoys a great rep here in the states. My engine builder has competed in off road trucks with a 406 cu in ls1 for the past three seasons. He opened it up to freshen it for this season and the thing looks great! We will never put the kind of engine abuse with an Ultima that he gets with a unlimited truck. The cost of the Ls1 is comming down and I will venture to say that if you bought a aliminum block for the small block and counted up the costs you would be in the ball park of an LS1. The difference would be that the LS1 is a smaller lighter stronger motor that with a FAST manifold a 90mm throtle body and some head and cam work will make 550 hp all day and give you all the advantages of fuel injection ecspaecaily low end throtle response and fuel millage. Do not mean to preach just think that the ultima is a great car and deserves a modern motor.
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