F1 use Microsoft ECUs -- god help us
Discussion
So, for 2008 to 2010 ...
So we can look forward to:
- cars stopping at random
- cars doing things randomly wrong for no reason
- drivers stopping to switch the engines off and then back on during a race
- the engines switching off while on the starting grid because a software update has just been released on the Internet from Redmond
- the 2008 software being released in 2011
- viruses
- spyware
- etc etc
So will the steering wheels be fitted with CTRL-ALT-DEL in future?
I'd laugh, but it's not funny!
autosport.com said:
The FIA's World Motor Sport Council also announced on Wednesday that Microsoft MES will be official ECU supplier in that same period.
So we can look forward to:
- cars stopping at random
- cars doing things randomly wrong for no reason
- drivers stopping to switch the engines off and then back on during a race
- the engines switching off while on the starting grid because a software update has just been released on the Internet from Redmond
- the 2008 software being released in 2011
- viruses
- spyware
- etc etc
So will the steering wheels be fitted with CTRL-ALT-DEL in future?
I'd laugh, but it's not funny!
Your engine has caught fire. Do you want to switch off the fuel pump?
[ YES ] [ NO ]
clicks YES
Are you sure you want to switch off the fuel pump?
[ YES ] [ NO ]
clicks YES
Please wait while MS Engine Control prepares to switch off your fuel pump...
MS Engine Control has experienced a serious error. MS Engine Control can send details of this error to Micro Shaft to help enhance the quality of our future software releases. Please click Send to send an error report, or click Don't Send to end the program without sending an error report.
[ SEND ] [ DON'T SEND ]
clicks DON'T SEND
WARNING: MS Engine Control has thrown unknown exception in fuelsys.dll. Your program will now terminate.
[ OK ]
[ YES ] [ NO ]
clicks YES
Are you sure you want to switch off the fuel pump?
[ YES ] [ NO ]
clicks YES
Please wait while MS Engine Control prepares to switch off your fuel pump...
MS Engine Control has experienced a serious error. MS Engine Control can send details of this error to Micro Shaft to help enhance the quality of our future software releases. Please click Send to send an error report, or click Don't Send to end the program without sending an error report.
[ SEND ] [ DON'T SEND ]
clicks DON'T SEND
WARNING: MS Engine Control has thrown unknown exception in fuelsys.dll. Your program will now terminate.
[ OK ]
Jokes aside, this is probably not bad news.
Most likely Microsoft MES - perhaps referring to the joint Microsoft and Siemens venture in Manufacturing Execution Systems (MES) - will perform system integration, rather than software development. As far as I'm aware Microsoft has no expertise in the field of ECUs. There will probably be an unnamed sub-contractor to develop the actual ECU, and Microsoft will probably work on integrating it to the specific manufacturers' engines.
As much flak Microsoft receives, there are few companies or organisations that can match them when it comes to system development and integration for very complex software and software-hardware solutions. Windows is a much more complicated project than most people realise; hardly comparable with Mac OS and most Linux flavours.
Most likely Microsoft MES - perhaps referring to the joint Microsoft and Siemens venture in Manufacturing Execution Systems (MES) - will perform system integration, rather than software development. As far as I'm aware Microsoft has no expertise in the field of ECUs. There will probably be an unnamed sub-contractor to develop the actual ECU, and Microsoft will probably work on integrating it to the specific manufacturers' engines.
As much flak Microsoft receives, there are few companies or organisations that can match them when it comes to system development and integration for very complex software and software-hardware solutions. Windows is a much more complicated project than most people realise; hardly comparable with Mac OS and most Linux flavours.
Jungles said:
As much flak Microsoft receives, there are few companies or organisations that can match them when it comes to system development and integration for very complex software and software-hardware solutions. Windows is a much more complicated project than most people realise; hardly comparable with Mac OS and most Linux flavours.
You've got to be kidding - I can't think of one example of Microshaft being involved in integrated software-hardware solutions. As for systems development, they've bought most of the rasonable code in their portfolio. Windows is the dominant OS because of their marketing and bully boy tactics - As a product, it's nowhere near the likes of Solaris, AIX etc. Do you know of any MS product that doesn't crash with random regularity?
I went to an interview with the F1 governing body at Biggin Hill, who are responsible for defining the standard ECU that everybody uses. IIRC, this was just before the Mosley debacle last year.
They were advertising for an electronics engineer. I already knew that they were in the process of introducing more constraints on F1 teams by introducing an FIA certified ECU that teams had to use for acceptance by scrutineers. The skills that they were advertising for were appropriate for the design of parts of a motorvehicle ECU. Having relevant experience with appropriate technologies, I thought I'd give it a shot.
It turned out that those skills were requested because they were also relevant to their video systems that are used to capture and broadcast pictures from F1 racecars. They'd designed the kit, and they wanted someone with the skills to keep on top of any problems that they might have in future. Most significantly they wanted someone to go to the actual race events and keep the timing and communication systems running.
The most significant thing from my point of view was the travelling. Some may love it, but it's not my thing, loosing weekend after weekend to be slaving away, whilst there's a perfectly good race going on! Maybe if it had been a team, it would have been different. Anyhow they asked directly about this aspect and I think they figured out that I wasn't really up for being a roving site maintainance man.
I think my point is, that I am certain that they have, within the last 18 months employed people that would be capable of doing this job. Essentially they have either had a cockup on what they have done, or for some crazy reason figured that microsoft would make a better job of it for them.
However it hangs, it's very sad indeed. Firstly because the teams can't do what they want, but secondly the F1 Governing body figure that they have to intervene, and don't have the ability to realise a workable solution on the ground.
The best outcome with all of this, to my mind, is that the teams should be allowed to do what they want, but the F1 Governing body should provide standardised solutions that can be used by teams that have to operate to a budget.
They were advertising for an electronics engineer. I already knew that they were in the process of introducing more constraints on F1 teams by introducing an FIA certified ECU that teams had to use for acceptance by scrutineers. The skills that they were advertising for were appropriate for the design of parts of a motorvehicle ECU. Having relevant experience with appropriate technologies, I thought I'd give it a shot.
It turned out that those skills were requested because they were also relevant to their video systems that are used to capture and broadcast pictures from F1 racecars. They'd designed the kit, and they wanted someone with the skills to keep on top of any problems that they might have in future. Most significantly they wanted someone to go to the actual race events and keep the timing and communication systems running.
The most significant thing from my point of view was the travelling. Some may love it, but it's not my thing, loosing weekend after weekend to be slaving away, whilst there's a perfectly good race going on! Maybe if it had been a team, it would have been different. Anyhow they asked directly about this aspect and I think they figured out that I wasn't really up for being a roving site maintainance man.
I think my point is, that I am certain that they have, within the last 18 months employed people that would be capable of doing this job. Essentially they have either had a cockup on what they have done, or for some crazy reason figured that microsoft would make a better job of it for them.
However it hangs, it's very sad indeed. Firstly because the teams can't do what they want, but secondly the F1 Governing body figure that they have to intervene, and don't have the ability to realise a workable solution on the ground.
The best outcome with all of this, to my mind, is that the teams should be allowed to do what they want, but the F1 Governing body should provide standardised solutions that can be used by teams that have to operate to a budget.
Edited by dilbert on Wednesday 5th July 19:29
djmotorsport said:
You've got to be kidding - I can't think of one example of Microshaft being involved in integrated software-hardware solutions. As for systems development, they've bought most of the rasonable code in their portfolio. Windows is the dominant OS because of their marketing and bully boy tactics - As a product, it's nowhere near the likes of Solaris, AIX etc. Do you know of any MS product that doesn't crash with random regularity?
As this is off-topic, this post will be my only reply. Consumer operating systems like Windows XP Home cannot be compared with Solaris or Unix-derived solutions, because there is a much greater demand for compatibility and range of operating environments that it must cater for. It's a one-size-fits-all product, and there are compromises associated with its design, and these compromises create weaknesses that cannot be reasonably avoided. Unix-derived enterprise systems (such as Solaris) tailor a specific market with narrower requirements and scope. MS Windows Server series of operating systems are proven solutions that are just as stable, if not more stable, than Unix-based solutions. Linux is typically used by enthusiasts who are reasonably competent with computers, not Mr and Mrs Haventaclue. No mainstream Unix-derived solution has the same demand for compatibility, ease-of-use, and fool-proofing as Microsoft Windows.
As for Microsoft products that don't crash with random regularity, examples are numerous. In my 4 years of using Windows XP, I have never suffered a "random" crash (and only three crashes in total). MS Office is the same - no crashes at all, despite some very intensive use. MS Visual Studio has also been crash-free. At my work, our Windows Server 2003 servers suffer less than half the number of faults as our Linux-run servers. Most of the problems with our Windows servers are due to broken code in in-house database projects, not the system itself. In fact, I have yet to come across any IT professional or enthusiast who has experienced more "random" crashes with latest versions of Windows than with latest versions of alternative operating systems (Mac OS being a notable exception, but again, an unfair comparison) in their day-to-day rigs.
I'm not a fan of Microsoft - or Micro Shaft as I prefer to call them - but credit should be given where it is due. As an engineering and computer-science graduate, I can poke holes in Microsoft's designs all day. But I'm also a corporate professional, and from that rational and risk-averse point of view, Microsoft will always be the first place to look for meeting new IT requirements, because Microsoft products are more often than not, the most easy to use, easy to integrate, expandable, feature-rich, and robustly supported than most rival vendors' products.
Some clarification ...
McLaren Electronic Systems, an independent developer within McLaren's group of companies, is behind the successful bid with Microsoft to supply ECUs in Formula One from 2008, autosport.com can reveal.
Although the exact identity of the 'Microsoft MES' company that was announced by the FIA yesterday was unclear, sources have confirmed that the firm involved with Microsoft is McLaren Electronic Systems.
The company has been an independent developer of systems for more than 15 years, and supplies all the current competitors in F1.
That does make it slightly more plausible!
autosport.com said:
McLaren Electronic Systems, an independent developer within McLaren's group of companies, is behind the successful bid with Microsoft to supply ECUs in Formula One from 2008, autosport.com can reveal.
Although the exact identity of the 'Microsoft MES' company that was announced by the FIA yesterday was unclear, sources have confirmed that the firm involved with Microsoft is McLaren Electronic Systems.
The company has been an independent developer of systems for more than 15 years, and supplies all the current competitors in F1.
That does make it slightly more plausible!
Joe911 said:
So, for 2008 to 2010 ...
So we can look forward to:
- cars stopping at random
- cars doing things randomly wrong for no reason
- drivers stopping to switch the engines off and then back on during a race
- the engines switching off while on the starting grid because a software update has just been released on the Internet from Redmond
- the 2008 software being released in 2011
- viruses
- spyware
- etc etc
So will the steering wheels be fitted with CTRL-ALT-DEL in future?
I'd laugh, but it's not funny!
autosport.com said:
The FIA's World Motor Sport Council also announced on Wednesday that Microsoft MES will be official ECU supplier in that same period.
So we can look forward to:
- cars stopping at random
- cars doing things randomly wrong for no reason
- drivers stopping to switch the engines off and then back on during a race
- the engines switching off while on the starting grid because a software update has just been released on the Internet from Redmond
- the 2008 software being released in 2011
- viruses
- spyware
- etc etc
So will the steering wheels be fitted with CTRL-ALT-DEL in future?
I'd laugh, but it's not funny!
hahahahahahahaa True.
Joe911 said:
Some clarification ...
McLaren Electronic Systems, an independent developer within McLaren's group of companies, is behind the successful bid with Microsoft to supply ECUs in Formula One from 2008, autosport.com can reveal.
Although the exact identity of the 'Microsoft MES' company that was announced by the FIA yesterday was unclear, sources have confirmed that the firm involved with Microsoft is McLaren Electronic Systems.
The company has been an independent developer of systems for more than 15 years, and supplies all the current competitors in F1.
That does make it slightly more plausible!
Finally something solid to chew on. If they are already suppying F1 teams now, then they should be good. autosport.com said:
McLaren Electronic Systems, an independent developer within McLaren's group of companies, is behind the successful bid with Microsoft to supply ECUs in Formula One from 2008, autosport.com can reveal.
Although the exact identity of the 'Microsoft MES' company that was announced by the FIA yesterday was unclear, sources have confirmed that the firm involved with Microsoft is McLaren Electronic Systems.
The company has been an independent developer of systems for more than 15 years, and supplies all the current competitors in F1.
That does make it slightly more plausible!
Unless if there is a conflict of interest with McLaren. 
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