Take Care In France...

[WildCat]

Per the papers today - French intend to impound cars of British drivers who break the traffic laws in France..

French police have been given authority to impose on the spot fines of up to £260 und if you cannot pay - car ist impounded. Fine increase longer the car ist in the pound...

Last year they copped 4 million Brits speeding und from next year plan to make all foreign drivers pay for fines levied in France.

France raised a stealth taxt of £135 million from its 1015 speed cameras und now plant to introduce red light cams as the French are still colour blind in this respect..

They also plan to increase traffic police to really hammer tailgaters too .. that one I do agree with .. )

It seem British drivers who drove through France to watch the football in Germany fell foul of these cams which are "hidden behind hedges und there are also speed und tailgating cams reportedly hidden in the overhead gantries..

Both Germany und France had higher KSI rates than here - but this ist reducing. Sure there are cams - but there are less of these und more cops in reality.

Ist to warn to be aware that France ist now much more rigid than ever und to be sure to consult the radarfixe und Radarfalle sites for cam locations

[jith]

WildCat said:

Per the papers today - French intend to impound cars of British drivers who break the traffic laws in France..

French police have been given authority to impose on the spot fines of up to £260 und if you cannot pay - car ist impounded. Fine increase longer the car ist in the pound...

Last year they copped 4 million Brits speeding und from next year plan to make all foreign drivers pay for fines levied in France.

France raised a stealth taxt of £135 million from its 1015 speed cameras und now plant to introduce red light cams as the French are still colour blind in this respect..

They also plan to increase traffic police to really hammer tailgaters too .. that one I do agree with .. )

It seem British drivers who drove through France to watch the football in Germany fell foul of these cams which are "hidden behind hedges und there are also speed und tailgating cams reportedly hidden in the overhead gantries..

Both Germany und France had higher KSI rates than here - but this ist reducing. Sure there are cams - but there are less of these und more cops in reality.

Ist to warn to be aware that France ist now much more rigid than ever und to be sure to consult the radarfixe und Radarfalle sites for cam locations

Y'know I adore France and will probably retire there; but the French Authorities are going to make some serious enemies with this kind of behaviour.
Impounding the vehicle of a driver from another nation is nakedly aggressive and clearly a serious breach of human rights and will doubtless end up in the European Courts.
These courts have a backlog of cases due to governments, including ours, behaving in this manner: why is it they assume this is acceptable.
We need to put names and faces to those who sanction these policies.

[granville]

What a great shame all this is becoming.

I must say, on our recent jolly en France, I was far more conscious of not exceeding the dreaded 155 kph 'abuse it & lose it' velocity, as highlighted in a recent edition of EVO.

What is the world coming to when a Brit cannot legitimately charge an empty N route at 150 mph without worrying about the same, prevalent communism which blights the driving back home?

How is it, in this age of technological bedazzlement that western governments cannot find the balls to admit that car based hyper speeds are not bad, per se, here and there, now and then?

[dcb]

derestrictor said:

What is the world coming to when a Brit cannot legitimately charge
an empty N route at 150 mph without worrying about the same,
prevalent communism which blights the driving back home?

Feared as I am to reply to a destricitor post, 150 mph is only
some 70 mph past their limits.

Try further East for petrol head heaven.

150 mph is lane 2 material there.

All Western Governments [except one] impose limits on
their drivers.

Draw your own conclusions.

It's just a question of being comfortable of driving at
120 mph in traffic, mixing it with the 2CVs and the lorries
*AND* getting out of the way fast enough
to get out of the way of the fast moving traffic [ 155 plus mph].

Do you even know what your car's stopping distance is from 120 mph ?

More tea vicar ?

[8Pack]

derestrictor said:

What a great shame all this is becoming.

I must say, on our recent jolly en France, I was far more conscious of not exceeding the dreaded 155 kph 'abuse it & lose it' velocity, as highlighted in a recent edition of EVO.

What is the world coming to when a Brit cannot legitimately charge an empty N route at 150 mph without worrying about the same, prevalent communism which blights the driving back home?

How is it, in this age of technological bedazzlement that western governments cannot find the balls to admit that car based hyper speeds are not bad, per se, here and there, now and then?

Yes, strangely DER. It is becoming cheaper now to AirFreight your car to your destination than to drive it there......with aero engines that consume 4 galls/15 secs (multiplied by 2 0r 4).............

[BigBob]

jith said:

Impounding the vehicle of a driver from another nation is nakedly aggressive and clearly a serious breach of human rights and will doubtless end up in the European Courts.

..... and exactly how much notice of any judgement that doesn't suit them will France take?



BB

[DucatiGary]

on our recent trip to Lemans we (3 911's) got pulled for going too slow by the french BIB on our way back.

complaining we should be travelling at least 130kmh and NOT below as it could be dangerous and the cars are made to go that fast. I do like their thinking though.

somone else on here got a 750 euro fine and when he asked for a reciept or proof of payment the french BIB let him go.

[jith]

BigBob said:

jith said:

Impounding the vehicle of a driver from another nation is nakedly aggressive and clearly a serious breach of human rights and will doubtless end up in the European Courts.

..... and exactly how much notice of any judgement that doesn't suit them will France take?



BB

Point taken Bob, but the thing that will make them sit up and listen are the French people themselves; if they start on the populus they will bring the country to a standstill, history has shown that many times.

[flemke]

WildCat said:

Per the papers today - French intend to impound cars of British drivers who break the traffic laws in France..

French police have been given authority to impose on the spot fines of up to £260 und if you cannot pay - car ist impounded. Fine increase longer the car ist in the pound...

Perhaps something has changed, but this sort of policy has been in place for a few years.

The idea was that if your speed was more than X (used to be 40kph) over the limit, the law "required" the offender to appear before a magistrate in order to explain himself. After this the mag would declare the penalty, etc.

Because there is no guarantee that a non-resident offender will return at the appointed future date to appear before the mag, the authorities hold onto your wheels to encourage you to come back.

Speeding laws themselves might be wrong, but - if you cannot pay your fine on the spot - it's hard to see what's wrong with a mechanism that ensures that you're motivated to do so after you're beyond the reach of the local authorities.

[vonhosen]

flemke said:

WildCat said:

Per the papers today - French intend to impound cars of British drivers who break the traffic laws in France..

French police have been given authority to impose on the spot fines of up to £260 und if you cannot pay - car ist impounded. Fine increase longer the car ist in the pound...

Perhaps something has changed, but this sort of policy has been in place for a few years.

The idea was that if your speed was more than X (used to be 40kph) over the limit, the law "required" the offender to appear before a magistrate in order to explain himself. After this the mag would declare the penalty, etc.

Because there is no guarantee that a non-resident offender will return at the appointed future date to appear before the mag, the authorities hold onto your wheels to encourage you to come back.

Speeding laws themselves might be wrong, but - if you cannot pay your fine on the spot - it's hard to see what's wrong with a mechanism that ensures that you're motivated to do so after you're beyond the reach of the local authorities.

Similar thing is going to start happening here under the Road Safey bill. A system of deposits for drivers without a UK address.

[vipers]

You think thats hard driving in France, Aberdeen is the first city in the UK to impose a blanket 20 mph limit in town.....to reduce accidents, for gods sake EDUCATE THE BLOODY PEDESTRIANS.

Ever tried maintaining 20 whilst concentrating on the road?

[deeps]

"TAKE CARE IN FRANCE"

and take extra care if you're Italian

[BigBob]

jith said:

BigBob said:

jith said:

Impounding the vehicle of a driver from another nation is nakedly aggressive and clearly a serious breach of human rights and will doubtless end up in the European Courts.

..... and exactly how much notice of any judgement that doesn't suit them will France take?



BB

Point taken Bob, but the thing that will make them sit up and listen are the French people themselves; if they start on the populus they will bring the country to a standstill, history has shown that many times.

One of the things I admire about them mate - they still haven't forgotten the Bastille and all that.

If they don't like something, they go all out to change it - Us, we moan, groan and write to forums


BB

[JMGS4]

flemke said:

WildCat said:

Per the papers today - French intend to impound cars of British drivers who break the traffic laws in France..

French police have been given authority to impose on the spot fines of up to £260 und if you cannot pay - car ist impounded. Fine increase longer the car ist in the pound...

Perhaps something has changed, but this sort of policy has been in place for a few years.

The idea was that if your speed was more than X (used to be 40kph) over the limit, the law "required" the offender to appear before a magistrate in order to explain himself. After this the mag would declare the penalty, etc.

Because there is no guarantee that a non-resident offender will return at the appointed future date to appear before the mag, the authorities hold onto your wheels to encourage you to come back.

Speeding laws themselves might be wrong, but - if you cannot pay your fine on the spot - it's hard to see what's wrong with a mechanism that ensures that you're motivated to do so after you're beyond the reach of the local authorities.

This happens in GB, I've seen a South African arrested because he was "slightly" over the speed limit and he was held in cells until the next mornings magistrates court....

In Germany unless you leave a large deposit (around €10000,-) they can and will impound the car to ensure you'll come back...BUT only in extreme cases

Johnny Cecotto fell foul of the german police about 8 years ago (he'd done over 20 undertakes, also using the hard shoulder to undertake, and threatening behaviour, after a Hockenheim meet), he was arrested at the A5/Basel border and had to leave his car and 15000 DM so that he would appear, otherwise he'd have been in the cells until trial.

[Polarbert]

DucatiGary said:

on our recent trip to Lemans we (3 911's) got pulled for going too slow by the french BIB on our way back.

complaining we should be travelling at least 130kmh and NOT below as it could be dangerous and the cars are made to go that fast. I do like their thinking though.

somone else on here got a 750 euro fine and when he asked for a reciept or proof of payment the french BIB let him go.

Not referring to me there are you mate?

They would not tell me a damn thing. I kept asking them where my money was going and what it would be used for. 'Itz explained on the form sir' Is it ing bollox! What tossers. I hate the french police so much. And I miss that money.


Ah well, at least it got me well known amongst the PH fraterinity at LM.

[johnbear]

Polarbert, how fast / how far were you over the limit?

I am a bit concerned, as I am travel through france in September.

[nel]

As pointed out by Flemke, this is not really a new thing - they've been doing it for years. Generally they hold the vehicle versus payment of a severe on-the-spot fine and the surrender of your licence. Once these conditions are met, your passenger can then drive you and the car home, with the speeding offence then passing before the beak for ratification. In theory the court could decide that the fine is lower and you get some money back (seem to remember this happened to a PHer), but the inverse is also true. Licence is returned through the post. Extreme speeding could lead to a short time in chokey with big Pierre whilst they wake up the froggy legislature for them to see you.

This vehicle impounding is actually against the law and supposedly is not used by any other European authority, but the french routinely ignore all edicts coming out of Brussels and don't give a stuff. Note that you guys have got it easy - they have also passed a new law allowing them to seize the car of a french resident caught speeding in a car registered in his or her name and sell it, with the government keeping the proceeds. (Hence many cars registered in the name of a relative!).

The french population are pretty pissed off about this repression, but unfortunately will not be getting out the guillotine fast enough to catch Chirac before retirement. Mind you, the corruption charges await him but the lenteur of the french legal system will probably give him time to die before sentencing.

The introduction of radars and the overall crack down has been associated with a dramatic drop in the number of deaths on the road, partly genuine (I was regularly overtaken when cruising at 100 mph before - now I'm generally the fastest thing on the road) and partly through manipulation of the stats (the injured have to die faster now to be counted as a road accident fatality).

Whatever - the end result is bad news for those who enjoyed the open gallic roads, and the EU are going to go on to make it much worse.

:frown:

[johnbear]

So if I am travelling down toll roads / french motorways what speed sholdn't I exceed to avoid impound / large penalty?

[nel]

johnbear said:

So if I am travelling down toll roads / french motorways what speed sholdn't I exceed to avoid impound / large penalty?

Over 170 kph and they can take your licence (40 kph over limit), but then they do also take 5% off for error so in theory you're OK up to around 178. Personally I've modified my behaviour from cruising at 180/190 down to 160. If they catch you at 160 they may still fine you but it shouldn't be at cheek spreading levels - a good idea to have a healthy wodge of cash with you just in case.

If you want to avoid almost all risk, then drive at 145 kph all the way and try not to fall asleep.

[dcb]

johnbear said:

So if I am travelling down toll roads / french motorways what speed
sholdn't I exceed to avoid impound / large penalty?

About 160 kph.

Over the last fifteen years that I've been driving over there,
the French coppers don't seem to bother about 150 kph in the dry
in a 130 kph limit.

Over 160 kph they might just take an interest.
Over 170 kph they will be on your case.

I pop the cruise on at 150 kph and take along a few
interesting CDs.