ST2 v Clio V6 v Focus RS
Discussion
Hi,
(or ST3 ?)
Not up on my hot hatches, but wondered if anyone could give me views on the above.
i am considering one of these as a bit of fun between selling one of my cars end of Aug and when the new one comes
early next year.
What's quickest on track ??
which will depreciate least over above period ??
which is most tunable, i.e. chip and suspension??
any other input appreciated.
cheers
G.
(or ST3 ?)
Not up on my hot hatches, but wondered if anyone could give me views on the above.
i am considering one of these as a bit of fun between selling one of my cars end of Aug and when the new one comes
early next year.
What's quickest on track ??
which will depreciate least over above period ??
which is most tunable, i.e. chip and suspension??
any other input appreciated.
cheers
G.
Edited by glenn mcmenamin on Monday 10th July 14:03
Possibly biased answers here in the Ford section, however they are very different beasts.
The Clio V6 is a small, impractical, fast car - the ST is IMO a sports car for the childish businessman and the RS is somewhere in between.
It was widely publisised that the ST beat the RS round the 'Ring, but don't know about normal tracks.
My friend was faced with the ST v RS choice recently, and the ST3 arrives on Friday
The Clio V6 is a small, impractical, fast car - the ST is IMO a sports car for the childish businessman and the RS is somewhere in between.
It was widely publisised that the ST beat the RS round the 'Ring, but don't know about normal tracks.
My friend was faced with the ST v RS choice recently, and the ST3 arrives on Friday
The Focus RS will probably hold its value best (assuming you look after it and don't start modifying it). I've driven the ST, and it was splendid, but a lot more refined than I expect the Clio and RS would be.
I suspect the ST has the highest tuning potential. A simple chip will get you 265 BHP before you start doing other stuff to it - question is, if you're not planning to keep it, why would you spend a lot on tuning?
WHat do you want out of your car? Do you need to carry luggage or passengers? How much mileage do you do?
I suspect the ST has the highest tuning potential. A simple chip will get you 265 BHP before you start doing other stuff to it - question is, if you're not planning to keep it, why would you spend a lot on tuning?
WHat do you want out of your car? Do you need to carry luggage or passengers? How much mileage do you do?
Witchfinder said:
The Focus RS will probably hold its value best (assuming you look after it and don't start modifying it). I've driven the ST, and it was splendid, but a lot more refined than I expect the Clio and RS would be.
I suspect the ST has the highest tuning potential. A simple chip will get you 265 BHP before you start doing other stuff to it - question is, if you're not planning to keep it, why would you spend a lot on tuning?
WHat do you want out of your car? Do you need to carry luggage or passengers? How much mileage do you do?
I suspect the ST has the highest tuning potential. A simple chip will get you 265 BHP before you start doing other stuff to it - question is, if you're not planning to keep it, why would you spend a lot on tuning?
WHat do you want out of your car? Do you need to carry luggage or passengers? How much mileage do you do?
cheers,
what to do a few track days at bedford, as my usual steed is too noisy there.
would only look at a chip upgrade, as this should be reversable come sale time ??
is the ST faster than an RS 0-60 ??
G.
glenn mcmenamin said:
cheers,
what to do a few track days at bedford, as my usual steed is too noisy there.
would only look at a chip upgrade, as this should be reversable come sale time ??
is the ST faster than an RS 0-60 ??
G.
Off the top of my head, the ST hits 60 in 6.5 and the RS in 5.9
That's only half the story though, the ST is in fact a good deal faster in the midrange than even the Mk V VW Golf R32 and the BMW 130i (and by a good deal faster, I mean by over a second between 40 and 60, 50 and 70)
The most common chip for the Focus is the Bluefin. You actually get a little handheld gubbins that plugs into the diagnostics port, stores your old ECU settings and overwrites them with new ones. This means it can be reverted whenever you like. I don't know how easily it's detected though. The RS (Std 212 BHP) is good for 240 BHP with the chip, and I think the ST can hit a good 265 BHP.
For track fun, the Clio might be the best choice - rear drive and certainly the most wacky. Of the three, I'd choose the ST as a daily car, the RS as a fun car, and the Clio if I was a bing-bong-mental-man. Probably the RS combines the best of both worlds, and if you look after it well, it shouldn't lose you too much money.
If I were spending my own money, I'd be choosing between the RS and the ST. The ST would probably win for being newer and more comfortable, and for the awesome noise it makes, but the RS is already a modern classic.
Edited by Witchfinder on Tuesday 11th July 17:32
atgsambo said:
Oh and all this ST beat the RS round the ring , Cough cough can i smell bullshit :P Good Ford PR tho to hype the ST
The figues I quoted are from Evo magazine's test articles. They obtain them with a Vbox I believe. There's a certain amount of Ford PR BS about the ST being quicker than the RS around the 'ring, but that 5-cylinder turbo is one heck of an engine.
Witchfinder said:
The Focus RS will probably hold its value best (assuming you look after it and don't start modifying it). I've driven the ST, and it was splendid, but a lot more refined than I expect the Clio and RS would be.
I suspect the ST has the highest tuning potential. A simple chip will get you 265 BHP before you start doing other stuff to it - question is, if you're not planning to keep it, why would you spend a lot on tuning?
WHat do you want out of your car? Do you need to carry luggage or passengers? How much mileage do you do?
Good summary. I suspect the ST has the highest tuning potential. A simple chip will get you 265 BHP before you start doing other stuff to it - question is, if you're not planning to keep it, why would you spend a lot on tuning?
WHat do you want out of your car? Do you need to carry luggage or passengers? How much mileage do you do?
If it's a short-term fun car, then RS or Clio. The ST will plummet in value, being nearly-new. Not driven either of the first two, both have a good rep...although the Mk2 V6 is the safer bet all-round than the Mk1, if you can afford the £££. It'd probably feel the most special as well, but might not be as reliable and certainly won't be as practical as the RS - it is a 2-seater with a small leaky boot, after all!
On-track I'd say the RS will feel the most focused (no pun), the V6 is a mini-911 so probably the most fun if you're confident, the ST probably the easiest to drive and to tune.
havoc said:
Witchfinder said:
The Focus RS will probably hold its value best (assuming you look after it and don't start modifying it). I've driven the ST, and it was splendid, but a lot more refined than I expect the Clio and RS would be.
I suspect the ST has the highest tuning potential. A simple chip will get you 265 BHP before you start doing other stuff to it - question is, if you're not planning to keep it, why would you spend a lot on tuning?
WHat do you want out of your car? Do you need to carry luggage or passengers? How much mileage do you do?
Good summary. I suspect the ST has the highest tuning potential. A simple chip will get you 265 BHP before you start doing other stuff to it - question is, if you're not planning to keep it, why would you spend a lot on tuning?
WHat do you want out of your car? Do you need to carry luggage or passengers? How much mileage do you do?
If it's a short-term fun car, then RS or Clio. The ST will plummet in value, being nearly-new. Not driven either of the first two, both have a good rep...although the Mk2 V6 is the safer bet all-round than the Mk1, if you can afford the £££. It'd probably feel the most special as well, but might not be as reliable and certainly won't be as practical as the RS - it is a 2-seater with a small leaky boot, after all!
On-track I'd say the RS will feel the most focused (no pun), the V6 is a mini-911 so probably the most fun if you're confident, the ST probably the easiest to drive and to tune.
I'm swaying towrd the Clio.
It's just going to be my fun bitch for a while, so practicality goes out the window.
911 like handling suits me fine.
Can't seem to find a good one for much less the £18,000 though !!!
G.
Glenn - I'm totally biased but I'd go for the ST!!
IMO - The clio is too harsh and the golf overpriced.
If you want to know more in the "modding side" and some other views of drivers who've sold various things in favour of the ST then try here; www.focusstoc.co.uk.
IMO - The clio is too harsh and the golf overpriced.
If you want to know more in the "modding side" and some other views of drivers who've sold various things in favour of the ST then try here; www.focusstoc.co.uk.
glenn mcmenamin said:
I'm swaying towrd the Clio.
It's just going to be my fun bitch for a while, so practicality goes out the window.
911 like handling suits me fine.
Can't seem to find a good one for much less the £18,000 though !!!
G.
It's just going to be my fun bitch for a while, so practicality goes out the window.
911 like handling suits me fine.
Can't seem to find a good one for much less the £18,000 though !!!
G.
If you want a solid every day road car that's comfortable, refined and quick the ST will tick all the boxes. However if you're looking for a fun bitch you should keep swaying towards the Clio.
The Clio V6 is one mad beast of a car and a future motoring classic. Looking at 0-60mph and lap times misses the point with that car. I rate it as one of the few hot hatches with real soul (along with 147 GTA, 'Grale & Cossie) and Renault should applauded for even thinking of building it.
There are several MkI V6's around for £12k mark but what you really want is the revised MkII (aka 255 version) but as you've seen it is tough to find a good one for less than £18k. However, put it this way, if you buy a £19k V6 or a £19k ST3 guess which one will be worth more in a year's time? (Clue - not the blue oval)
Do it, do it, do it.
And if you're wondering if I'm biased take a look at my profile...
Edited by thekirbyfake on Sunday 16th July 21:48
Well my friend picked up the ST3, and I am very impressed! Very very impressed!
Doesn't feel massively powerful or fast, but the speedo just climbs and climbs, very smooth power delivery!
The Bluefin and I/C arrive next week!!
For all those interested, I have been told by a reliable source that the next ECU update will block the Bluefin from being installed, so if you want one, get it now!!
Doesn't feel massively powerful or fast, but the speedo just climbs and climbs, very smooth power delivery!
The Bluefin and I/C arrive next week!!
For all those interested, I have been told by a reliable source that the next ECU update will block the Bluefin from being installed, so if you want one, get it now!!
Witchfinder said:
atgsambo said:
Oh and all this ST beat the RS round the ring , Cough cough can i smell bullshit :P Good Ford PR tho to hype the ST
The figues I quoted are from Evo magazine's test articles. They obtain them with a Vbox I believe. There's a certain amount of Ford PR BS about the ST being quicker than the RS around the 'ring, but that 5-cylinder turbo is one heck of an engine.
Topgear test track , Driven by the one and only stig
51
Ford Focus RS
1.32.2
52
Lotus Esprit V8
1.32.5
53
Audi TT V6
1.32.7
54
Jaguar E-Type
1.32.8
55
MG ZT
1.33
56
Noble
1.33.1
57
Volkswagen Golf R32
1.33.2
58
Mercedes SL55 AMG
1.33.2
59
Cadillac CTS-V
1.33.3
60
Clio Cup
1.33.8
61
Holden Monaro
1.33.9
62
Ford Focus ST
1.34.9
atgsambo said:
Topgear test track , Driven by the one and only stig
Ford Focus RS 1.32.2
Ford Focus ST 1.34.9
Ford Focus RS 1.32.2
Ford Focus ST 1.34.9
I really shouldn't bite but...
That ST time was done in horrendous fog on a greasy track.
Either way, the RS is a much better track toy than the ST which has no lsd, is taller & heavier, has a higher CoG and a heavier engine plonked right over the nose.
Brembo, Sparco, Quaife & Oz show the intent of the RS.
On a road as an everyday, all year round car the ST is king. The in gear times are simply phenominal.
As a car which makes me smile every time I see one the Clio V6 is top dog. Has the OP bought one yet? Come on, what are you waiting for?
Edited by thekirbyfake on Tuesday 18th July 13:56
thekirbyfake said:
On a road as an everyday, all year round car the ST is king. The in gear times are simply phenominal.
But he's said it's a fun bitch...so entertainment is the top priority. And having been in a Focus ST, I'd probably say it'd be bottom of the three.
Why? Because it's got TOO much grip and TOO exploitable an engine. My brother could jump in that and drive fast, and he's a no-nothing numpty when it comes to cars who still drives with his palm across the airbag at times (
I have TRIED, Lord how I've TRIED!!! ) As for in-gear times...isn't that used to show diesel cars in a good light when in reality they'd get mullered by proper performance engines?!?
(I don't rate in-gear times when talking about a 'fun' car...they're very important in 'everyday' driving as they make driving easier and the power more accessible, but where's the fun in having power right there and not having to drive properly and with forethought to get it???)
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