Rant sent to Orange.
Discussion
Amazing, isn't it, how such little things can cause such annoyance. Orange have announced that they will be charging for itemised billing, and turning it on by default so that you have to text to a particular number to turn it off. Why this has lit my pisskettle, I dunno. But it has.
So I sent the following "enquiry" to Orange:
So I sent the following "enquiry" to Orange:
Commander Jameson said:
I'm confused.
I've been an Orange customer for years, quietly paying over the odds for sub-par service plans and a less than exhilarating selection of handsets (which I've religiously upgraded, every year) on the basis that the coverage was good and the bill was detailed.
Apparently, Orange have suddenly realised that there's a drop of their customers' blood that they're not getting, and have decided to start charging for an itemised bill.
Notwithstanding the sheer bloody cheek of asking for even more money on top of the £70ish I pay every month (for the aforementioned sub-par plans on two handsets), I am led to wonder what has suddenly changed. Has laser printer toner suddenly gone up in price? Is there a world shortage of very cheap paper?
As I am a mug, I will probably upgrade my handset yet again and continue to shovel my money into Orange's coffers in exchange for yet more old rope. However, at the earliest opportunity (specifically, when O2 or another provider offer the HTC Prophet handset, AKA the SPV M600) I will be cheerfully ringing up and asking to be put through to Disconnections.
O2 are at least making noises about looking after their existing customers.
Orange are not.
I don't expect an answer to this message, as the only thing Orange is really interested in is my Direct Debit mandate. However, there's an outside chance that someone might read this and realise that attempting to wring every last penny out of your customers might make them seek service elsewhere.
I've been an Orange customer for years, quietly paying over the odds for sub-par service plans and a less than exhilarating selection of handsets (which I've religiously upgraded, every year) on the basis that the coverage was good and the bill was detailed.
Apparently, Orange have suddenly realised that there's a drop of their customers' blood that they're not getting, and have decided to start charging for an itemised bill.
Notwithstanding the sheer bloody cheek of asking for even more money on top of the £70ish I pay every month (for the aforementioned sub-par plans on two handsets), I am led to wonder what has suddenly changed. Has laser printer toner suddenly gone up in price? Is there a world shortage of very cheap paper?
As I am a mug, I will probably upgrade my handset yet again and continue to shovel my money into Orange's coffers in exchange for yet more old rope. However, at the earliest opportunity (specifically, when O2 or another provider offer the HTC Prophet handset, AKA the SPV M600) I will be cheerfully ringing up and asking to be put through to Disconnections.
O2 are at least making noises about looking after their existing customers.
Orange are not.
I don't expect an answer to this message, as the only thing Orange is really interested in is my Direct Debit mandate. However, there's an outside chance that someone might read this and realise that attempting to wring every last penny out of your customers might make them seek service elsewhere.
This is in the same way that they promise to price match any other tariff, however when I told them about the new T-Mobile Flex for just £35 per month less 25% for going direct they couldnt match it! So despite being with them for the last 9 years i left and hello T-Mobile! My bills have never been so cheap!
Also they started to charge for 0800 numbers! Why????
Also they started to charge for 0800 numbers! Why????
Noticed my Orange bill had gone up by a few quid the other month. Checked to see what was going on - turns out they've started charging me 1p per message for delivery receipts on texts! 
After ELEVEN years with Orange, I'll be switching at the end of this contract. Their "Internet + Mobile" strategy is, frankly, a joke compared to T-Mobile's Web 'n' Walk (had they ever considered you might want the Internet ON your mobile for the £50+ a month you're easily paying to them!?!?) Not to mention mediocre handsets, mismanaged sales calls (like 1 week AFTER I've done a handset upgrade), and market-lagging price plans. It's all such a shame - I was so proud to be an Orange customer a decade ago...
After ELEVEN years with Orange, I'll be switching at the end of this contract. Their "Internet + Mobile" strategy is, frankly, a joke compared to T-Mobile's Web 'n' Walk (had they ever considered you might want the Internet ON your mobile for the £50+ a month you're easily paying to them!?!?) Not to mention mediocre handsets, mismanaged sales calls (like 1 week AFTER I've done a handset upgrade), and market-lagging price plans. It's all such a shame - I was so proud to be an Orange customer a decade ago...
pcwilson said:
Yep. After 13 years as an Orange business customer, I just moved our 62 numbers to O2, saving over £11K per year in the process. However, we are paying £1.99 per handset per month for itemised billing which we never paid to Orange.
Yeah, but you would have paid it (or something approaching it) as of this month...
CommanderJameson said:
pcwilson said:
Yep. After 13 years as an Orange business customer, I just moved our 62 numbers to O2, saving over £11K per year in the process. However, we are paying £1.99 per handset per month for itemised billing which we never paid to Orange.
Yeah, but you would have paid it (or something approaching it) as of this month...
Good point. That's another £1500 saved over the next 12 months then.
You do know you can SERIOUSLY haggle with Orange disconnections don't you !!??
I told them I was off to 3 and there was nothing they could do about it as the 3 offer was SO good and less than half of what I was currently paying. So the Dsconnections dept beat it..! you have to work fairly hard to get to the disconnecitons dept, but it can pay dividends.
(My current deal is 500 minutes and 100 Texts for £15 a month)
I told them I was off to 3 and there was nothing they could do about it as the 3 offer was SO good and less than half of what I was currently paying. So the Dsconnections dept beat it..! you have to work fairly hard to get to the disconnecitons dept, but it can pay dividends.
(My current deal is 500 minutes and 100 Texts for £15 a month)
A reply! Naturally, I couldn't resist firing one back.
Orange Customer Services said:
Dear CommanderJameson
Thank you for your mail.
I can confirm that Orange has introduced a monthly charge for itemised billing. Orange has decided to charge customers that wish to continue receiving a full paper invoice due to increasing production costs and environmental concerns. The introduction of this charge brings us in line with the majority of other service providers.
If you do not wish to pay this charge, you may wish to view your bill online by registering for online access through 'Your Account' at www.orange.co.uk
Alternatively, if eligible, you may wish to consider changing your Service Plan to a tariff that is exempt from itemisation charges.
I trust this information is of assistance.
Kind regards
Ruth
Orange Customer Services
Thank you for your mail.
CommanderJameson said:
A reply? From a human? Blimey. Wonders will never cease.
I can confirm that Orange has introduced a monthly charge for itemised billing. Orange has decided to charge customers that wish to continue receiving a full paper invoice due to increasing production costs and environmental concerns. The introduction of this charge brings us in line with the majority of other service providers.
CommanderJameson said:
Oh, that's just *peachy*. I'm so glad that for for mere £1.50 a month, you'll continue raping the environment on my behalf. That won't wash. What are these environmental concerns that you're so bothered about that I can override them for a fee? And this brings you in line with other service providers? Way to differentiate yourselves! Why don't I just scuttle across to O2? After all, you're "in line" with them, and T-Mobile, and Vodafone. I joined Orange all those years ago because it seemed at the time that Orange gave a monkey's about their customers. I'm glad to have finally been disavowed of this stupid misconception.
If you do not wish to pay this charge, you may wish to view your bill online by registering for online access through 'Your Account' at www.orange.co.uk
CommanderJameson said:
Here's a brilliant idea: instead of automatically charging people, why don't you do it on an opt-in basis, rather than an opt-out one? After all, I'm laying out £70 a month (and I'm not entirely clear why you didn't just increase the standing charge and avoid all this kerfuffle) - what's another £1.50? I can afford it, it's the flaming cheek of the whole thing that's got my goat.
Alternatively, if eligible, you may wish to consider changing your Service Plan to a tariff that is exempt from itemisation charges.
CommanderJameson said:
And surprise, surprise: you don't tell me which tariffs are exempt from itemisation charges, nor how to do it.
I trust this information is of assistance.
CommanderJameson said:
Not really. Well, that's not quite true. This "information" does confirm my suspicion that the last vestiges of customer-orientation have left Orange. You may have noticed that the tone of this message is somewhat sarcastic, bordering on the unpleasant. Well, charging me for a service that I've had for years and then justifying it with an unctuous "environmental but not really" message is pretty bloody sarcastic, too.
Kind regards
Ruth
Orange Customer Services
Edited by CommanderJameson on Tuesday 11th July 19:51
CommanderJameson said:
A reply! Naturally, I couldn't resist firing one back.
I think you have received a reasonable answer to your rant and can't see what your problem is. You have the option of not paying for an itemised bill and looking it up on the website for free, what's wrong with that?Ribol said:
CommanderJameson said:
A reply! Naturally, I couldn't resist firing one back.
I think you have received a reasonable answer to your rant and can't see what your problem is. You have the option of not paying for an itemised bill and looking it up on the website for free, what's wrong with that?They are charging him for them sending him their itemised invoice. I have always been amazed at how telecomms companies can get away with charging you for sending you their bill.
Its like me selling a server and charging the customer for the invoice. Customers would laugh in my face if I said that 3k for the server and £20 for the invoice. I would imagine most of them would tell me where to stick the invoice, probably in graphic detail.
malman said:
They are charging him for them sending him their itemised invoice. I have always been amazed at how telecomms companies can get away with charging you for sending you their bill.
Its like me selling a server and charging the customer for the invoice. Customers would laugh in my face if I said that 3k for the server and £20 for the invoice. I would imagine most of them would tell me where to stick the invoice, probably in graphic detail.
Its like me selling a server and charging the customer for the invoice. Customers would laugh in my face if I said that 3k for the server and £20 for the invoice. I would imagine most of them would tell me where to stick the invoice, probably in graphic detail.
Not really. They send a vat invoice free, if you want to know in detail what you have been charged for you can look it up on their website. Agreed it's not as convenient as having it in the envelope with the bill but it is hardly a big deal. If it is, then for £18 a year you can save yourself all that trouble.
I have been with Orange from day one, contract, DD payment, I pay no line rental, calls are 15p/5p after 5 mins for rest of day, text 10p - this is not likely to make me feel like I am being treated badly.
Ribol said:
malman said:
They are charging him for them sending him their itemised invoice. I have always been amazed at how telecomms companies can get away with charging you for sending you their bill.
Its like me selling a server and charging the customer for the invoice. Customers would laugh in my face if I said that 3k for the server and £20 for the invoice. I would imagine most of them would tell me where to stick the invoice, probably in graphic detail.
Its like me selling a server and charging the customer for the invoice. Customers would laugh in my face if I said that 3k for the server and £20 for the invoice. I would imagine most of them would tell me where to stick the invoice, probably in graphic detail.
Not really. They send a vat invoice free, if you want to know in detail what you have been charged for you can look it up on their website. Agreed it's not as convenient as having it in the envelope with the bill but it is hardly a big deal. If it is, then for £18 a year you can save yourself all that trouble.
I have been with Orange from day one, contract, DD payment, I pay no line rental, calls are 15p/5p after 5 mins for rest of day, text 10p - this is not likely to make me feel like I am being treated badly.
Fine I'll send a vat invoice free but if you want to know what kit its for thats gonna cost you but by the way thats an opt out thing so I've already added this invoice to your bill
have a nice day - I'm sure that will go down well and I can expect repeat business. Ribol said:
Not really. They send a vat invoice free, if you want to know in detail what you have been charged for you can look it up on their website.
And how would you know they've suddenly started charging for SMS delivery receipts? Or that they charged you 10 times for a call from Mauritania back to the UK that failed to connect at a several £ (failed-)connection charge each time? Or that they were starting charging for the invoices themselves? Or that they were charging you for data usage for downloading an advert they spammed to your phone? Or a dozen other shocking practices over the last couple of years. I can understand the difference between VAT invoice and itemised bill being the cost of paper + toner (assuming laser printing). So, 2p a sheet. So, 5p on an average bill. £1.50?!?!? And claiming it's for environmental reasons?!?!?!!??!?! Does that £1.50 go to planting new trees? Thought not.
Would you accept your credit card statement from your bank saying "you owe us £1,800 this month. If you want to know what for, it'll cost you £1.50. Or you can jump through hoops to sign up for a flakey online service that's regularly unavailable"?
The bottom line is Orange want to increase our bills by £1.50 a month. Now, you can either pay it and shut up or go elsewhere if you don't like it. You can moan as much as you like but this is not one of those situations where it is going to make the slightest difference, they are a massive company and will not give a sh1t whether the OP stays or goes - it has been decided upstairs.
Personally, I cannot do any better than I currently am with Orange on my mobile(see tariff I am on) so I will carry on regardless. Would I get into a big saga over an £18 a year optional increase, no, I would spend that time looking at other things I do financially and put that time to better use.
Personally, I cannot do any better than I currently am with Orange on my mobile(see tariff I am on) so I will carry on regardless. Would I get into a big saga over an £18 a year optional increase, no, I would spend that time looking at other things I do financially and put that time to better use.
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