Depreciation proof vehicles
Discussion
Gentlemen,
I got into a conversation yesterday about car depreciation, and what was the best(relatively modern) model to buy if you want to keep this to a minimum. The feeling was that a £15000 3.2 Carrera was a pretty good bet, and although I sold my last one 9 years ago it has pretty much maintained its price ever since. Two others I'd toss into the ring would be the 964 & 993 RS. The key is long-term residuals rather than short-term premiums (F430). At the higher end I would assume 993GT2, 959, Ltd edition Ferraris and the Ford GT to be a reasonable bet. I'd be interested to hear your views.
I got into a conversation yesterday about car depreciation, and what was the best(relatively modern) model to buy if you want to keep this to a minimum. The feeling was that a £15000 3.2 Carrera was a pretty good bet, and although I sold my last one 9 years ago it has pretty much maintained its price ever since. Two others I'd toss into the ring would be the 964 & 993 RS. The key is long-term residuals rather than short-term premiums (F430). At the higher end I would assume 993GT2, 959, Ltd edition Ferraris and the Ford GT to be a reasonable bet. I'd be interested to hear your views.
There are Porsches that you can use and enjoy without worrying too much about depreciation, but they tend to be the earlier models, so require more attention and have potentially higher running costs.
Late, original, low mileage G50 Carrera 3.2 Coupes are sought after, but the best ones are nearer £20k.
Those with the potential to be a safe buy include some of the best pre-73 cars up to 2.4E/Ss and of course 2.7RS, 911CS, 968CS, 964RS, 993RS, 993GT2 etc. Basically the limited production, lightweight, driver focussed examples.
Of course, the whole market would collapse in the event of a severe economic down turn or a long term oil crisis.
Can't speak for Ferraris, but the new models seem to hold their value for a brief period, then drop heavily. Mileage seems to be an issue and running costs can be painful.
Late, original, low mileage G50 Carrera 3.2 Coupes are sought after, but the best ones are nearer £20k.
Those with the potential to be a safe buy include some of the best pre-73 cars up to 2.4E/Ss and of course 2.7RS, 911CS, 968CS, 964RS, 993RS, 993GT2 etc. Basically the limited production, lightweight, driver focussed examples.
Of course, the whole market would collapse in the event of a severe economic down turn or a long term oil crisis.
Can't speak for Ferraris, but the new models seem to hold their value for a brief period, then drop heavily. Mileage seems to be an issue and running costs can be painful.
nervous said:
is it April the 1st already? man, i should cut back on the Nytol.
LMFAO.
Why not just stuff it under a mattress!!
Honestly, no such thing. Look at the "Peppermint Pig" 964RS which one of the writers bought as a depreciation proof certainty. It just lunched its engine by snapping
its crank and catching fire. There is no such thing as a cheap 911.
Quite a few lovely 964's about that have relatively recently had their expensive engine-out spanner tickle, priced in the low teens, and IMO ridiculous bargains for a modern aircooled 911 with 170mph, ABS, auto spoiler and 4wd option..I can't see good ones EVER going under 10. (Please, nooooo!)
That crank snap is just weird, and something I've never heard of before in 4 years of 964 ownership.
RS's are nice, but a bit harsh, still relatively expensive (and often thraped for a living).
That crank snap is just weird, and something I've never heard of before in 4 years of 964 ownership.
RS's are nice, but a bit harsh, still relatively expensive (and often thraped for a living).
An F40 should be bulletproof. They made too many of these cars (1200), but they've gone up over the last few years from circa 150 to (for the best ones) nearer and in some cases over 200k. Enzos will hurt when the F60 comes out, and no one wants an F50 anwyay (though they're pretty static).
Not so sure on Porsches. At some level the Carrera GT will be good value, prob when it comes down to around 200k. Porsche haven't done much for this model after not offering warranties, so it'll fall to a level that makes it relatively cheap. A good 959 is ok long term, but v v limited market as its not a classic in the F40 mould
Not so sure on Porsches. At some level the Carrera GT will be good value, prob when it comes down to around 200k. Porsche haven't done much for this model after not offering warranties, so it'll fall to a level that makes it relatively cheap. A good 959 is ok long term, but v v limited market as its not a classic in the F40 mould
Vesuvius 996 said:
There is no such thing as a cheap 911.
But you can make money on them - made money on every single one I have owned in terms of original price paid and future sale price - and all have been driven like they were built to be! - its just a matter of buying the right model or finding a bargain!
Would rather have the car than the shares though.....
ceven47 said:
thought enzo was an f60? i stand to be corrected.
According to the DP at the Ferrari dealership I buy from, the "F60" will be out within a couple of years. Clarkson's always called the Enzo an F60... who knows.
Naming convention wise the F40 was a 40th anniversary car that came out in 1987, then the F50 in 1995, so they're not exactly sticking to the 10 years.....
And I'd rather have an F50 than an Enzo, purely cos you can take the roof off 
On depreciation, there is no way you can ever be certain... just buy a widely accepted good solid car that has done most of its "new price" depreciation and hope for the best (or the least loss). That's why i went for a late 3.2 Carrera, not to avoid depreciation, but hopefully not lose too much.
On depreciation, there is no way you can ever be certain... just buy a widely accepted good solid car that has done most of its "new price" depreciation and hope for the best (or the least loss). That's why i went for a late 3.2 Carrera, not to avoid depreciation, but hopefully not lose too much.
I'm as guilty as everyone else but don't you think it's a bit weird how we all worry about depreciation? I mean I've recently spent £thousands on new hi-fi,tv etc not to mention forking out for fitted carpets, curtains etc. etc. and most of those things are pretty much valueless the day you buy them but I didn't give depreciation a second thought. Goodness knows how much I've spent on fine wines, malts and not so fine beers etc and once they're drunk they're gone. Same with holidays. And that flash suit isn't worth much once you've walked out of Paul Smith's or where ever. Shouln't we just enjoy our cars and stop worrying - and sleep at night knowing we've saved another poor car dealer from starvation!
Edited by pugsey on Friday 14th July 11:23
The problem is that for years the market and running costs of older Porsche's has remained fairly stable and predictable.
3.2 Carerra's, 944's etc held about the same prices year after year and running costs were reasonable. But now they have aged to a point where 3.2's are rusting away inside under the rear suspension areas, front top inner wings etc and proving expensive to repair, engine shields are rusting away and rings are getting worn out - so huge expense is iminent for many. Yes prices for the ones that have been fixed remain high but then the 993 is so much better (and last of the same era) that many 3.2 owners are upgrading to them - putting more 3.2's on the market.
944's are beginning to suffer sill rust, fuel and brake line, interior door panels and more engine/gearbox work etc - so even they are starting to cost more in maintenance.
Previously this was a modest cost if the car didn't also depreciate - and the work could therefore be justified - but the greater number of used Porsche's available for sale (remember every single year that goes by a few more thousand come on to the market and they all get a year older and fall more into the same lower price bracket) increases the choice and therefore prices will now fall and less popular models will suffer most.
It seems likely that anything but the most desireable models and specifications, colours etc will depreciate as well and that extra cost makes the purchase of a newer Boxster (in that price bracket) become more attractive - but in so doing everyone who sells their 3.2 or 944 to buy a Boxster - puts even more 3.2's and 944's on the market and again - too many cars for sale - prices fall.
Then next year and the year after 2 more years production of Boxsters fall down into the same price bracket and 996's start to follow suit - there are then 3 times as many Boxsters in that market - you get the picture.
So with garage prices increasing by more than inflation and repair costs escalating - and older Porsche's unlikely to be depreciation proof any more - there should be a corresponding move up market as Porsche continue to increase model range and sales volumes at the new end feeding an ever growing conveyor belt of used Porsche cars.
The same of course is happening to all older cars of different makes and there is a limited market for classic cars - so time must eventually flood the market everywhere.
Of course I may not know what I am talking about - but I think only the oldest Porsche's, most unusual models (low volumes) or best examples will remain attractive and many previously esteemed examples will dissapear.
All other ideas and opinions welcome - however much they dissagree with me!
Baz Hartech
So for the first time in years the whole issue of older Porsche ownership takes on a different perspective than it has for several years and those unaware of this could easily get caught out.
3.2 Carerra's, 944's etc held about the same prices year after year and running costs were reasonable. But now they have aged to a point where 3.2's are rusting away inside under the rear suspension areas, front top inner wings etc and proving expensive to repair, engine shields are rusting away and rings are getting worn out - so huge expense is iminent for many. Yes prices for the ones that have been fixed remain high but then the 993 is so much better (and last of the same era) that many 3.2 owners are upgrading to them - putting more 3.2's on the market.
944's are beginning to suffer sill rust, fuel and brake line, interior door panels and more engine/gearbox work etc - so even they are starting to cost more in maintenance.
Previously this was a modest cost if the car didn't also depreciate - and the work could therefore be justified - but the greater number of used Porsche's available for sale (remember every single year that goes by a few more thousand come on to the market and they all get a year older and fall more into the same lower price bracket) increases the choice and therefore prices will now fall and less popular models will suffer most.
It seems likely that anything but the most desireable models and specifications, colours etc will depreciate as well and that extra cost makes the purchase of a newer Boxster (in that price bracket) become more attractive - but in so doing everyone who sells their 3.2 or 944 to buy a Boxster - puts even more 3.2's and 944's on the market and again - too many cars for sale - prices fall.
Then next year and the year after 2 more years production of Boxsters fall down into the same price bracket and 996's start to follow suit - there are then 3 times as many Boxsters in that market - you get the picture.
So with garage prices increasing by more than inflation and repair costs escalating - and older Porsche's unlikely to be depreciation proof any more - there should be a corresponding move up market as Porsche continue to increase model range and sales volumes at the new end feeding an ever growing conveyor belt of used Porsche cars.
The same of course is happening to all older cars of different makes and there is a limited market for classic cars - so time must eventually flood the market everywhere.
Of course I may not know what I am talking about - but I think only the oldest Porsche's, most unusual models (low volumes) or best examples will remain attractive and many previously esteemed examples will dissapear.
All other ideas and opinions welcome - however much they dissagree with me!
Baz Hartech
So for the first time in years the whole issue of older Porsche ownership takes on a different perspective than it has for several years and those unaware of this could easily get caught out.
pugsey said:
And that flash suit isn't worth much once you've walked out of Paul Smith's
Oi leave my suits alone!
Actually I don't possess a single suit, never have, jolly uncomfortable things (whenever I've rented one for the CCJ appearances 
) I don't worry about depreciation, I never have, and that's possibly because every car I've ever bought is because that's what I wanted right then and never ever intended to sell it. It's the same with my current 944s, I've owned one over 8 years and it costs me more and more each year to maintain (just like Barry said) but I love it to bits and it's worth it. I simply don't understand people who buy a car and are already worrying about their next???? That is consumerism, peer pressure and marketing gone mad.
Getting back to the original topic, I think an older Porsche is actually still a depreciation beater. My S2 cost me £12k eight years ago and even if it's only worth £6k now it's only lost £750 a year. Even when you add up the £1k a year maintenance it doesn't exactly break the bank. A really good 3.2 Carrera or 964 has not much further to go now they are in the £10-£20k bracket. At some point all the good cars will bottom out, and the crud cars will be scrapped, at that point a desirable car will not devalue any more
Porsches are fantastic, sod the depreciation (or any cost for that matter) just go out and have fun in them, that's why we bought them wasn't it?
Baz Hartech gives a very considered and accurate analysis of the market. You'd make a very successful trader on that basis !!!!! Incidently the rust issues you've described on the 3.2's have been there for a number of years. What my look pristene may be a nightmare underneath, buyers beware.
There's been a fair amount of positive media for s/h 993's in this regard (mainly GT & anything Mr C Harris writes). I'm inclined to think that something like £23k would be safe as houses for a while if spent on the right car? Opinions? (Its one of the few vehicles I'm considering replacing the NSX with)...
Yeah , unfortunately you're probably right on the money , Baz.
My dream would be a double garage, with a modern , madly depreciating 911 , and then something for the dog days ..A '75-76-ish non depreciating model, but in reality it looks like even if it's not going lead balloon-like, huge sums of money in upkeep would more than make up for that.... Or am I being too pessimistic??
My dream would be a double garage, with a modern , madly depreciating 911 , and then something for the dog days ..A '75-76-ish non depreciating model, but in reality it looks like even if it's not going lead balloon-like, huge sums of money in upkeep would more than make up for that.... Or am I being too pessimistic??
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