At what point is a car a "Van"?
Discussion
As I have a small fleet of vans and have run a commercial vehicle as my "Company" car for a few years I would rather keep on avoiding as much car tax as possible.
With this in mind as well as the Kit I fancy building a "Q" car for fun and trackdays, question is this...
If I bought a new Clio 172 Cup unregistered and converted it to a van (very simple job) and then went to register it, would the DVLA accept the fact that it is now a van and allow the reclaim of VAT, and the subsequent paymant of commercial vehicle car tax?
I think a chipped tuned Clio van badged as a diesel would be a hoot at trackdays.
Nick
With this in mind as well as the Kit I fancy building a "Q" car for fun and trackdays, question is this...
If I bought a new Clio 172 Cup unregistered and converted it to a van (very simple job) and then went to register it, would the DVLA accept the fact that it is now a van and allow the reclaim of VAT, and the subsequent paymant of commercial vehicle car tax?
I think a chipped tuned Clio van badged as a diesel would be a hoot at trackdays.
Nick
sparks said: Wouldn't it be better to get an old (nackered) diesel van, and
uprate brakes,
uprate suspension,
drop in tuned engine
Even more of a 'Q' car!
:getscoatandlegsit:
Sparks
Normally, yes. However I want it to look like a fleet van and as such would be a lot easier to explain if new!
Nick
>> Edited by Aprisa on Monday 10th February 11:11
I agree with sparks.
Thinking from a cost point of view, a clio cup costs about £12,000 inc VAT, getting it converted (whatever this might take, removal of rear side windows removal of interior trim and replacing with de-rigur wooden panels??) would obviously cost at least something. Why not buy something like an old escort van (mk v) and then drop into it a tuned zetec unit? Total cost must be only half that of the new car converted to a van route??
There have been some very serious van conversions done, most notably the Ford supervan which ran a transit body over a modified benneton formula 1 chassis complete with V8 F1 engine and carbon brakes!!
Thinking from a cost point of view, a clio cup costs about £12,000 inc VAT, getting it converted (whatever this might take, removal of rear side windows removal of interior trim and replacing with de-rigur wooden panels??) would obviously cost at least something. Why not buy something like an old escort van (mk v) and then drop into it a tuned zetec unit? Total cost must be only half that of the new car converted to a van route??
There have been some very serious van conversions done, most notably the Ford supervan which ran a transit body over a modified benneton formula 1 chassis complete with V8 F1 engine and carbon brakes!!
The general rule of thunb that used to be applied was that it's a car if it can be converted back to being a car "overnight" in other words that old scam of taking out the back seats and putting those clip on plastic panels on the rear windows won't wash. However the official inland revenue policy now days is that each case MAY be looked at individually and assessed as such. This is in order that they can close the loop hole of directors driving around in King Cab pick up's with DVD's for the kids in the back and a hard top for the dog that have never carried any thing bulkier than the weekly run to Waitrose, they basically now ask is it being used as a van would normally be expected to be used i.e. deliveries, and commercial transport of goods or is it being used as a car i.e going shopping, dropping the kids off, seeing clients, and I guess track days !!!! my guess is that if you did this and it ever got looked at they'd say bollox it's a car now pay the tax you dodging git 
You'd need a very brave or foolish accountant to say go for it. Having said that as you've got an identifiable history of running a van you may be ok, it's the buggers that chop in an Audi for an Hilux that get clobbered.
You'd need a very brave or foolish accountant to say go for it. Having said that as you've got an identifiable history of running a van you may be ok, it's the buggers that chop in an Audi for an Hilux that get clobbered. Asked Mrs Gopher (VAT Consultant) and she comes up with this (don't know from where but probably a big thick book)
What are the VAT rules on constructing a car kit?
If you construct a car from a kit or from separately purchased new parts, you can recover the VAT charged. However, if you sell the finished car, you must account for VAT on the full selling price in the normal way. If you use the finished car in your business for a purpose that would qualify for input tax recovery you must account for VAT on the self-supply in the normal way.
err, hope that makes sense to you, although I'm not sure it answers the original question (she's good like that
)
Cheers
Paul
What are the VAT rules on constructing a car kit?
If you construct a car from a kit or from separately purchased new parts, you can recover the VAT charged. However, if you sell the finished car, you must account for VAT on the full selling price in the normal way. If you use the finished car in your business for a purpose that would qualify for input tax recovery you must account for VAT on the self-supply in the normal way.
err, hope that makes sense to you, although I'm not sure it answers the original question (she's good like that
) Cheers
Paul
mel said: The general rule of thunb that used to be applied was that it's a car if it can be converted back to being a car "overnight" in other words that old scam of taking out the back seats and putting those clip on plastic panels on the rear windows won't wash. However the official inland revenue policy now days is that each case MAY be looked at individually and assessed as such. This is in order that they can close the loop hole of directors driving around in King Cab pick up's with DVD's for the kids in the back and a hard top for the dog that have never carried any thing bulkier than the weekly run to Waitrose, they basically now ask is it being used as a van would normally be expected to be used i.e. deliveries, and commercial transport of goods or is it being used as a car i.e going shopping, dropping the kids off, seeing clients, and I guess track days !!!! my guess is that if you did this and it ever got looked at they'd say bollox it's a car now pay the tax you dodging git
mel you dont know me do you
Pulled a similar stunt with my blazer when it was owned by the company
had it converted into a van (back seat removed and windows pannelled/tinted out) receipt to prove it went through the accounts Of course I stored the back seat in my garage to be re-fitted as and when required
never had any problems/questions.
you must have quite a tailor Playing fast and loose with Inland Revenue rules and regulations is much easier now compared to the past. Since the introduction of Self Assessment for both individuals and companies, deciding into what category an item of expenditure falls is ENTIRELY the respnsibility of the individual or company. Congratulating yourself on pulling the wool over the Inspector of Taxes may be premature. Under Self Assessment regulations, most accounts and tax reurns will be "processed" by the Revenue without comment. The days of the Revenue actually "agreeing" annual figures are now gone. If they chose to open an enquiry into a Self Assessment tax return or a Corporation Tax return, dubious "clever dodges" perpetrated by the proprietor of the business or his accountant may fall out of the woodwork. The Revenue have extensive powers to go back quite a few years once they are satisfied that something untoward has been going on so if the subterfuge has been going on a number of years, it could work out expensive. They would want to collect the underpaid tax for the relevant years plus interest plus surcharges plus penalties.
Thanks for all that chaps, looks like I should be Ok, the main reason for a New Clio was that I already run six others and by the time you've got the VAT back and depreciated it 25% in the first year, its gets close to building one, plus its easier to show and explain one receipt rather than 50 different ones from "Demon Tweaks" (thinks about all those in the bottom drawer from the Kit!!!)
The ZR Van sounds a laugh, other advantage of car into van over converting a van is the already existing car rear suspension which in some vans is a little crude!
Mel - Already doing the 4 Door Pickup thing but it does do a few jobs each year "Honest Guv" and it says we operate 4WD vehicles on our hold music so it must be true
Nick
The ZR Van sounds a laugh, other advantage of car into van over converting a van is the already existing car rear suspension which in some vans is a little crude!
Mel - Already doing the 4 Door Pickup thing but it does do a few jobs each year "Honest Guv" and it says we operate 4WD vehicles on our hold music so it must be true
Nick
[dodgey geezer mode]
Nah you want a Bedford Astramax, I think everybody's been passed by one of these doing 126 down the motorway... true a standard astramax couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding, but with a rotton exhaust, bald tyres and no air filter its transformed into a true TVR beating machine
Nothing really to look out for when buying one, just buy the first one you see (thats what everyone else does) but make sure it uses at least a litre of oil every few days and the exhast smoke is a nice blue colour. optional extras include faded sign writing and a copy of the SUN on the dash. and for a extra touch of class stick a "tax in post" note in the window.
(oh you could also buy the "Mungo" special addition that came fully equipped with a mattress in the back, guaranteed to pull the ladeez)
[/dodgey geezer mode]
Nah you want a Bedford Astramax, I think everybody's been passed by one of these doing 126 down the motorway... true a standard astramax couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding, but with a rotton exhaust, bald tyres and no air filter its transformed into a true TVR beating machine
Nothing really to look out for when buying one, just buy the first one you see (thats what everyone else does) but make sure it uses at least a litre of oil every few days and the exhast smoke is a nice blue colour. optional extras include faded sign writing and a copy of the SUN on the dash. and for a extra touch of class stick a "tax in post" note in the window.
(oh you could also buy the "Mungo" special addition that came fully equipped with a mattress in the back, guaranteed to pull the ladeez
) [/dodgey geezer mode]
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