Broken Engine on "new" 450, please help...

[filos hippos]

Okay, here we go... :

FIRST: some history

I've been wanting a TVR since I was a small kid,

Now at the age of 33, after a few trips to the UK, I finally got my first TVR. It is a silver LHD Chimaera 450, year 2003. One of the last ones imported to Europe I suppose, with the flaired-in headlamps and the (black leather) cerbera seats. Looks rather nice in my opinion.

SECOND: Bad news

I bought the car privately in Germany with only 10.500 KM on the clock. The car was in a virtually new condition.
It came with a custom built radiator and wrapped exhaust manifolds... When I asked the previous owner why this work had been done, he told me it was because the engine heated up "a little"... At the moment, he told me, the car is at the dealer to fix this problem ( it needed new headgaskets because an emission test showed there was water in the exhaust-gasses, I was told)

When talking to the dealer, he told me the same story and confirmed the car was in excellent condition, in fact even better then new...

When the work on the car was done, I drove to Germany, inspected the car, did some test-driving, paid for it and drove it home with no problem whatsoever..

A few days later I noticed the engine temp went above 90°, after checking the waterlevel(was a bit low in the header tank) I topped it up, bleeded it properly and continued enjoing my new wheels.

Meanwhile however, the car is back at the dealer in Germany because the waterlevel kept coming down, and I could not find any leaks. It appears, after some small check-ups by the dealer, that there is still exhaust gasses in the watercircuit, ...

The dealer took off the cylinderheads again to check on the headgaskets and they seem fine.

He told me that the next step would be to have the heads (or block) checked by some company and that the engine should go to TVR power to have a rebuild...

When talking to the dealer in Belgium (where I'm from) he says it is most likely that the block is porous, not the heads... And, that I would need to have the cylinder lining ( I'm not sure that's proper English) renewed or find/buy a new block.

THIRD: What should I do?

a) have the rebuild at TVR power... (car probably away for the entire summerholidays...)

b) find a swap engine in good condition ( 450 or 500 or better ) anyone got one???

c) have a rebuild in belgium by Marc Minne

d) other option ...


Thanks for reading this topic through and for helping me out here...


Cheers,

Filip

[brummiewedge]

You can have the block pressure tested to confirm if it is water tight or not. Unfortunately it is not uncommon. A place in Coventry in the midlands called Chesmonds did mine before i built the engine ( i used a 2001 Disco motor for my base.) I infact used a crank out of a 4.6 engine that had 3 porous liners. You can have them relined, Tophat liners is the mod. There must be somewhere in Belgium that could do this??

[filos hippos]

After speaking to some pro's, it is bound to be a problem with the cylinder lining apparently.

Where is best/cheapest place to get it fixed?

I would consider to have all 8 reconditionned...

Thanks for your replies

[brummiewedge]

£150 a pot. Get a late block, pressure test it and rebuild.

[jamesatherton]

There is a 500 engine in the classifieds which you could use as a swap engine. www.pistonheads.com/sales/84742.htm .

[hughesieII]

I'd rather pay to have new top hat liners fitted, you never know what sort oflife the donor engines had...

[Boosted LS1]

Get a proper diagnosis first by pressure testing it. Then if it's not to bad try a radseal type addative to the water and see if that fixes the problem. For all you know it could be a dodgy head gasket and not a porous block. I'd also try composite gaskets and use ARP head studs for proper clamping.

If it's the block then this is an opportunity to increase capacity and V8 Developments are the chaps to speak to about this.

Boosted.

[Ballistic Banana]

Quinny said:

Are you sure the water in the header tank isn't just finding it's natural level?

On my Griff for example, if I fill the tank, water will escape from the cap until the level is about 6 to 8 cm below the full level.

It then stays there, and I never have to top up, but if I were to top up it would be at the lower level again within a couple of days. Giving the impression its losing water.

Agree totally with Quinny, Its a common thing. Mine sits around the seam of the header tank. Fill it up anymore and it just spits it out over the cap when pressurised.

I also wouldnt 100% really on the guage, have you checked the thermostate...otter switch are working ok.

Steve Heath does a coolant pressure tester ata good price that may HERE

BB

[pupp]

Another note of caution here too... mine has a recent 4.6 built with top-hat liners and I also get coolant dropping over time, which I think is evaporating from the sytem rather than finding it's way into parts of the motor where it shouldn't.

[filos hippos]

Thanks for your replies...

I do fear however it is not just the water "finding it's level" as I have to fill up to 2 liters of coolant after +/- 300KM.

I will try to add this radseal addative, would be great if this solves the problem!!!



I have had a quote from V8developments for a 5.0, a 5.2 and a 5.5 (!!!)

Anyone familiar with the power versus consumption ratio of the 5.5 ??

They quoted 4.750pounds for the rebuild of the 5.5 (turnaround of my engine) but that does not include the modifications of the injection system.

[GreenV8S]

filos hippos said:

I will try to add this radseal addative, would be great if this solves the problem!!!

Um ...

I'd treat that as a last resort if I were you. You don't want that stuff blocking up your cooling system if you can help it. Have you have a cooling system leak test done, or an HC test, or a cylinder leakdown test? These would all help to establish whether the cooling system had an internal or external leak.

[filos hippos]

GreenV8S said:

filos hippos said:

I will try to add this radseal addative, would be great if this solves the problem!!!

Um ...

I'd treat that as a last resort if I were you. You don't want that stuff blocking up your cooling system if you can help it. Have you have a cooling system leak test done, or an HC test, or a cylinder leakdown test? These would all help to establish whether the cooling system had an internal or external leak.

Can I do some of these test myself? What tools would one need?

[GreenV8S]

filos hippos said:

Can I do some of these test myself? What tools would one need?

The leakdown test requires some inexpensive equipment that can be bought from any decent tool shop. Basically you take off the pressure cap, fit a modified cap which has a pressure gauge and one way valve in it, and use a bike pump to pressurise the system. If it holds pressure you don't have a leak. (You need to test it hot and cold, because some leaks are temperature sensitive.)

A coolant hydrocarbon test is done by running the engine with the pressure cap off and sucking the fumes from the opening into a syringe with a solution in which changes colour when hydrocarbons are present. If it changes colour you have a leak between the water jacket and the combustion chamber - i.e. a blown head gasket, porus cylinder head, cracked block, shifted liner etc.

A leakdown test requires slightly more expensive equipment, and an air line. Essentially you shove a carefully calibrated amount of compressed air into the spark plug hole and read how much pressure you get inside the combustion chamber. The more leakage you have, the lower the pressure. This is also handy as a way of telling *where* the leaks are, because you can tell whether it's going ito the coolant, into the sump, up past the valves etc. This last test is something you'd probably want to get a professional to do. The others you can easily do yourself.