Discussion
Thats more like motor racing should be. Bits of contact here and there, close racing, no backing out and jacobs of steel.
To anybody that knows better than me:
The last corner overtaking move on the last lap of the last race by Matt Neal (all four wheels off track inside corner).
Will this result stand?
I hope so, if not the spectacle will be reduced but I feel for Plato. Whilst he is probably the most aggresive driver in the series, I've not seen him go off track to cut a corner to gain an advantage.
A real pleasure to the senses following the parade of F1, especially after shouting at the screen for over 15 laps that Alonso was fuelled to the end something that was clearly seen on the screen (time of fueling) by all but James Allen. Surely more of a James Blunt than the singer can ever be.
To anybody that knows better than me:
The last corner overtaking move on the last lap of the last race by Matt Neal (all four wheels off track inside corner).
Will this result stand?
I hope so, if not the spectacle will be reduced but I feel for Plato. Whilst he is probably the most aggresive driver in the series, I've not seen him go off track to cut a corner to gain an advantage.
A real pleasure to the senses following the parade of F1, especially after shouting at the screen for over 15 laps that Alonso was fuelled to the end something that was clearly seen on the screen (time of fueling) by all but James Allen. Surely more of a James Blunt than the singer can ever be.
Stubby Pete said:
The last corner overtaking move on the last lap of the last race by Matt Neal (all four wheels off track inside corner).
Will this result stand?
No.
www.crash.net/news_View~t~Neal-loses-race-three-podium-~cid~10~id~133891.htm
I've held back from commenting on this until I'd actually watched. Now I've seen it, I can see no problem with Neal's last-lap manoeuvre - he had all four wheels off the circuit, he gained advantage, he was righty penalised.
The usual lousy BTCC driving standards were very much in evidence. Close racing without contact IS possible......
The usual lousy BTCC driving standards were very much in evidence. Close racing without contact IS possible......
I think I'm qualified to comment on this!!
Matt Neals move was clearly gaining an advantage, and thats exactly what I thought when he did it, I was surprised that the decission took so long to make.
The race track is defined by the white lines at the edge of the track, any competitor putting 4 wheels over and gaining an advantage, i.e. making up a place, will be reported for the mentioned advantage.
The penalty given was right for the crime!
Matt Neals move was clearly gaining an advantage, and thats exactly what I thought when he did it, I was surprised that the decission took so long to make.
The race track is defined by the white lines at the edge of the track, any competitor putting 4 wheels over and gaining an advantage, i.e. making up a place, will be reported for the mentioned advantage.
The penalty given was right for the crime!
jacobyte said:
I am very suprised that Matt Neal still has a licence.
I have no idea what you mean
Relax chaps, it was actually an enjoyable day and nice to see 20 cars on the grid. Maybe there is a bit too much bumping & barging but it brings in the TV money.
At least it's not sterile processional "racing" as per F1.
monkeyhanger said:
Maybe there is a bit too much bumping & barging
Ten out of ten for understatement. Of course contact will happen in motor sport, but there's a big difference between accidental contact & what is condoned, even encouraged, in BTCC. The problem with that is that drivers coming into club racing think that, because they've seen it on telly, it's acceptable. How can clubs & championships stop illegal, dangerous driving with such an example being shown at the 'top level' of the sport?
Good television? Maybe, but those of us who have to pick up the pieces when some young kid in a clubbie tries to emulate his heroes see it differently.
Dave Brand said:
monkeyhanger said:
Maybe there is a bit too much bumping & barging
Ten out of ten for understatement. Of course contact will happen in motor sport, but there's a big difference between accidental contact & what is condoned, even encouraged, in BTCC. The problem with that is that drivers coming into club racing think that, because they've seen it on telly, it's acceptable. How can clubs & championships stop illegal, dangerous driving with such an example being shown at the 'top level' of the sport?
Good television? Maybe, but those of us who have to pick up the pieces when some young kid in a clubbie tries to emulate his heroes see it differently.
See the amount of body damage in the 750 Motor Club Saxmax championship for a good case in point. Its equivalent to a kid watching football in the Premiership and seeing the diving/shirt pulling/abuse of referees and copying it on a Sunday in the local park. Something nobody can condone.
CLose racing WITHOUT contact isn't possible. They're not robots, having said that, I would certainly agree with the club racer comment, but I can't help noticing it's the old hands (Plato, Neal, Muller) who have always been most guilty of 'smash and grab'. You don't see Tom Chilton barging his way through the pack, and T-Cars, Coopers and Clio Cup have all been very clean this year - perhaps we're underestimating the level-headedness of the upstarts!
MrKipling43 said:
CLose racing WITHOUT contact isn't possible.
A very large percentage of the hundreds of races I see every year suggests otherwise. I wouldn't for a moment suggest that accidental contact will not occur from time to time; deliberate contact with the intention of gaining advantage is unnecessary & dangerous.
MrKipling43 said:
CLose racing WITHOUT contact isn't possible.
Pick any open wheel series and I think you'll find that although some contact does occur, it's nowhere near the level of BTCC. If the stewards of the meeting were tougher, perhaps we'd get some real racing instead of dodgems. MotoGP is an even better example - You risk crashing via contact, so it's pretty rare. However, if drivers are allowed to overtake via contact and they don't get penalised, who's at fault? - The race officials need to set a standard that the drivers clearly understand.
djmotorsport said:
However, if drivers are allowed to overtake via contact and they don't get penalised, who's at fault? - The race officials need to set a standard that the drivers clearly understand.
Sadly, in BTCC, they do set a standard that the drivers clearly understand - you can see it at every meeting!
By the way, it's the Clerks of the Course who are initially responsible for enforcing standards. The stewards don't take any part in the running of the meeting - think of them as a sort of 'court of appeal'.
From a drivers point of view I'd say that it is very possible to have amazingly close racing without contact, although you'll always get the odd crazy move down the inside of you usually out of frustration. Generally speaking most club racers love there cars and cant afford to keep repairing them and so give way if not at least level with the person they are trying to pass, and the driver being passed also tends not to turn in on you if your making a move on him and you right up on him.
Perhaps they should take the cost of repairing the BTCC cars out of the drivers wallets then see if BTCC gets any cleaner?
Perhaps they should take the cost of repairing the BTCC cars out of the drivers wallets then see if BTCC gets any cleaner?
have raced in the 750 mc hot hatch this year & yes the sax max & stock hatch have been very entertaining to watch : after a double header at pembrey most of the sax max cars had a fair bit of bodywork re-arrangment & at cadwell the stock hatch had a proper pile up at the mountain blocking the track !
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