Discussion
As with anything on the Ultima, you can fit pretty much whatever you want. Most people who build a road car are perfectly happy to go for the H pattern Porsche G50 or Getrag. However, if you want to go for a sequentian box, you could talk to Hewland or Quaife. I know that they both have sequential options that would fit the Ultima and take the torque of the typical engine specs.
The best port of call is to call Ted at the factory. I'm sure that he'll be eble to point you in the right direction. However, if you're building the car for the road, there's no reason to go for anything but the normal options. A sequential box will just make the car cost a lot more to build
James
The best port of call is to call Ted at the factory. I'm sure that he'll be eble to point you in the right direction. However, if you're building the car for the road, there's no reason to go for anything but the normal options. A sequential box will just make the car cost a lot more to build
James
I talked to someone from Quaife at the autosport show. They have a new sequential box that he believed would be good for an ultima. It was about £10K. I can't remember the torque/power rating but I think it was good for about 400 ft/lbs. They do have a box for larger torque requirements but I got the impression that this was older and more expensive
I would love one but can't justify it because the G50 works fine !
I would love one but can't justify it because the G50 works fine !
Found an offer from Cartronic for a sequential gearshift that may be interesting for those of us who are using the cable operated Getrag box. I didn`t ask for further informations as I have a G50.
www.cartronic-motorsport.de/por_sequ.html
www.cartronic-motorsport.de/por_sequ.html
Be careful with the sequential gearboxes if you´re going to use it out of racetrack. They commonly works with straighcut gears and no syncs. The noise is horrible if you drive without helmet (I have had one in my Gp.A BMW M3). I was talking to Colin Blower Motorsport about the Quaife sequential and it seems they was experiencing many problems after each race.Isn't there a difference between additional mechanism to change gears sequentially with clutch being sync'ed to shift AND a complete sequential box, straight cut gears etc?
I think the one(s) with the complicated mechanism is the former whereas Colin Blower used the latter.
Must be two types otherwise all sequentials sold on roadd cars thus far must be very noisy and would be unacceptable from that point of view never mind unpleasant experience to drive.
I think the one(s) with the complicated mechanism is the former whereas Colin Blower used the latter.
Must be two types otherwise all sequentials sold on roadd cars thus far must be very noisy and would be unacceptable from that point of view never mind unpleasant experience to drive.
james said: I've never seen a road car with a sequential shift. I've seen loads with a semi-auto box and a sequential style shift lever, but they aren't anything like manual sequential boxes.
If you opt for the sequential manual gearbox (SMG)
available for the 2002 BMW M3. It adds state-of-the-art racing technology to the benchmark sports sedan. While not inexpensive at $2,400, the SMG is about half the price of a similar unit offered in previous generation M3s in Europe only. The gearbox is the same
six-speed Getrag as is found in the regular M3, but with Formula One-inspired electronic-hydraulic control via paddles mounted behind the steering wheel and/or a lever on the center console. Unlike the systems found in racing cars, the M3's has several manual and automatic modes, for use in varying conditions.
So I don't understand the difference. This is not a dog box, nor a semi-automatic, so what is your definition of a manual sequential box?
>> Edited by canam-phil on Friday 14th February 14:11
The M3, Ferrari, and a MR2 toyota (believe it or not) all have non-torque converter dry clutch sequential systems. These systems aren't noisey because they don't use straight cut gears except for perhaps 1st gear and reverse. They differ from the some racing systems in that they are electro hydrolicly actuated. In some regards one would say they are more sophisticated akin to an F1's system with a brain that prohibits grinding of the gears and overrevving downshifts. The Hewland seq. sys. in the Stealth you can get it all wrong if you don't know how to handle a crash box. This may be the type of system people are talking about not being on the road. Some motorcycles might have something like it. I dunno.
Hewland's got a great website. Good specs, photos, and prices to remind me I can't afford this stuff.
>> Edited by PiB on Friday 14th February 18:49
Hewland's got a great website. Good specs, photos, and prices to remind me I can't afford this stuff.
>> Edited by PiB on Friday 14th February 18:49
The Toyota MR2 with SMT has no torque converter.
Perhaps there is a cheaper automatic version or the UK is getting something different. All I know is what I read in Road & Track.
www.caroptionsonline.com/8_23gerry.htm
This article says it has paddles but I couldn't see them on Toyotas website.
I had read else where that it had buttons on the front and back of the wheel and also a lever you can use in the center counsel. 2003 has a six speed.
I read the 2002 model's smt was not well refined. I just assume have a H pattern on this or Bmw or Ferrari. I would accept some real racing hardware thou.
>> Edited by PiB on Saturday 15th February 16:29
Perhaps there is a cheaper automatic version or the UK is getting something different. All I know is what I read in Road & Track.
www.caroptionsonline.com/8_23gerry.htm
This article says it has paddles but I couldn't see them on Toyotas website.
I had read else where that it had buttons on the front and back of the wheel and also a lever you can use in the center counsel. 2003 has a six speed.
I read the 2002 model's smt was not well refined. I just assume have a H pattern on this or Bmw or Ferrari. I would accept some real racing hardware thou.
>> Edited by PiB on Saturday 15th February 16:29
GTRCLIVE said: If it's ther MR2 with the buttons on the steering wheel, then I'm sorry it's just a Glorified Auto, with selectable gears, and a Torque converter. Sorry mate Import Toyotas for a side line.
Sorry GTRCLIVE, I'm with PiB on this, quote from www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/spin/48985/article.html "The Toyota is similar in concept to the transmissions used in Formula One race cars, a sequentially shifting manual is a manual transmission without a clutch pedal. It is indeed a full manual transmission; there is no torque converter" and "An SMT does have a clutch, but it is operated by electrically controlled hydraulics" and "There are three main advantages to an SMT: 1) Since there is no torque converter, efficiency is higher than an automatic; 2) An SMT can theoretically shift faster than a human can; 3) Since it is computer-controlled, there is virtually no chance of driver-induced error. For more information on sequential manual transmissions, we recommend reading our Innovations story about this subject" and "Once you're rolling, pulling the spring-loaded lever toward the rear of the car will execute one upshift, while pushing it forward causes a downshift. Alternately, there are four buttons on the horizontal steering wheel spokes that can be used to shift. Two buttons mounted on front are for downshifts, while two on the backside are for upshifts. Some of our drivers complained that this arrangement is counterintuitive, but at least the buttons and the shifter operate similarly. Most of us had to apply extra concentration our first time out in the SMT, but successive drives were no problem"
So, no torque converter so no glorified auto on the 2002 MR2 Spyder and it has buttons and shifter..... sounds like you are perhaps talking about an earlier one... Score one for PiB
In that case they produce two different models, as I have Driven Celica's and Mr2's with a 4 Speed selectable Auto box (with Button on the Front and Back of the Wheel). So far my partner and I have sold about 6 of the Celica’s and 2 Mr2's with this stile Auto box. They are not available in the Uk, we get them direct from Japan, Import them to the Uk do all the SVA stuff then sell them on here. Toyota UK decided not to import the Auto's here when the 1999 Models came out. Left a small market for us, nice of them I thought. But they are thinking of changing there mind.
Sorry Phil but I have owned the cars in Question so Know a Little about what I'm talking about. The latest MR2 was a 2001 Model, and the Latest Celica was a 2002, all 4 Speed.
>> Edited by GTRCLIVE on Sunday 16th February 08:15
Sorry Phil but I have owned the cars in Question so Know a Little about what I'm talking about. The latest MR2 was a 2001 Model, and the Latest Celica was a 2002, all 4 Speed.
>> Edited by GTRCLIVE on Sunday 16th February 08:15
Clive
I didn't say you didn't know what you were talking about. It's just very confusing that all web sites I have checked refer to the car as using manual sequential with no torque converter. So I am confused. I know not to trust the web but on this topic, all sites I have checked agree. Must be therefore, as I said earlier, different models exist. I think that is rather strange though.
Back to what I thought was the point, sequential manuals are available for the road based on normal gearboxes eg Getrag.
Phil
I didn't say you didn't know what you were talking about. It's just very confusing that all web sites I have checked refer to the car as using manual sequential with no torque converter. So I am confused. I know not to trust the web but on this topic, all sites I have checked agree. Must be therefore, as I said earlier, different models exist. I think that is rather strange though.
Back to what I thought was the point, sequential manuals are available for the road based on normal gearboxes eg Getrag.
Phil
GTRCLIVE said: The latest MR2 was a 2001 Model, and the Latest Celica was a 2002, all 4 Speed.
Clive
At the bottom of the Car and Driver write up www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/roadtests/2002/september/200209_shorttake_mr2.xml there is a photo of the sequential stick. Did your imports have this arrangement? I think the key to differences you have seen is that you mention a four speed box. I have only seen SMT mentioned in a five and six speed version on the MR2.
Phil
The gear stick is similar to a Mitsi FTO, if you have them out there. I must admit this gear system sounds really good. Wonder when Porsche will use it so we can fit it to a GTR.
Photo's of my Celica Here....
http://community.webshots.com/album/63912210nRxyYX
>> Edited by GTRCLIVE on Monday 17th February 07:53
Photo's of my Celica Here....
http://community.webshots.com/album/63912210nRxyYX
>> Edited by GTRCLIVE on Monday 17th February 07:53
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