Ferrari & Renault have been racing illegal cars.
Discussion
No wonder they have been so good this year, but I wonder if it had been just Renault would the penalty have been more severe but because Ferrari have been caught doing the same they have been given time/grace to remove the offending articles and comply with the regulations.
Ferrari and Renault have been informed in recent days that they have to change their front damping systems because they have moving parts inside the dampers and these are banned under Article 3.15 of the FIA Formula 1 Technical Regulations for 2006. The rules state that all parts of the car must be "rigidly secured to the entirely sprung part of the car" and "must remain immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car". The FIA has concluded that weights inside the dampers cannot be acceptable. The aim of these weights is to reduce the amount of vibration from the tyres that is transmitted to the chassis and thus make the car more stable. Reducing bounce from the tyres means that the cars get more grip.
The concept was first used in the the Citroen 2CV in the late 1940s and was designed to reduce wheel patter, vertical oscillation of the wheels caused by the tyres. More recently, however, the same basic concept has been used in architectural design to reduce resonance created by wind or earthquakes.
It will be interesting to see whether the rule changes will have any noticeable effect on the performance of the cars.
Any other team besides Ferrari or the current world champions might have received a ban, after all the precident was set last year when Honda/BAR were banned for 2 races for bending the rules and getting caught, unlike the others at the time who also indulged in a little bending but got away with it.
GP.com said:
Ferrari and Renault have been informed in recent days that they have to change their front damping systems because they have moving parts inside the dampers and these are banned under Article 3.15 of the FIA Formula 1 Technical Regulations for 2006. The rules state that all parts of the car must be "rigidly secured to the entirely sprung part of the car" and "must remain immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car". The FIA has concluded that weights inside the dampers cannot be acceptable. The aim of these weights is to reduce the amount of vibration from the tyres that is transmitted to the chassis and thus make the car more stable. Reducing bounce from the tyres means that the cars get more grip.
The concept was first used in the the Citroen 2CV in the late 1940s and was designed to reduce wheel patter, vertical oscillation of the wheels caused by the tyres. More recently, however, the same basic concept has been used in architectural design to reduce resonance created by wind or earthquakes.
It will be interesting to see whether the rule changes will have any noticeable effect on the performance of the cars.
Any other team besides Ferrari or the current world champions might have received a ban, after all the precident was set last year when Honda/BAR were banned for 2 races for bending the rules and getting caught, unlike the others at the time who also indulged in a little bending but got away with it.
Edited by FourWheelDrift on Thursday 20th July 17:08
FourWheelDrift said:
Any other team besides Ferrari or the current world champions might have received a ban, after all the precident was set last year when Honda/BAR were banned for 2 races for bending the rules and getting caught, unlike the others at the time who also indulged in a little bending but got away with it.
If it had just been Renault that got nabbed, then they would have got a ban aswell. But because they got caught in unison with Ferrari they were lucky. Couldn't go banning Ferrari now could we...
Another part of the press release, courtesy of Autosport:
With the use of mass dampers growing, however, the FIA this week stepped into the situation and outlawed them completely.
With the damper systems helping improve handling characteristics through corners and over kerbs by keeping the car more level, the FIA has claimed that the devices are illegal because they are 'moveable aerodynamic devices'.
A letter sent to the teams by FIA technical delegate Charlie Whiting said: "The use of mass dampers, normally fitted in the nose of a car, is now widespread. Even though we have never been asked specifically whether or not their use may contravene any part of the Technical Regulations our view, until now, has been that they do not.
"However, recent evidence and an escalation in development by some teams, has made it clear to us that the principle purpose of these devices is to improve the aerodynamic performance of the car.
"As the mass suspended inside the dampers is designed to move freely it is therefore not secured to the entirely sprung part of the car nor does it remain immobile in relation to it.
"Therefore, as this movement influences the aerodynamic performance of the car we feel that mass dampers of this sort contravene Article 3.15 of the F1 Technical Regulations and we no longer consider their use permissible."
Although it is hard to say exactly what effect the ban will have in terms of the fight between the main championship contenders, there are suggestions that Renault stand to lose more than Ferrari because of the characteristics of Michelin's tyres
It appears that this rule "interpretation" will benefit Ferrari.
During a year in which the Championship is a closely-run thing, there is a unilateral ruling from the FIA that benefits Ferrari? Now that's a shock!
With the use of mass dampers growing, however, the FIA this week stepped into the situation and outlawed them completely.
With the damper systems helping improve handling characteristics through corners and over kerbs by keeping the car more level, the FIA has claimed that the devices are illegal because they are 'moveable aerodynamic devices'.
A letter sent to the teams by FIA technical delegate Charlie Whiting said: "The use of mass dampers, normally fitted in the nose of a car, is now widespread. Even though we have never been asked specifically whether or not their use may contravene any part of the Technical Regulations our view, until now, has been that they do not.
"However, recent evidence and an escalation in development by some teams, has made it clear to us that the principle purpose of these devices is to improve the aerodynamic performance of the car.
"As the mass suspended inside the dampers is designed to move freely it is therefore not secured to the entirely sprung part of the car nor does it remain immobile in relation to it.
"Therefore, as this movement influences the aerodynamic performance of the car we feel that mass dampers of this sort contravene Article 3.15 of the F1 Technical Regulations and we no longer consider their use permissible."
Although it is hard to say exactly what effect the ban will have in terms of the fight between the main championship contenders, there are suggestions that Renault stand to lose more than Ferrari because of the characteristics of Michelin's tyres
It appears that this rule "interpretation" will benefit Ferrari.
During a year in which the Championship is a closely-run thing, there is a unilateral ruling from the FIA that benefits Ferrari? Now that's a shock!
rubystone said:
flemke said:
'moveable aerodynamic devices'.
riiiiiiight....and flexi wings are not "moveable aerodynamic devices" then .......
It was my impression that the problem with banning the BMW rear wing was that they couldn't measure its movement, only observe the movement on video.
My hunch is that they'll rewrite the rule to cover observed but unmeasurable movement.
Seems like the objective is to create a one make series.
The winning cars will be red and the other teams will race the cars that the red teams used in previous years.
The winner will be determined in advance and, until he chooses to retire, he will be German.
This will allow all the races to be run in Germany once the Italians have shut Monza and Bernie has killed of San Marino as not being a proper country.
Even better for Mad Max's cost cutting strategy, they will be able to run on kart tracks - the rules allowing little else by way of development.
Is there no way to by-pass the FIA?
The winning cars will be red and the other teams will race the cars that the red teams used in previous years.
The winner will be determined in advance and, until he chooses to retire, he will be German.
This will allow all the races to be run in Germany once the Italians have shut Monza and Bernie has killed of San Marino as not being a proper country.
Even better for Mad Max's cost cutting strategy, they will be able to run on kart tracks - the rules allowing little else by way of development.
Is there no way to by-pass the FIA?
GreenV8S said:
What total b*llocks. So if they decide that the throttle pedal affects the aerodynamics (which it does, by changing the pitch attitude of the car) they're going to ban that? Imbeciles.
You are aware that the current "formula" was set at the time the current Concorde Agreement was consummated, about a decade ago. Amongst other things, the CA enshrined V10 engines. The teams therefore expected V10s to be usable at least until the CA expired in '08 - not unreasonable of them.
In the event, the whole, multi-hundred million pound switch to V8s was dictated by Mosley on the only grounds available to him - "safety".
Interesting that this year the V8s and the return to (Ferrari-favouring) tyre changes have brought about higher corner entry speeds and higher lateral-g loads. Safety, right?
The way the rules of the CA work, the FIA can mandate anything it wants under the rubric of "safety".
flemke said:
Interesting that this year the V8s and the return to (Ferrari-favouring) tyre changes have brought about higher corner entry speeds and higher lateral-g loads. Safety, right?
Jacques Villeneuve made comment on this a few months ago. Something along the lines of...
"The cars are now slower in the safest parts of the track, and quicker in the areas where we see the most crashes".
Never thought I'd be quoting JV saying something sensible...
GreenV8S said:
What total b*llocks. So if they decide that the throttle pedal affects the aerodynamics (which it does, by changing the pitch attitude of the car) they're going to ban that? Imbeciles.
Well the throttle pedal itself moves in relation to the sprung part of the car so it's illegal regardless of its effects. 
rubystone said:
flemke said:
'moveable aerodynamic devices'.
riiiiiiight....and flexi wings are not "moveable aerodynamic devices" then .......
In yesterday's Autosport I was surprised to read - and see a diagram - of Ferrari's new WINGS ON THE BRAKE DUCTS. Yes, these are aerodynamic devices that are movable by the driver turning the steering wheel. Gary Anderson was commenting on their efficiency without batting an eyelid as to them being a "movable aerodynamic device", but how on earth are they legal?
...and on the subject of rules favouring one team or another, I see that the GPMA teams are close to signing up to an engine freeze which sees Toyota, Honda, BMW and Mercedes (NOTE THE OMMISSION OF RENAULT AND FERRARI FROM THAT LIST), paying Eur15m each into a pot for 2007-2011 to fund engine developments by independent engine manufacturers. Interestingly, whilst Ferrari isn't named in that list of independents (but it's by no means an exhaustive list), Mechachrome is....and we all know which company owns the Mechachrome name don't we?...
So...we could see a situation where Ferrari's (engine) developments are funded By the other teams - plus ca change...
BTW is anyone else going to Adrian Newey's talk at the Design Museum next Monday evening?
So...we could see a situation where Ferrari's (engine) developments are funded By the other teams - plus ca change...
BTW is anyone else going to Adrian Newey's talk at the Design Museum next Monday evening?
jacobyte said:
rubystone said:
flemke said:
'moveable aerodynamic devices'.
riiiiiiight....and flexi wings are not "moveable aerodynamic devices" then .......
In yesterday's Autosport I was surprised to read - and see a diagram - of Ferrari's new WINGS ON THE BRAKE DUCTS. Yes, these are aerodynamic devices that are movable by the driver turning the steering wheel. Gary Anderson was commenting on their efficiency without batting an eyelid as to them being a "movable aerodynamic device", but how on earth are they legal?
If the prohibition applied to the whole car, the tyres would be as much an aero device as the mass damper.
rubystone said:
...and on the subject of rules favouring one team or another, I see that the GPMA teams are close to signing up to an engine freeze which sees Toyota, Honda, BMW and Mercedes (NOTE THE OMMISSION OF RENAULT AND FERRARI FROM THAT LIST), paying Eur15m each into a pot for 2007-2011 to fund engine developments by independent engine manufacturers. Interestingly, whilst Ferrari isn't named in that list of independents (but it's by no means an exhaustive list), Mechachrome is....and we all know which company owns the Mechachrome name don't we?...
So...we could see a situation where Ferrari's (engine) developments are funded By the other teams - plus ca change...
BTW is anyone else going to Adrian Newey's talk at the Design Museum next Monday evening?
Exactly. Some of the shit that the FIA and FIArrari get up to is beyond the imagination of a science fiction writer. So...we could see a situation where Ferrari's (engine) developments are funded By the other teams - plus ca change...
BTW is anyone else going to Adrian Newey's talk at the Design Museum next Monday evening?
These people have no sense of shame - none whatsoever.
rubystone said:
BTW is anyone else going to Adrian Newey's talk at the Design Museum next Monday evening?
My assumption has been that there would be tons of people there to hear Newey and it would be a group grope. Do you have a sense of the likely size of the crowd? The exhibit itself is pretty good. The best part by far is last year's Renault, sections of which are cut away for inspection.
Also, an interesting group of Honda engines, starting with a 1.5lt transverse jobby from '65, IIRC.
Graphic design of the show is good as well.
The verbal bits are a waste. Whoever edited it (if anyone did) knows nothing about racing, so there are loads of mis-spellings.
Don't bother reading, just look at the pretty objects.
Edited by flemke on Friday 21st July 10:14
flemke said:
jacobyte said:
rubystone said:
flemke said:
'moveable aerodynamic devices'.
riiiiiiight....and flexi wings are not "moveable aerodynamic devices" then .......
In yesterday's Autosport I was surprised to read - and see a diagram - of Ferrari's new WINGS ON THE BRAKE DUCTS. Yes, these are aerodynamic devices that are movable by the driver turning the steering wheel. Gary Anderson was commenting on their efficiency without batting an eyelid as to them being a "movable aerodynamic device", but how on earth are they legal?
If the prohibition applied to the whole car, the tyres would be as much an aero device as the mass damper.
IIRC, back in the early days of wings they were mounted on the uprights so that they could run softer spring rates and allow the downforce to go directly into the ground, rather than on the sprung mass. This would of course be much more efficient, but as the wings kept breaking, due to the flexing of the metal struts, they were outlawed under safety grounds. Was this not the originator of banning a "movable aerodynamic device"?
Of course, the brake cooling devices are not connected across the car like a rear wing is, so there are no moving parts to break. Perhaps this is the loophole?
MrKipling43 said:
Also, Mechachrome are Renault, not Ferrari.
I assumed that everyone knew that. As it happens, that may not be entirely true. Briatore set up and ran Mecachrome (admittedly from Viry Chatillon) when he left Benetton. Naturally, the IPR would rest with Renault re engines, but do they actually own the Mecachrome name itself? If not, then what's to stop Briatore branding ANY independent engine as "Mecachrome"...including Ferrari's....
Same goes for the "Playlife" branding - which, as I'm sure you all know, was the name given to the Mecachrome (nee Renault) engines used by Benetton - identical (allegedly) to those used by Williams.
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