accept repair or demand refund
Discussion
Any opinions on this probelm ?
My partner bought me a new watch for Crimbo just gone, which was very nice and I liked it a lot. Its now stopped working properly and its the second Seiko watch I've had do that on me.
OK I'll get a refund and buy another make.
Went to shop today and smarmy 'retail manager' type (sorry anyone in retail management !) refuses to offer either refund or credit note, despite it being a cheap-ish watch (£200 or something) and the shop on the main street in town (not some backwater dive).
I tried to be reasonable and explain that this was the second Seiko and its bust just like the other after 6 weeks, and that I would buy something else in his shop anyway. I was firmly but politely putting my view across. His answer to everything was "we don't have to offer you a refund"
OK I wanted to punch his smilling little dial in (he was shaking like a leaf as he tried to show me all the scratches I'd made since Christmas - my asre !).
So question is am I being unreasonable in asking him to do something he not onbliged to do by law, and is he right in thinking we cannot ask for a refund more than 14 days after purchase ?
what would you do ?
My partner bought me a new watch for Crimbo just gone, which was very nice and I liked it a lot. Its now stopped working properly and its the second Seiko watch I've had do that on me.
OK I'll get a refund and buy another make.
Went to shop today and smarmy 'retail manager' type (sorry anyone in retail management !) refuses to offer either refund or credit note, despite it being a cheap-ish watch (£200 or something) and the shop on the main street in town (not some backwater dive).
I tried to be reasonable and explain that this was the second Seiko and its bust just like the other after 6 weeks, and that I would buy something else in his shop anyway. I was firmly but politely putting my view across. His answer to everything was "we don't have to offer you a refund"
OK I wanted to punch his smilling little dial in (he was shaking like a leaf as he tried to show me all the scratches I'd made since Christmas - my asre !).
So question is am I being unreasonable in asking him to do something he not onbliged to do by law, and is he right in thinking we cannot ask for a refund more than 14 days after purchase ?
what would you do ?
When was the original purchase made and when was the replacement given?
You have 30 days to return an item if its faulty and you have complete and utter control over the situation. Outside this period I believe it is up to the retail outlet.
As you have had two its really in their interests to give you an alternative as I imagine the way you are feeling now this fella is never going to sell a watch, let alone a Seiko to anyone you know.
Matt.
You have 30 days to return an item if its faulty and you have complete and utter control over the situation. Outside this period I believe it is up to the retail outlet.
As you have had two its really in their interests to give you an alternative as I imagine the way you are feeling now this fella is never going to sell a watch, let alone a Seiko to anyone you know.
Matt.
Personally i would have twatted him 
then again you could always throw down a gauntlet to him along the lines of: you either give me a re-fund or Im gonaa spend all day standing outside your doorway telling every potential customer that comes in just how crap your service is and then bore them with the full details, and reccommend that they go to ******* (competitor) and see how many of them spend any money with you.
then again you could always throw down a gauntlet to him along the lines of: you either give me a re-fund or Im gonaa spend all day standing outside your doorway telling every potential customer that comes in just how crap your service is and then bore them with the full details, and reccommend that they go to ******* (competitor) and see how many of them spend any money with you.
As I understand it :-
If you can show that the goods were faulty at the time of purchase then you are entitled to a refund, if the goods break within a "reasonable" period of time then you are entitled to a refund, or the retailer can offer to do a repair which you may accept or refuse.
Unfortunately "reasonable" is not defined anywhere you have to apply a test of "reasonableness"(sp?) which is also undefined.
check out www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/consumers/index.htm - the on-line leaflets give the basics.
HTH
Paul
If you can show that the goods were faulty at the time of purchase then you are entitled to a refund, if the goods break within a "reasonable" period of time then you are entitled to a refund, or the retailer can offer to do a repair which you may accept or refuse.
Unfortunately "reasonable" is not defined anywhere you have to apply a test of "reasonableness"(sp?) which is also undefined.
check out www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/consumers/index.htm - the on-line leaflets give the basics.
HTH
Paul
Interesting one, this. I used to deal with customer aggro on behalf of a national retailer of electrical items. The usual test to apply is, has the customer had some use out of the item which is now faulty? I don't think that there is a legally binding time limit on how much use has been had.
The smaller the firm concerned, the less likely they are to give you a refund just to make you go away, because they are then going to be stuck with a second hand watch. I always buy stuff from large companies, specifically for this reason.
If it goes to court it will be decided on what is reasonable, and it is my guess that a court would decide in favour of the retailer as long as he repairs the watch promptly.
Suggesting that you will stand outside the shop telling people what nasty b**tards they are won't work, the police will move you on and in any case, it just embarrasses other customers who will assume that you are some kind of nutcase
John
The smaller the firm concerned, the less likely they are to give you a refund just to make you go away, because they are then going to be stuck with a second hand watch. I always buy stuff from large companies, specifically for this reason.
If it goes to court it will be decided on what is reasonable, and it is my guess that a court would decide in favour of the retailer as long as he repairs the watch promptly.
Suggesting that you will stand outside the shop telling people what nasty b**tards they are won't work, the police will move you on and in any case, it just embarrasses other customers who will assume that you are some kind of nutcase
John
which one? Wouldnt begin with a C would it and have a CS/Home Deliveries Department just outside Dartford? 
Have you tried Seiko direct, I know idealy you want a different brand but I imagine that a whinge to customer services might bring an offer to the table 
www.seiko.co.uk/
www.seiko.co.uk/
I am a nutcase.... !
Seriously though, I don't envy anyone doing a customer complaints job. Hard work.
It does seem though that I don't have a case for a refund, as the reasonable time seems to be 1 week. (What happens if you buy it to give as a gift !?).
I didn't fancy standing outside all day shouting at people. The religious nutters do a better job of that than I could.
Its actually a well known chain and in a premier position in town.
Maybe I'll write a letter into the local rag..? I'll never shop there again either, that's for sure... just glad I didn't buy the engagement ring there just before christmas.
Seriously though, I don't envy anyone doing a customer complaints job. Hard work.
It does seem though that I don't have a case for a refund, as the reasonable time seems to be 1 week. (What happens if you buy it to give as a gift !?).
I didn't fancy standing outside all day shouting at people. The religious nutters do a better job of that than I could.
Its actually a well known chain and in a premier position in town.
Maybe I'll write a letter into the local rag..? I'll never shop there again either, that's for sure... just glad I didn't buy the engagement ring there just before christmas.
From a Trading Standards Website.
SALE OF GOODS ACT 1979 (As amended)
When you buy goods from a shop, market stall, garage, etc. the law says they have to be of satisfactory quality. The satisfactory quality test includes the appearance and finish of the goods, their safety and durability. Goods must be free from defects, even minor ones, unless the seller has pointed them out to you, and fit for all their intended purposes - including any purpose the seller told you about.
The law also gives you a REASONABLE time to reject goods if they're faulty. What is "REASONABLE" is not a fixed period of time but will depend on their cost and complexity. Simply signing a delivery or acceptance note does NOT mean you have signed away your right to reject them. You must still have a reasonable time try them out.
Normally you can take your purchase home and make sure it satisfactory, but if you delay examining it, or telling the seller about a fault, you may lose your right to reject it and a refund of your money.
Incidentally, letting the seller have a go at putting faulty goods right has no effect on your legal right to reject them. If you take the goods back promptly, and the seller's attempt to repair them fails, you can still reject the goods - but you must act promptly.
As mentioned before...REASONABLE. You buy a watch to tell the time. The watch stops working after 6 weeks, therefore it is obviously not fit for purpose. If I were you I would go back to the shop, and quote this act. If he declines to refund your money, then explain that you require his full name and the trading name of the company so that you can consider raising a small claims action against them. If this doesn't work, send the watch back to Seiko and get it repaired under the guarantee...!!
This is different but related. I bought a set of wipers for my wifes car from Halfords. They were meant to be multi fit, but they wouldn't fit her car. I took them back two weeks later and was refused a refund, but offered a credit. I politely pointed out that the wipers could not be called fit for purpose and they claimed as they did not fit the car. I quoted the act and was given cash back.
SALE OF GOODS ACT 1979 (As amended)
When you buy goods from a shop, market stall, garage, etc. the law says they have to be of satisfactory quality. The satisfactory quality test includes the appearance and finish of the goods, their safety and durability. Goods must be free from defects, even minor ones, unless the seller has pointed them out to you, and fit for all their intended purposes - including any purpose the seller told you about.
The law also gives you a REASONABLE time to reject goods if they're faulty. What is "REASONABLE" is not a fixed period of time but will depend on their cost and complexity. Simply signing a delivery or acceptance note does NOT mean you have signed away your right to reject them. You must still have a reasonable time try them out.
Normally you can take your purchase home and make sure it satisfactory, but if you delay examining it, or telling the seller about a fault, you may lose your right to reject it and a refund of your money.
Incidentally, letting the seller have a go at putting faulty goods right has no effect on your legal right to reject them. If you take the goods back promptly, and the seller's attempt to repair them fails, you can still reject the goods - but you must act promptly.
As mentioned before...REASONABLE. You buy a watch to tell the time. The watch stops working after 6 weeks, therefore it is obviously not fit for purpose. If I were you I would go back to the shop, and quote this act. If he declines to refund your money, then explain that you require his full name and the trading name of the company so that you can consider raising a small claims action against them. If this doesn't work, send the watch back to Seiko and get it repaired under the guarantee...!!
This is different but related. I bought a set of wipers for my wifes car from Halfords. They were meant to be multi fit, but they wouldn't fit her car. I took them back two weeks later and was refused a refund, but offered a credit. I politely pointed out that the wipers could not be called fit for purpose and they claimed as they did not fit the car. I quoted the act and was given cash back.
I agree with the people who are saying it is not suitable for its purpose. A watch should last longer than 6 weeks especially when it cost £200. You might expect a watch bought for £5 to break after 6 weeks, bit not an expensive one.
I thought I had read somewhere that once you allow retailers to muck around trying to repair something that is faulty you then lose your rights for a replacement.
Therefore I would seek a new replacement or as it is the 2nd to break I'd seek a refund. Might be worth seeing CAB.
Chris
I thought I had read somewhere that once you allow retailers to muck around trying to repair something that is faulty you then lose your rights for a replacement.
Therefore I would seek a new replacement or as it is the 2nd to break I'd seek a refund. Might be worth seeing CAB.
Chris
If you ask for or recieve repair to the item , you lose any right to refund. refund is then at the discretion of the retailer. You are entitled to return the goods if they are not fit for purpose at any time providing they have not been made unfit for purpose through wear and tear. If there is a manufacturing fault then they must replace the item as it is de facto not fit for its purpose. Those are your statutory rights. In addition the retailer may offer additional service - 30 no quibble replacement - that sort of thing, but they may not leave you with goods which do not work.
Decide if you want repair or replacement and stick to your guns, have trading standards number with you at the shop and be prepared to call them there and then in front of the customers and the sales guy.
good luck.
Decide if you want repair or replacement and stick to your guns, have trading standards number with you at the shop and be prepared to call them there and then in front of the customers and the sales guy.
good luck.
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