D-SLR motorsport photography...panning advice
Discussion
Hi all,
Bit of a silly question, but I'm off to Donington BTCC this weekend and the IS lens I've ordered is still in the ether between Canon and Warehouse Express.
So I've an old Canon AF-S 70-200 lens to take. Now this is the first time I'll have used AF AND a D-SLR for motorsport...previously it was my old manual-everything T70. Plus, when I tried panning with the new kit on honeymoon (all on auto), all I got was blur.
So:-
- Should I set the lens to manual focus? (I guess this is the obvious thing to do...but I'm a complete Digital and AF novice, so what do I know?)
- Is there anything I can do on the EOS-20D to ensure I get crisp photos while panning?
- Any other tips?
Cheers guys,
Martin
Bit of a silly question, but I'm off to Donington BTCC this weekend and the IS lens I've ordered is still in the ether between Canon and Warehouse Express.
So I've an old Canon AF-S 70-200 lens to take. Now this is the first time I'll have used AF AND a D-SLR for motorsport...previously it was my old manual-everything T70. Plus, when I tried panning with the new kit on honeymoon (all on auto), all I got was blur.
So:-
- Should I set the lens to manual focus? (I guess this is the obvious thing to do...but I'm a complete Digital and AF novice, so what do I know?)
- Is there anything I can do on the EOS-20D to ensure I get crisp photos while panning?
- Any other tips?
Cheers guys,
Martin
I'm trying to figure out what a Canon AF-S lens is. I thought that was a Nikon designation?
Unless it's one of the original Canon AF lenses which they made for the T Series with all the AF sensors etc in the lens. A big old clunky thing by any chance?
If it's not an EF or EF-S mount it will not fit.
Unless it's one of the original Canon AF lenses which they made for the T Series with all the AF sensors etc in the lens. A big old clunky thing by any chance?
If it's not an EF or EF-S mount it will not fit.
For panning I normally use a shutter speed of 1/125.
The rest is like playing golf. Put both feets parallel pointing to the spot where you want to get your target and just swing your upper body from one side to the other following the target. Don't move your feet, otherwise this will create blur. Make at least three pictures per 'shot', one before, one on target and one after.
The rest is like playing golf. Put both feets parallel pointing to the spot where you want to get your target and just swing your upper body from one side to the other following the target. Don't move your feet, otherwise this will create blur. Make at least three pictures per 'shot', one before, one on target and one after.
Edited by hansgerd on Wednesday 26th July 16:08
monkeyhanger said:
I'm trying to figure out what a Canon AF-S lens is. I thought that was a Nikon designation?
Unless it's one of the original Canon AF lenses which they made for the T Series with all the AF sensors etc in the lens. A big old clunky thing by any chance?
If it's not an EF or EF-S mount it will not fit.
Unless it's one of the original Canon AF lenses which they made for the T Series with all the AF sensors etc in the lens. A big old clunky thing by any chance?
If it's not an EF or EF-S mount it will not fit.
Honestly...I don't know for sure...I've inherited it from my Dad to tide me over until the new lens arrives, I've not really looked that closely at it.
It fits the -20D and works OK (if a little slowly sometimes), which in the absence of anything else is what I need.
The lens IS rather old ... an auto-focus Canon is about as much as I could say ... Dad's just upgraded to a 350D from one of the early EOS-series film-SLRs, which this lens is from. It's not big and clunky though, bit longer than modern lenses but light enough.
Thanks for the other advice...I know how to pan with a normal SLR...have done it for years. Just not yet familiar with the digital and autofocus...hence how I got blurred shots of moving monkeys on holiday. I guess I want to know whether to switch something off or change one of the modes on the body. Will look into 'AI Servo'.
Edited by havoc on Wednesday 26th July 16:48
I think Canon did a 70-200 EF (Non L)many moons ago although i know nothing about it.
Set the 20D to AI Servo, and use the centre focus point only. Don't use all 9 focus points as there will be a lot going on and it will pick the wrong point.
That said if you find the AF is too slow with that lens, stick with what you know and go manual, although the DSLR's don't have the focus screen like the old manuals did so it's a bit harder to achieve a lock.
Which IS lens have you ordered then? For some reason Canon lenses seem to have been in short supply for quite a while.
Set the 20D to AI Servo, and use the centre focus point only. Don't use all 9 focus points as there will be a lot going on and it will pick the wrong point.
That said if you find the AF is too slow with that lens, stick with what you know and go manual, although the DSLR's don't have the focus screen like the old manuals did so it's a bit harder to achieve a lock.
Which IS lens have you ordered then? For some reason Canon lenses seem to have been in short supply for quite a while.
If you are planning on being at Donny on Saturday and fancy an experiment I have a cracking old manual FD f4.5 600mm lens for which I also have an FD to EOS adapter. Could be fun to try it on the 20D. Its previous owner used it on a 1D.
You would effectively get something like a 960mm f4.5 equivalent with the 20D crop factor I believe.
Then I have 2x extender for it which makes life really interesting - so long as there is enough light to shoot at about 1/2000th ... or maybe faster?
Bit off topic mind. I have tried panning with it at 1200mm and I can confirm that it is a real challenge. Almost invariably blurred but it doesn't really matter as the chances of having the intended subject in frame are very slim!
You would effectively get something like a 960mm f4.5 equivalent with the 20D crop factor I believe.
Then I have 2x extender for it which makes life really interesting - so long as there is enough light to shoot at about 1/2000th ... or maybe faster?
Bit off topic mind. I have tried panning with it at 1200mm and I can confirm that it is a real challenge. Almost invariably blurred but it doesn't really matter as the chances of having the intended subject in frame are very slim!
LongQ said:
If you are planning on being at Donny on Saturday and fancy an experiment I have a cracking old manual FD f4.5 600mm lens for which I also have an FD to EOS adapter. Could be fun to try it on the 20D. Its previous owner used it on a 1D.
You would effectively get something like a 960mm f4.5 equivalent with the 20D crop factor I believe.
Then I have 2x extender for it which makes life really interesting - so long as there is enough light to shoot at about 1/2000th ... or maybe faster?
Bit off topic mind. I have tried panning with it at 1200mm and I can confirm that it is a real challenge. Almost invariably blurred but it doesn't really matter as the chances of having the intended subject in frame are very slim!
You would effectively get something like a 960mm f4.5 equivalent with the 20D crop factor I believe.
Then I have 2x extender for it which makes life really interesting - so long as there is enough light to shoot at about 1/2000th ... or maybe faster?
Bit off topic mind. I have tried panning with it at 1200mm and I can confirm that it is a real challenge. Almost invariably blurred but it doesn't really matter as the chances of having the intended subject in frame are very slim!
Got an FD to F-mount adapter for that, too?
monkeyhanger - thanks for the advice...I'll try a few things out - AI servo, centre-point and manual focus, see what works. I probably should get around to RTFM at some point as well, eh?!?
Lens on order is the EF-S 70-300 IS USM (have I missed any letters out?). Not the diffractive optics one, but the cheaper one which is a bit bigger but still fairly new and with very good reviews. Which reminds me...need to mail Warehouse Express again, see if it's on the way yet...
As for Donington...I'll probably be on the banking inside of Craner and Old Hairpin. Not the closest, granted, but with a -200 and the D-SLR multiplier taking it to pretty much -300, and 8MP allowing some digi-zoom afterwards, I should get some decent shots. Do wish the -300IS had arrived, though...
LongQ - Sunday only, alas...but many thanks for the offer, would've been nice to play with a cannon on my canon!
:coat:
If anyone else will be there on Sunday, let me know...would be nice to meet some PH'ers.
Cheers,
Martin
Lens on order is the EF-S 70-300 IS USM (have I missed any letters out?
). Not the diffractive optics one, but the cheaper one which is a bit bigger but still fairly new and with very good reviews. Which reminds me...need to mail Warehouse Express again, see if it's on the way yet... As for Donington...I'll probably be on the banking inside of Craner and Old Hairpin. Not the closest, granted, but with a -200 and the D-SLR multiplier taking it to pretty much -300, and 8MP allowing some digi-zoom afterwards, I should get some decent shots. Do wish the -300IS had arrived, though...
LongQ - Sunday only, alas...but many thanks for the offer, would've been nice to play with a cannon on my canon!
:coat: If anyone else will be there on Sunday, let me know...would be nice to meet some PH'ers.
Cheers,
Martin
havoc said:
As for Donington...I'll probably be on the banking inside of Craner and Old Hairpin. Not the closest, granted, but with a -200 and the D-SLR multiplier taking it to pretty much -300, and 8MP allowing some digi-zoom afterwards, I should get some decent shots. Do wish the -300IS had arrived, though...
Even 200mm can provide some good shots from the inside of the track at the lower end of the Craner curves. In fact 300 can be a bit tricky as it can overfill the frame on 35mm.
Whilst you are in that general area pop round to the other end of the banking for some shots under the bridge back towards the Old Hairpin and on the fast left (never can remember what that few feet of tarmac is called) under the bridge. Pretty close there and not usually any fencing.
This was taken there with the 1200mm set up. In this case the driver was on line, so in the very shallow DOF for focus, but whilst the pan speed looks spot on (to my eyes) and it's sharp the subject (driver head was the intention) 'slipped out of frame'.
The inside of Redgate is a good position if you can stand more or less at the centre of the radius if the racing line, such as it is. Especially good for pre-focus needs as the distance to subject (if on the racing line) is reasonably constant and speeds are fairly consistent during the pan movement. The depth of field you might expect from the lens/sensor combination on a reasonably brightly lit day should be enough to overcome the problems of useless drivers who are off line!
However. last time I was there they still had fences up from the Download Festival weekend. Hopefully they have now gone. The only other location you can get close on the inside of the track (afaik) is at Coppice at the top of the steps leading up from the tunnel.
Only room for one person there and you have to guess when the car will appear from behind the hedge ... but some interesting shots are possible. Panning distance is limited as a fence gets in the way of you follow round too far.
You probably already know all of this but I thought I would offer the info anyway just in case.
I have been intending to go to the Silverstone Classic on Sunday but having seen the events list for the day I might just change my plans. Whether that means heading for Donny instead I don't know. Saturday (free entry with my DPRAC membership) might be enough!
Cheers Q!
I was at Download. It was really weird...no, it was really WRONG (for someone who's done trackdays there)... watching a golf buggy and a JCB go through Craners at about 5mph!
Forecast for Sunday is rain early, by the looks of things, then brightening. Hopefully not much, as last time we were there the infield was churned up by all the cars there, getting across back to the banking was a test of balance.
LongQ said:
...However. last time I was there they still had fences up from the Download Festival weekend. Hopefully they have now gone.
I was at Download. It was really weird...no, it was really WRONG (for someone who's done trackdays there)... watching a golf buggy and a JCB go through Craners at about 5mph!
Forecast for Sunday is rain early, by the looks of things, then brightening. Hopefully not much, as last time we were there the infield was churned up by all the cars there, getting across back to the banking was a test of balance.
When using the 20D or panning Motorsports I storngly recommend AI Servo and set custom function 4 to '3'.
AI Servo on centre point with CF 4-3 set means that you hold down the * button on the top right on the back (right thumb) and this will operate the auto-focus and make sure that it will continually focus with the car. You then press the shutter when you want to take the shot. The benefit of 4-3 is that it takes the exposure reading at the exact moment you press the shutter and with practice is much easier to use that half-holding the shutter button.
AI Servo on centre point with CF 4-3 set means that you hold down the * button on the top right on the back (right thumb) and this will operate the auto-focus and make sure that it will continually focus with the car. You then press the shutter when you want to take the shot. The benefit of 4-3 is that it takes the exposure reading at the exact moment you press the shutter and with practice is much easier to use that half-holding the shutter button.
I've used manual focus a lot. Set centre focus point and then focus on the track at the point where you want to take the photo (most tarmac has enough crud on it to give a good AF lock).
Switch to manual at that point and shoot away by following the car to the same point and take the picture with a full press of the shutter release for each shot so the camera re-assess the exposure.
Particularly if you have a slow AF lens this could give you much better results.
J
Switch to manual at that point and shoot away by following the car to the same point and take the picture with a full press of the shutter release for each shot so the camera re-assess the exposure.
Particularly if you have a slow AF lens this could give you much better results.
J
Bee_Jay said:
When using the 20D or panning Motorsports I storngly recommend AI Servo and set custom function 4 to '3'.
AI Servo on centre point with CF 4-3 set means that you hold down the * button on the top right on the back (right thumb) and this will operate the auto-focus and make sure that it will continually focus with the car. You then press the shutter when you want to take the shot. The benefit of 4-3 is that it takes the exposure reading at the exact moment you press the shutter and with practice is much easier to use that half-holding the shutter button.
AI Servo on centre point with CF 4-3 set means that you hold down the * button on the top right on the back (right thumb) and this will operate the auto-focus and make sure that it will continually focus with the car. You then press the shutter when you want to take the shot. The benefit of 4-3 is that it takes the exposure reading at the exact moment you press the shutter and with practice is much easier to use that half-holding the shutter button.
Absoloutely.
However a word of caution, it's not something that everyone can get used to for some reason, but once you've mastered it you won't change back.
I'd suggest giving it a try before the event in case you don't like it
Well, a fairly steady practice day today with a Clio Cup and Porsche Carrera Cup brace of races to finish off the day.
The Clios seemed slightly less frenetic than usual and I have to say that the Porsche's looked and sounded better than I was expecting having seen them on the box a few times.
But the real reason for the post - forget what I said about the inside of Redgate - chances are you won't be able to get there. There is a large marquee covering the parking area and although it was not in serious use today I would guess that tomorrow it will be difficult to do much in that entire area - even assuming it will not be reserved for guests.
There is a small grandstand on the outside of Redgate - not sure if it is free. Could be useful for shots if it is. Right at the end of the fence at that point, right next to the Red Gate Lodge end it is possible to get right up to the fence if it is not too busy and thus almost avoid the fence wire and get some shots directly facing the start/finish straight. Could be good for any races with potential for first corner incidents.
The Clios seemed slightly less frenetic than usual and I have to say that the Porsche's looked and sounded better than I was expecting having seen them on the box a few times.
But the real reason for the post - forget what I said about the inside of Redgate - chances are you won't be able to get there. There is a large marquee covering the parking area and although it was not in serious use today I would guess that tomorrow it will be difficult to do much in that entire area - even assuming it will not be reserved for guests.
There is a small grandstand on the outside of Redgate - not sure if it is free. Could be useful for shots if it is. Right at the end of the fence at that point, right next to the Red Gate Lodge end it is possible to get right up to the fence if it is not too busy and thus almost avoid the fence wire and get some shots directly facing the start/finish straight. Could be good for any races with potential for first corner incidents.
Gassing Station | Photography & Video | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff