Discussion
I'm more than a little worried about this march for peace in London tomorrow. I've got a terrible feeling about what a coup it would be for the "other side" if someone went 
in the middle of things. I almost can't watch.
Should think the Met, 5 and 6 are all feeling very twitchy too, especailly with the coinciding end of Sajj.
If this has already been raised, sorry. I've had my leash tightened and can't on to PH as much as I like now
Distressed Mouse.
in the middle of things. I almost can't watch. Should think the Met, 5 and 6 are all feeling very twitchy too, especailly with the coinciding end of Sajj.
If this has already been raised, sorry. I've had my leash tightened and can't on to PH as much as I like now
Distressed Mouse.
I'm with you DM - the whole anti-war thing has been stirred up by the media giving a completely biased view on the situation.
IMHO we should just take a deep breath and get the job done.
Or perhaps we should sit on our asses Franco/German style and hope that if we're nice to him the nasty man will go away (echoes of Chamberlain & 1938)
IMHO we should just take a deep breath and get the job done.
Or perhaps we should sit on our asses Franco/German style and hope that if we're nice to him the nasty man will go away (echoes of Chamberlain & 1938)
as if....
It's a dirty job, but it's got to be done now.
The UN has already discredited it's self. TB is the only one upholding the original UN stance. The rest (typical flipping French
) have performed a u turn more characteristic of uk goverment.
There is obviously something far bigger going on than they are saying. Ignore the tanks at Heathrow..
...consider this, the next election is not that far off, but TB is risking political suicide, going to war against the apperent will of the country... or at least the 1 in 60 who seem to making alot of noise at the moment. He wouldn't do that without very good reason.
This is the one situation where freedom of speach may count against us.
It would be so easy for a someone to get into that crowd, and create a disaster....
...I almost don't want to say it unless it gives some freak the idea... :don'tberidiculousmouse:
If I was Tony, I'd declare a state of emergencey and ban the protest.
They would refuse tyo see why though... :help::sigh:
It's a dirty job, but it's got to be done now.
The UN has already discredited it's self. TB is the only one upholding the original UN stance. The rest (typical flipping French
) have performed a u turn more characteristic of uk goverment. There is obviously something far bigger going on than they are saying. Ignore the tanks at Heathrow..
...consider this, the next election is not that far off, but TB is risking political suicide, going to war against the apperent will of the country... or at least the 1 in 60 who seem to making alot of noise at the moment. He wouldn't do that without very good reason.
This is the one situation where freedom of speach may count against us.
It would be so easy for a someone to get into that crowd, and create a disaster....
...I almost don't want to say it unless it gives some freak the idea... :don'tberidiculousmouse:
If I was Tony, I'd declare a state of emergencey and ban the protest.
They would refuse tyo see why though... :help::sigh:
Poorest? I thought that they were one of the richest due to all the oil....
Citizen Rat said: we are dealing with one ot the worlds poorest countrys that has been roundly shat on for eleven years.
Sure, hardly any of the money has made it into the pockets of the people, but that's SHs fault.
If I was cynical, I would say that this would play perfectly into the hands of TB.
danger mouse said:
This is the one situation where freedom of speach may count against us.
It would be so easy for a someone to get into that crowd, and create a disaster....
Just think; some anti-war protesters killed - gets them out of his hair, and also convinces any people sitting on the fence that war is necessary, like it or not...
I'm not that cynical yet, but I'm getting there - CarZee - persuade me!
>> Edited by CraigAlsop on Friday 14th February 13:42
Citizen Rat said: we are dealing with one ot the worlds poorest countrys that has been roundly shat on for eleven years.
Who have you been listening to? The Iraqis have been shat on by SH and no one else. The West's sanctions have been implemented by him and his cronies in such a way that they have not suffered any hardship, they can carry on building weapons and presidential palaces, but they can't afford to provide food or medical care for their people.
Wake up and smell the coffee
I think with more than a fair few muslims in the crowd tomorrow (along with the Free Palestine lot) it might be one of the safest places to be...
I don't know if anyone saw Bush's speech yesterday (thick Texan drawl, "we're smokin' 'em out") - but I didn't exactly feel inspired.
I don't know if anyone saw Bush's speech yesterday (thick Texan drawl, "we're smokin' 'em out") - but I didn't exactly feel inspired.
I dunno - call me a coward, but I'd rather take the stairs than jump off the roof, ta very much.
It's a dirty job, but it's got to be done now
DM so let me get this right, the pm tells you that they need to do somthing, but wont explain why, several other counties with the same information dont think its such a good idea.
But the Pm is obviously a superior being and never makes things up or lies... so you believe it hook line and sinker...
He may be right but he's cried woof to many times and no longer has any credability, and just seems like dubyas lap dog..
I dont have the answer but i doubt going mob handed into Iraq without the international community behind you is just plain STUPID.
what then makes us any different to Iraq...
Cheers
Graham ( possibly that last person you'd find on an anti war protest)
But the Pm is obviously a superior being and never makes things up or lies... so you believe it hook line and sinker...
He may be right but he's cried woof to many times and no longer has any credability, and just seems like dubyas lap dog..
I dont have the answer but i doubt going mob handed into Iraq without the international community behind you is just plain STUPID.
what then makes us any different to Iraq...
Cheers
Graham ( possibly that last person you'd find on an anti war protest)
This thing with Iraq started out with Bush stating Iraq were a nuclear threat. This was diluted down to 'weapons of mass destruction', then to 'links with Al Quaeda'. Almost every country in the middle East has had links with this organisation in one manner or another, so do we pursue all these countries too? I think not, as there are people in the UK and the US with links to Al Quaeda. Also, why was there nothing said when the Iran/Iraq war kicked off in the early 80's, and Saddam gassed the Iranians and his own people in the south, just a week after Donald Rumsfeld had visited Iraq. Chemical weapons were against the Geneva Convention at that time, yet this happened and was ignored by all the major superpowers and the UN. Could it be control of the oil is the reason why US/Uk are so interested in Iraq? Where is this proof that the US/UK have against Iraq, and if it is so conclusive, then why don't the French/Germans agree with it. Why has it also not been made public in the UK?
We all agree that SH is a bad person, but is war the answer? He is a dictator, of the type who makes people 'disappear' if anything is said against him or his regime. The ordinary people of Iraq are the ones who have suffered under SH, and who will suffer the most if a war kicks off in that region. Personally I would like to see SH ousted, but I do not like the idea of war to achieve it. Also, I think the UN should be paying more attention to what is going on in North Korea, as they have a nuclear capability, and have publicly threatened to use it.
just my tuppenth worth ......
We all agree that SH is a bad person, but is war the answer? He is a dictator, of the type who makes people 'disappear' if anything is said against him or his regime. The ordinary people of Iraq are the ones who have suffered under SH, and who will suffer the most if a war kicks off in that region. Personally I would like to see SH ousted, but I do not like the idea of war to achieve it. Also, I think the UN should be paying more attention to what is going on in North Korea, as they have a nuclear capability, and have publicly threatened to use it.
just my tuppenth worth ......
Personally I think it's a lose lose situation for all concerned, as it is not a conventional war with armys fighting armys
If we go to war loads of innocent people die and we are subject to terrorist attacks........
If we don't go to war loads of innocent peole continue to die and we are subject to terrorist attacks..........
My personal view is don't go to war, just to save the money and spend it on a few new hospitals and nurses instead
If we go to war loads of innocent people die and we are subject to terrorist attacks........
If we don't go to war loads of innocent peole continue to die and we are subject to terrorist attacks..........
My personal view is don't go to war, just to save the money and spend it on a few new hospitals and nurses instead
Name a "conventional" war since 1914 where civilians DID NOT get killed. I deliberately did not say "innocent" civilians because, frankly, how can a bomber pilot differentiate between an innocent or a guilty civilian? Ask RAF Bomber Command (as in World War 2) - they decided that ALL German civilians were guilty.
Umm.. who's playing? 
To put that into context I only knew England were playing football after the fact, when it became clear they were spanked by the convict castaways..
Moved? no..
Dancing a jig when a British guy wins at world motorsport? Absolutely.. a bit out of practice now though, for obvious reasons..
Shame McRae's career is basically over and Burns is going down the same moaning excuse making twat route.
To put that into context I only knew England were playing football after the fact, when it became clear they were spanked by the convict castaways..
Moved? no..
Dancing a jig when a British guy wins at world motorsport? Absolutely.. a bit out of practice now though, for obvious reasons..
Shame McRae's career is basically over and Burns is going down the same moaning excuse making twat route.
Its all getting out of hand at the moment - not helped by the media and the government. I mean can the USA and UK be really honest and say that they are going to war over a missile that can fire 96miles + 15 miles? I think not.... there is more to this story than we (the public) are being told... the evidence so far provided isnt exactly damning or convincing - in a court of law it is certainly not beyond 'reasonable doubt'
Then again, SH is a loonie and needs to be stopped. There are plenty of other loonies out there - Heathrow Airport T2 is currently evacuated at the moment - so we need to protect our interests here and get on with something...
Peace march on Saturday - not a sensible move....as mentioned tie in with potential terrorist threat is a bad move (or is that the purpose?!?!?). Still, currently on the fence at the moment and constantly picking the splinters out of my arse...
Cheers,
Paul
Then again, SH is a loonie and needs to be stopped. There are plenty of other loonies out there - Heathrow Airport T2 is currently evacuated at the moment - so we need to protect our interests here and get on with something...
Peace march on Saturday - not a sensible move....as mentioned tie in with potential terrorist threat is a bad move (or is that the purpose?!?!?). Still, currently on the fence at the moment and constantly picking the splinters out of my arse...
Cheers,
Paul
I know a few people who will be going on the march, and while I respect that they are sincere, I think they are naive and extremely misguided.
SH must be made to abide by the ruling of the security council. This is not negotiable in any way. It seems to me perfectly obvious that normal diplomacy has entirely failed to budge his position one inch. The credible threat of extreme violence is the only thing that has been able to control his behaviour.
Therefore if you want to AVOID war, you have to make the THREAT absolutely compelling. Events like the Peace March undermine the credibility of the threat and therefore make war MORE LIKELY.
Nobody wants to go to war, but we must be prepared to do it when all the other options have run out. If anyone had any credible alternative plan I'm quite sure Blair and Bush would love to hear it.
(p.s. I've never been much of a fan of Blair, but in recent weeks he is actually behaving like a LEADER with some principlea and backbone. This could be the end of his political career, but at least he can now have some self respect.)
SH must be made to abide by the ruling of the security council. This is not negotiable in any way. It seems to me perfectly obvious that normal diplomacy has entirely failed to budge his position one inch. The credible threat of extreme violence is the only thing that has been able to control his behaviour.
Therefore if you want to AVOID war, you have to make the THREAT absolutely compelling. Events like the Peace March undermine the credibility of the threat and therefore make war MORE LIKELY.
Nobody wants to go to war, but we must be prepared to do it when all the other options have run out. If anyone had any credible alternative plan I'm quite sure Blair and Bush would love to hear it.
(p.s. I've never been much of a fan of Blair, but in recent weeks he is actually behaving like a LEADER with some principlea and backbone. This could be the end of his political career, but at least he can now have some self respect.)
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