Theiving Customs and Post Office
Discussion
I've just received a small machined part from the USA for my Lotus and have been stung for £32.53 by the Customs and £3.85 by the the Post Office for the privillage of the customs looking at it! 
WHAT IS THAT ALL ABOUT?
Theiving scum !!!
What if the part has to go back, do I get my money back?
WHAT IS THAT ALL ABOUT?
Theiving scum !!!
What if the part has to go back, do I get my money back?
I've just received a small machined part from the USA for my Lotus and have been stung for £32.53 by the Customs and £3.85 by the the Post Office for the privillage of the customs looking at it!
WHAT IS THAT ALL ABOUT?
Theiving scum !!!
What if the part has to go back, do I get my money back?
Think yourself lucky, I got stung for £6.14 import duty and VAT, plus the £3.85 Post Office fee. Not bad, when you consider I only paid about £10 for the actual goods!!!
Won't be importing goods again!!!
Let's assume it is customs duty and VAT. The average duty rate on most goods now into the EU is less than 4% (unless it is iextiles or foodstuffs/ag produce) and the VAT rate is 17.5% (which is paid on the value of the item including the duty, if any is charged).
Why shouldn't you pay it? You expect to import stuff and not abide by the law? If you buy imported stuff from a retailer the duty is already bundled into his price. So why don't you moan about that as well?
Why shouldn't you pay it? You expect to import stuff and not abide by the law? If you buy imported stuff from a retailer the duty is already bundled into his price. So why don't you moan about that as well?
20 odd years ago I bought an 8mm film (pre - video era)of the Apollo 17 mission from the USA by mail order. At the time I was living in the Irish Republic. Not only was I charged almost 100% VAT and duty, but I had to physically travel into Dublin to pay the charges and pick up the parcel. If you were living in the USA and buying stuff from elsewhere by mail order or internet, I bet you'd be paying US Customs charges too.
The customs thing was one of the better ideas of the European Community; you can not only travel over borders without being stopped, but also order goods from EU countries without having to pay VAT or customs.
I've used that quite a lot of times when ordering spares for my British vehicles.
The only downsides are the higher shipping costs and a complicated payment transfer
e.g. a computer monitor costs €9.89 within Germany and €25 international no matter if you send it 800kms from Hamburg to Munich or 60kms from Aachen to Liege
I've used that quite a lot of times when ordering spares for my British vehicles.
The only downsides are the higher shipping costs and a complicated payment transfer
e.g. a computer monitor costs €9.89 within Germany and €25 international no matter if you send it 800kms from Hamburg to Munich or 60kms from Aachen to Liege
I think you will find that the amount of duty you have to pay is dependant upon what it is you have imported. If the duty varies the price can fluctuate tremendously depending upon the interpretation of the customs and excise officers take on what it it is you have imported.
One good way around it, is to have the product purchased, labelled and made to look like a second hand product with supporting documents/invoices for a lot lower price. They will only charge you on these documents.
For example I know somebody who regularly imports V8 engines from the states, they are hand built from a selection of reconditioned and new parts yet are still $1000-$1500 in price, the guy who ships them smears old engine oil all over the engine to make it look like a cacky old pile of s*@t then sends along an invoice saying the importer has only paid $300 for it, He has succeded on every occaision to avoid paying the full whack. However, make sure you get the real documents and sales invoices sent to you seperately so if anything goes wrong you can still claim the correct money back. Also you are deceiving customs and excise which can be dodgy!!
One good way around it, is to have the product purchased, labelled and made to look like a second hand product with supporting documents/invoices for a lot lower price. They will only charge you on these documents.
For example I know somebody who regularly imports V8 engines from the states, they are hand built from a selection of reconditioned and new parts yet are still $1000-$1500 in price, the guy who ships them smears old engine oil all over the engine to make it look like a cacky old pile of s*@t then sends along an invoice saying the importer has only paid $300 for it, He has succeded on every occaision to avoid paying the full whack. However, make sure you get the real documents and sales invoices sent to you seperately so if anything goes wrong you can still claim the correct money back. Also you are deceiving customs and excise which can be dodgy!!
Bodo said: The customs thing was one of the better ideas of the European Community; you can not only travel over borders without being stopped, but also order goods from EU countries without having to pay VAT or customs.
I've used that quite a lot of times when ordering spares for my British vehicles.
The only downsides are the higher shipping costs and a complicated payment transfer
e.g. a computer monitor costs €9.89 within Germany and €25 international no matter if you send it 800kms from Hamburg to Munich or 60kms from Aachen to Liege
Bodo
You do have to pay VAT on purchases across borders within the EU. VAT is a national tax, amply demonstrated by the fact that rates of VAT are different in each member state. It's duty that is a common tax within the EU and you only pay it when you import into the Union, not on movements within member states. VAT rates are set by national governments. Duty rates are set by the Commission and are aligned with the Commission's tariff reduction offer in the GATT talks. The EU's tariff reduction programme is based in law and projected for a 5 year period.
tvrslag said: I think you will find that the amount of duty you have to pay is dependant upon what it is you have imported. If the duty varies the price can fluctuate tremendously depending upon the interpretation of the customs and excise officers take on what it it is you have imported.
One good way around it, is to have the product purchased, labelled and made to look like a second hand product with supporting documents/invoices for a lot lower price. They will only charge you on these documents.
For example I know somebody who regularly imports V8 engines from the states, they are hand built from a selection of reconditioned and new parts yet are still $1000-$1500 in price, the guy who ships them smears old engine oil all over the engine to make it look like a cacky old pile of s*@t then sends along an invoice saying the importer has only paid $300 for it, He has succeded on every occaision to avoid paying the full whack. However, make sure you get the real documents and sales invoices sent to you seperately so if anything goes wrong you can still claim the correct money back. Also you are deceiving customs and excise which can be dodgy!!
You are right that the rate of duty is determined by the product imported. The EU runs what is known as the Harmonised System of tariff classification and each imported product is classified with a number. This number is harmonised across the EU with the last few digits of the code being relevant only to the importing member state. In the UK the last two digits are known as Taric, and apply local statistics measures for imports. Classifying goods properly is covered by EU law. Incorrect classifications can result in penalties for the importer. The classifications rules are determined in law.
Be very careful about misclassifying goods, especially when there is a duty advantage to be had. Knowingly classifying goods incorrectly is an offence and the penalties are quite severe (including criminal procedings). Also, while the duty rate is determined by the product, it is applied to the transaction value of the imported goods. That is the price the importer pays (or that is payable) to the exporter/seller. So supressing a value by classifying the goods as used and not new is a second offence. Mis-valuing goods is taken very seriously.
Also, don't be fooled into thinking that seperately sending the properly valued invoices is safe. When I worked at the mailing office as a customs officer we caught many offenders this way. They'd buy something expensive, bring it home as used goods, then we'd find the invoices etc in the post. Easy as falling off a log. Your engine importing buddy already has an import profile with customs by virtue of the fact that he is a registered importer. Customs only too well know about the "used" ruse and if he is caught, they can retrace their steps in an investigation up to 7 years.
People think that smuggling this way is easy. I'm not a customs guy anymore, but when I was, catching people like this was a doddle - and also very expensive for the offender.
Go easy folks!
Angusfaldo
It is often said that the Custom guys have in many respects more powers than the police, the current policy in impounding vehilces thought to be used by smugglers (or should I say innocent people bringing back booze) is a good case in point.
As I stated at the end of my note, if caught the penalties could be quite severe, and I don't condone what this guy I know is doing....
I once looked at importing some car parts from the States, but once I'd contacted the local excise office and discovered the duty payable was 20% plus VAT the parts worked out to be more expensive than buying them here in the UK!! I think the morale is check the UK and Europe first for what you need, its much easier. The States is a last ditch effort in my view.
It is often said that the Custom guys have in many respects more powers than the police, the current policy in impounding vehilces thought to be used by smugglers (or should I say innocent people bringing back booze) is a good case in point.
As I stated at the end of my note, if caught the penalties could be quite severe, and I don't condone what this guy I know is doing....
I once looked at importing some car parts from the States, but once I'd contacted the local excise office and discovered the duty payable was 20% plus VAT the parts worked out to be more expensive than buying them here in the UK!! I think the morale is check the UK and Europe first for what you need, its much easier. The States is a last ditch effort in my view.
tvrslag said: Angusfaldo
It is often said that the Custom guys have in many respects more powers than the police, the current policy in impounding vehilces thought to be used by smugglers (or should I say innocent people bringing back booze) is a good case in point.
As I stated at the end of my note, if caught the penalties could be quite severe, and I don't condone what this guy I know is doing....
I once looked at importing some car parts from the States, but once I'd contacted the local excise office and discovered the duty payable was 20% plus VAT the parts worked out to be more expensive than buying them here in the UK!! I think the morale is check the UK and Europe first for what you need, its much easier. The States is a last ditch effort in my view.
TS
You're right, although the 20% was probably calculated with reference to what used to be known as the ready reckoner - an aggregated duty rate that also included the VAT. the duty rate on car parts is way lower than that now. I did pick up your point in your post - about not condoning it etc. I just wanted folks to realise that skinning customs is not quite as easy as it seems. Like all Gov depts they are low on manpower etc and the chance of getting caught are slim. But when they get you, they can really stuff you.
The bit about powers is somehwat of an urban myth. Since PACE came in in the 80s (and subsequent bits of law) Customs has pretty much the same criminal power base as the police. They can't enter premises without a warrant/writ of assistance etc. Where they do have an advantage is where the premises are under customs control (an airport or bonded warehouse). In those places they pretty much have free reign.
AF
I really want to have a rant about this but I am not very well informed and have had a couple of 
I am thinking of taking a holiday in the states this year and thought I might buy a couple of pairs of jeans as they are about 1/2 price. I recon if I purchased a few pairs (2 blue, 1 black etc) and brought them back in my lugage there will be no problem. But if I was to have them sent by post then the tax man would add his percentage.
I remember there was a story in the papers a while ago that Tesco wanted to buy their jeans from the US direct as they were cheaper that purchasing them through the EU, but were blocked. WTF happened to free market economy.
I have already paid tax on the money I have earned and if I decide to buy a beer and some ciggs in a bar in Spain the Tax man cant touch me so why should they try and tax me if I want to bring it home.
oversimplifying things I know but
I am thinking of taking a holiday in the states this year and thought I might buy a couple of pairs of jeans as they are about 1/2 price. I recon if I purchased a few pairs (2 blue, 1 black etc) and brought them back in my lugage there will be no problem. But if I was to have them sent by post then the tax man would add his percentage.
I remember there was a story in the papers a while ago that Tesco wanted to buy their jeans from the US direct as they were cheaper that purchasing them through the EU, but were blocked. WTF happened to free market economy.
I have already paid tax on the money I have earned and if I decide to buy a beer and some ciggs in a bar in Spain the Tax man cant touch me so why should they try and tax me if I want to bring it home.
oversimplifying things I know but
Cotty said: I really want to have a rant about this but I am not very well informed and have had a couple of
I am thinking of taking a holiday in the states this year and thought I might buy a couple of pairs of jeans as they are about 1/2 price. I recon if I purchased a few pairs (2 blue, 1 black etc) and brought them back in my lugage there will be no problem. But if I was to have them sent by post then the tax man would add his percentage.
I remember there was a story in the papers a while ago that Tesco wanted to buy their jeans from the US direct as they were cheaper that purchasing them through the EU, but were blocked. WTF happened to free market economy.
I have already paid tax on the money I have earned and if I decide to buy a beer and some ciggs in a bar in Spain the Tax man cant touch me so why should they try and tax me if I want to bring it home.
oversimplifying things I know but
Cotty
You'll be fine buying a few bits in the US so long as you don't exceed the maximul allowance for gifts. I can't remember how much it is (not that much actually) but the thing is, even if you exceed this value it doe not mean you can't bring the stuff back. You can. You're just obliged to declare it and pay import duty on it. If you're talking about half a dozen pair of jeans then I'd say you'll be fine. Much more than that and Customs will just assume you are a commercial dealer (of jeans of course
) and really give you a hard time. The thing about Tesco etc started out by being more to do with commercial contract law than anti-competition law. All the big brand names have distribution agreements with their retailers determining that the retailer can only sell to a specific geographical area. So by selling on for a destination outside his area it was a breach of contract and civil proceedings were possible. It moved on to being about anti-competition law (remember the relaxation of rules about buying cars in other member states?)
It does seem tough that you can buy and consume cheap excise-goods somewhere else in the EU. The thing is, customs duty is SOLELY about the movement of goods acrss borders. Excise duty is as well with the added issue that excise is normally due on production and movement across a border. So what creates the problem with your Spanish beer and cigs is bringing them into the UK as excisable products. You're limited to a reasonable amount for personal consumption.
Now THAT'S the issue that should attract the hate mail - bloody customs always getting it wrong when looking at the meaning of personal consumption.
AF
Angus
I'd be very interested in hearing more about this. I looked into starting an import business a few years ago. The VAT and import duty thing was all very confusing and it became clear that I'd have to use a broker. Their charges were £50 per order and then £2 per item class, plus the duty and VAT due. Fine if you're bringing in 1000 garments, but for a handful of models, comics, key-rings, t-shirts, mugs, posters, DVDs, etc. (all different item classes) on on order worth only a few hundred quid and suddenly it's not worth doing (which is why I didn't).
Is there a more cost-effective (yet still legal!) way of doing this?
I'd be very interested in hearing more about this. I looked into starting an import business a few years ago. The VAT and import duty thing was all very confusing and it became clear that I'd have to use a broker. Their charges were £50 per order and then £2 per item class, plus the duty and VAT due. Fine if you're bringing in 1000 garments, but for a handful of models, comics, key-rings, t-shirts, mugs, posters, DVDs, etc. (all different item classes) on on order worth only a few hundred quid and suddenly it's not worth doing (which is why I didn't).
Is there a more cost-effective (yet still legal!) way of doing this?
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