Test Drove a 3R Today
Discussion
Folllowing on from my question about changing from an Esprit to a Noble, I took a 3R out this morning, so here’s my thoughts:
Firstly I should say that it was damp under wheel so neither myself or the sales guy gave it full boot. However, I can go back and try it again in the dry if I want to.
Comparing it to my Esprit 350 :
a) Looks. The Esprit wins every time. The Noble has the look of a big Elise, which upsets me a tad. The Esprit shape might be 30 years old and the new shape 18 years but to me it still looks very aggressive. The Noble does not have that look.
b) Practicality : The cabin is much bigger than the Esprit, miles bigger in fact. Getting in and out of the Noble is so much easier as it does not have big sills to climb over.. The interior is, of cause, sparse, but more modern than mine. The total lack of luggage space is a negative, but as I’m short you could get a bag behind driver’s seat. The Esprit can take a couple of sets of golf clubs ( but not trolleys ), plus room in the front as well as mine has no spare wheel.
c) Driving : The best why to describe it is that the Esprit feels like you are sitting over the back wheels and the Noble that you are sitting over the front wheels. The Noble has that race car feel to it. It’s amazingly light to steer and the gear change is better. I did find it odd that with the car in neutral, the gear knob moves around like it’s not connected to anything.
d) Performance : As I said, it was damp so I did not give it full clout. It has masses of torque, in 6th I thought I was in 4th. It pulls from very low speed in the higher gears, much more than the Esprit V8. Both cars have the same power ( 350 bhp ) but of cause the Noble is a lot lighter (220kg less than mine). One thing is that mine has been on a rolling road and produced 423 horses at the rear wheels, which, if accurate, would account for the fact that I did not notice any performance difference to speak of.
So, to conclude, if I was changing from a every day car to a Noble I would of cause be amazed at the Noble, but changing from an Esprit V8 ( with maybe 420+ bhp ), well, it just aint that different. I suppose both are mid engined sports cars with about the same power, so to me it did not feel that much different. So, for the moment I’ve concluded I’ll stick with what I’ve got. I like the idea of a different car after 4 Esprits over the last 14 years, but I feel my Sport 350 has that special something but the Noble just has not got that something extra. However, I’m not ruling it out, so maybe I’ll think again in 6 months time. I shall have to see.
Adrian
Firstly I should say that it was damp under wheel so neither myself or the sales guy gave it full boot. However, I can go back and try it again in the dry if I want to.
Comparing it to my Esprit 350 :
a) Looks. The Esprit wins every time. The Noble has the look of a big Elise, which upsets me a tad. The Esprit shape might be 30 years old and the new shape 18 years but to me it still looks very aggressive. The Noble does not have that look.
b) Practicality : The cabin is much bigger than the Esprit, miles bigger in fact. Getting in and out of the Noble is so much easier as it does not have big sills to climb over.. The interior is, of cause, sparse, but more modern than mine. The total lack of luggage space is a negative, but as I’m short you could get a bag behind driver’s seat. The Esprit can take a couple of sets of golf clubs ( but not trolleys ), plus room in the front as well as mine has no spare wheel.
c) Driving : The best why to describe it is that the Esprit feels like you are sitting over the back wheels and the Noble that you are sitting over the front wheels. The Noble has that race car feel to it. It’s amazingly light to steer and the gear change is better. I did find it odd that with the car in neutral, the gear knob moves around like it’s not connected to anything.
d) Performance : As I said, it was damp so I did not give it full clout. It has masses of torque, in 6th I thought I was in 4th. It pulls from very low speed in the higher gears, much more than the Esprit V8. Both cars have the same power ( 350 bhp ) but of cause the Noble is a lot lighter (220kg less than mine). One thing is that mine has been on a rolling road and produced 423 horses at the rear wheels, which, if accurate, would account for the fact that I did not notice any performance difference to speak of.
So, to conclude, if I was changing from a every day car to a Noble I would of cause be amazed at the Noble, but changing from an Esprit V8 ( with maybe 420+ bhp ), well, it just aint that different. I suppose both are mid engined sports cars with about the same power, so to me it did not feel that much different. So, for the moment I’ve concluded I’ll stick with what I’ve got. I like the idea of a different car after 4 Esprits over the last 14 years, but I feel my Sport 350 has that special something but the Noble just has not got that something extra. However, I’m not ruling it out, so maybe I’ll think again in 6 months time. I shall have to see.
Adrian
gadgeroonie said:
Snuffy
so its not a yes or a no ?
does that mean i don't have to eat my front splitter yet ?
Go back and drive it in the dry and give it full beans - that way you will get a feel for its acceleration in first, second, third and its handling on the limit
so its not a yes or a no ?
does that mean i don't have to eat my front splitter yet ?
Go back and drive it in the dry and give it full beans - that way you will get a feel for its acceleration in first, second, third and its handling on the limit
I'm uming are arhing at the moment but swaying towards a no. I may well try it again, when it's dry cus I'll have to go back to pick my broken lotus from the dealer !!! You may have to sharpen your teeth I'm afraid and get your knife and fork out
adrian w said:
If you really think your car has 423 bhp you should have tried an M400, then the comparason would have been more like for like.
I'm certainly not convinced the rolling road was very accurate. It does sound an awful lot more than 350, just for changing the standard cats for race cats and taking the rear box off.
These rolling roads do seem to have a habit of overstating power. Maybe it's to make the owners fell better ? But I'd much rather it be right than overstated.
At the moment, an M400 is a little out of my price league I'm afraid.
Snuffy - what make of Rolling road did you test you car on ?
was it able to estimate a flywheel figure ?
My business is Rolling roads and yes some of them do have rather optimistic results
my make of Dyno is nicknamed the ego crusher - its not there to provide spurious results and make customers feel good - its there to tell the truth
in my experience the noble 3.0 R does not actually have 350 bhp - nearer 330
was it able to estimate a flywheel figure ?
My business is Rolling roads and yes some of them do have rather optimistic results
my make of Dyno is nicknamed the ego crusher - its not there to provide spurious results and make customers feel good - its there to tell the truth
in my experience the noble 3.0 R does not actually have 350 bhp - nearer 330
gadgeroonie said:
Snuffy - what make of Rolling road did you test you car on ?
was it able to estimate a flywheel figure ?
My business is Rolling roads and yes some of them do have rather optimistic results
my make of Dyno is nicknamed the ego crusher - its not there to provide spurious results and make customers feel good - its there to tell the truth
in my experience the noble 3.0 R does not actually have 350 bhp - nearer 330
was it able to estimate a flywheel figure ?
My business is Rolling roads and yes some of them do have rather optimistic results
my make of Dyno is nicknamed the ego crusher - its not there to provide spurious results and make customers feel good - its there to tell the truth
in my experience the noble 3.0 R does not actually have 350 bhp - nearer 330
I don't know but I shall try and find out. The figures it came up with was 350 at the fly wheel, so, I'm told, that comes out to 423 at the wheels. On the day we had 3 V8s but non of them was standard which was a pity because it would have given a bench mark.
nickytwohats said:
There's a track dy on the 26th - if the Esprit is fixed go there give yours some beans and see if the Noble boys keep up with you...
But I'm looking at the whole ownership thing, not just which car goes round a track the fastest. The Noble may well go round a track faster than an Esprit V8 but to me....
Anyway, my plan is to wait maybe 6 months and then think about it again, so, I might get one then, or I might not.
Another thing is that you really don't know if you want a car from a test drive. For example, my last car was another Esprit, a GT3 ( 2 litre turbo ). I went out in my V8 and was not sure either way. But, I bought it and within a few days I realised the V8 knocks the 4 pot Esprits into a cocked hat ( whatever that actually means ). Bit at the time I was not so sure, so it's difficult to know until you have owned a car for a while. Ho, hum..
snuffy said:
gadgeroonie said:
Snuffy - what make of Rolling road did you test you car on ?
was it able to estimate a flywheel figure ?
My business is Rolling roads and yes some of them do have rather optimistic results
my make of Dyno is nicknamed the ego crusher - its not there to provide spurious results and make customers feel good - its there to tell the truth
in my experience the noble 3.0 R does not actually have 350 bhp - nearer 330
was it able to estimate a flywheel figure ?
My business is Rolling roads and yes some of them do have rather optimistic results
my make of Dyno is nicknamed the ego crusher - its not there to provide spurious results and make customers feel good - its there to tell the truth
in my experience the noble 3.0 R does not actually have 350 bhp - nearer 330
I don't know but I shall try and find out. The figures it came up with was 350 at the fly wheel, so, I'm told, that comes out to 423 at the wheels. On the day we had 3 V8s but non of them was standard which was a pity because it would have given a bench mark.
it doesn't work that way. Wheel HP is measured (at least that is the claim), but BHP is only estimated based on assumptions about drivetrain losses.snuffy said:
Ah, yes, now I remember. Okay the, 350 at the wheels, so 423 at the flywheel.
+73bhp, or 20.8% losses... Not sure if that is correct. Here's the dyno plot from my M400
The solid green one is the at-the-wheels at 385bhp, which equates to 436bhp at the flywheel, or +51bhp, or 13.2% losses.
On that basis I think an M400 would feel significantly different to your 350. Very nice car the 350 though
I'd take it out in the dry for about an hour, you should then start to see the difference.
J
Phil - I've tested loads of nobles as have all my customers. We have never seen a noble make the quoted power
even modified m400's barely make over 400 bhp
which Dyno did you get tested on
cars making 440 plus bhp at John nobles are only really 400 bhp cars
remember its power at the wheels that is important - no rolling road can measure a fly figure - only estimate it ( and some of the methods of estimating leave a lot to be desired )
even modified m400's barely make over 400 bhp
which Dyno did you get tested on
cars making 440 plus bhp at John nobles are only really 400 bhp cars
remember its power at the wheels that is important - no rolling road can measure a fly figure - only estimate it ( and some of the methods of estimating leave a lot to be desired )
gadgeroonie said:
even modified m400's barely make over 400 bhp
At the wheels yes, but then every car in the world is quoted on flywheel so you have to make an estimate. Not sure what you are saying given I've posted my M400 that shows it was spot on it's spec given 13% losses which is about right, and my previous 2.5 was also on the nose with JNMs calculation.
J
joust said:
gadgeroonie said:
even modified m400's barely make over 400 bhp
At the wheels yes, but then every car in the world is quoted on flywheel so you have to make an estimate. Not sure what you are saying given I've posted my M400 that shows it was spot on it's spec given 13% losses which is about right, and my previous 2.5 was also on the nose with JNMs calculation.
J
I think you were lucky Joust. My car struggled to beat 370bhp to start with. Got to over 430bhp by the time Trevor sorted it though. I think a good M400 makes around 400bhp stock.
snuffy said:
gadgeroonie said:
Snuffy - what make of Rolling road did you test you car on ?
was it able to estimate a flywheel figure ?
My business is Rolling roads and yes some of them do have rather optimistic results
my make of Dyno is nicknamed the ego crusher - its not there to provide spurious results and make customers feel good - its there to tell the truth
in my experience the noble 3.0 R does not actually have 350 bhp - nearer 330
was it able to estimate a flywheel figure ?
My business is Rolling roads and yes some of them do have rather optimistic results
my make of Dyno is nicknamed the ego crusher - its not there to provide spurious results and make customers feel good - its there to tell the truth
in my experience the noble 3.0 R does not actually have 350 bhp - nearer 330
I don't know but I shall try and find out. The figures it came up with was 350 at the fly wheel, so, I'm told, that comes out to 423 at the wheels. On the day we had 3 V8s but non of them was standard which was a pity because it would have given a bench mark.
I think you may have these figures the wrong way round, AFAIK the power at the wheels is always less than @ the fly due to power loss through the transmission. If it was 350bhp at the wheels then that is as Lotus quoted!!!
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