Cayman S and Carrera 2 S back to back drive, but C4s?
Discussion
Went in to OPC a few days ago to test a Cayman S (to compare to Z4M) and thought it would be a good idea to test the 997 C2S as well (just to see how much it had changed since 996).
Cayman was fun but needed to be nailed to sound right and get the blood flowing. Carrera S just did the biz from moment I left the dealership and it only had the standard exhaust (which left me wondering whether it's worth paying for the sports exhaust).
So, now going to test the 997 C4S, before putting down some hard earned. Before I do and start trying to make sense of which model (2 or 4), options and colours to go for, I'd be grateful for views on the wisdom of parting with another £5k for C4s over C2s. It was interesting that the dealer said the wait time for a new c4s is less than a C2s by some way. At the moment, I'm inclined to go for C2S as it was simply awesome, but will keep an open mind about C4s before driving it.
Cayman was fun but needed to be nailed to sound right and get the blood flowing. Carrera S just did the biz from moment I left the dealership and it only had the standard exhaust (which left me wondering whether it's worth paying for the sports exhaust).
So, now going to test the 997 C4S, before putting down some hard earned. Before I do and start trying to make sense of which model (2 or 4), options and colours to go for, I'd be grateful for views on the wisdom of parting with another £5k for C4s over C2s. It was interesting that the dealer said the wait time for a new c4s is less than a C2s by some way. At the moment, I'm inclined to go for C2S as it was simply awesome, but will keep an open mind about C4s before driving it.
I back to backed a 2S and a 4S (even the same colour) and IMHO to spend the extra on the 4S made no sense to me. I really struggled to make out the fatter haunches of the 4S (the only visual clue) and in terms of driving the 2S felt fractionally quicker and the handling up to 7/10ths (which is as far as would go on the public road) was fractionally sharper in the 2S, although the extra weight of the 4wd on the front end of the 4S reduced the characteristic front end lightness.
Ultimately the 2S was so assured the 4S seemed a waste of money unless you regularly get snow or drive like a spanner in the wet.
and the sports exhaust is worth every penny
With the 996, I would always go for the 4S as the slightly less sharp handling is outweighed by the looks being 10 times better over the C2 - again IMHO
With the 997 Porsche have chosen to wipe out the visual premium of the 4S to a near invisible (to me) 44mm fatter arse. I would say this is the reason why, unlike the 996, it is not the most popular model and not any handling differences that 99% of purchasers would never care about (lets face for some bizarre reason lots of them order tips too)
Ultimately the 2S was so assured the 4S seemed a waste of money unless you regularly get snow or drive like a spanner in the wet.
and the sports exhaust is worth every penny
With the 996, I would always go for the 4S as the slightly less sharp handling is outweighed by the looks being 10 times better over the C2 - again IMHO
With the 997 Porsche have chosen to wipe out the visual premium of the 4S to a near invisible (to me) 44mm fatter arse. I would say this is the reason why, unlike the 996, it is not the most popular model and not any handling differences that 99% of purchasers would never care about (lets face for some bizarre reason lots of them order tips too)
Edited by Adam B on Tuesday 8th August 11:17
While I have some sympathy with Adam's comment that the C2S and C4S are visually very similar (certainly compared to the equivalent 996 models). Side by side it is possible to detect the wider rear haunches on the 4-wheel drive model which do look good (but look even better when viewed through the door mirrors!!). Aside from the obvious, you also get the 'brake booster', which I don't think is currently on the C2S.
As the 4-wheel drive system is 5% / 95% in normal use, then I think the car is effectievly rear wheel drive until you need to some help from the front. I've had no problems with excessive understeer and as expected, stability into and out of corners is unbeatable, even in poor weather.
I guess you'd expect to see maybe £2,500 of the £5k premium back at re-sale time ??
Currently the 4S is extremely rare in comparison with the 2S, which may have a positive impact on residuals for the 4-wheel drive model.....
In no way am I dissappointed with my choice, but I don;t I would have been with a C2S either - whichever you choose, you're getting a fabulous car
Oh and yes, the PSE is defnitiely worth the extra money !!
Sidicks
As the 4-wheel drive system is 5% / 95% in normal use, then I think the car is effectievly rear wheel drive until you need to some help from the front. I've had no problems with excessive understeer and as expected, stability into and out of corners is unbeatable, even in poor weather.
I guess you'd expect to see maybe £2,500 of the £5k premium back at re-sale time ??
Currently the 4S is extremely rare in comparison with the 2S, which may have a positive impact on residuals for the 4-wheel drive model.....
In no way am I dissappointed with my choice, but I don;t I would have been with a C2S either - whichever you choose, you're getting a fabulous car
Oh and yes, the PSE is defnitiely worth the extra money !!
Sidicks
Adam B said:
I back to backed a 2S and a 4S (even the same colour) and IMHO to spend the extra on the 4S made no sense to me. I really struggled to make out the fatter haunches of the 4S (the only visual clue) and in terms of driving the 2S felt fractionally quicker and the handling up to 7/10ths (which is as far as would go on the public road) was fractionally sharper in the 2S, although the extra weight of the 4wd on the front end of the 4S reduced the characteristic front end lightness.
Ultimately the 2S was so assured the 4S seemed a waste of money unless you regularly get snow or drive like a spanner in the wet.
and the sports exhaust is worth every penny
With the 996, I would always go for the 4S as the slightly less sharp handling is outweighed by the looks being 10 times better over the C2 - again IMHO
With the 997 Porsche have chosen to wipe out the visual premium of the 4S to a near invisible (to me) 44mm fatter arse. I would say this is the reason why, unlike the 996, it is not the most popular model and not any handling differences that 99% of purchasers would never care about (lets face for some bizarre reason lots of them order tips too)
Ultimately the 2S was so assured the 4S seemed a waste of money unless you regularly get snow or drive like a spanner in the wet.
and the sports exhaust is worth every penny
With the 996, I would always go for the 4S as the slightly less sharp handling is outweighed by the looks being 10 times better over the C2 - again IMHO
With the 997 Porsche have chosen to wipe out the visual premium of the 4S to a near invisible (to me) 44mm fatter arse. I would say this is the reason why, unlike the 996, it is not the most popular model and not any handling differences that 99% of purchasers would never care about (lets face for some bizarre reason lots of them order tips too)
Edited by Adam B on Tuesday 8th August 11:17
Agree with every word!
However, IMO the 997 C4S has a lot more steering feel than the 996 variant - so much so that driving wise I don't think there's any downside to the 997 C4.
But equally, the 997 C2 is so good, that spending an extra 5 grand to get a slightly heavier car with less luggage space would only seem wothwhile if you really need 4wd.
The whole issue for me at least as whether to get C4 or C2 in the 997 variant falls to one thing and one thing alone.
The steering feels much nicer in the C2S than the C4S.
To be honest, unless you drive on the slippery stuff a lot in europe I can see no advantage to the 4WD system at all. The 2WD has awesome grip and does not experience any understeer either. Certainly not at on the road speeds anyway...
So, for others - they might think that the extra £5k is worth it for looks alone. The 4S is noticeably wider and as Sidicks says especially when looking at the door mirrors.
For me - I think the C2S is one of the best Porsches for a long long time.
The steering feels much nicer in the C2S than the C4S.
To be honest, unless you drive on the slippery stuff a lot in europe I can see no advantage to the 4WD system at all. The 2WD has awesome grip and does not experience any understeer either. Certainly not at on the road speeds anyway...
So, for others - they might think that the extra £5k is worth it for looks alone. The 4S is noticeably wider and as Sidicks says especially when looking at the door mirrors.
For me - I think the C2S is one of the best Porsches for a long long time.
I'd agree - my C2S has a remarkable amount of grip and, more importantly, when my talent runs out (all too easily) the car gives loads of feedback. I also tried a C4S and TBH found it very similar in feel (mabey a touch less 'floaty' at the front?) but given the £'s premium and the fact that I feel the wider body looks a little flash, for me the C2S won. I've also got the -20mm suspension and would reccommend you trying it. Enjoy your decision-making!!
I would confirm the earlier observation about the exhaust - I've had a C2S for coming up for 12 months and recently added a TUBE - the difference is stunning - off to the Alps with the car next week and can't wait to extend it/hear the wail in the mountains
I have had a C4 in an earlier model but with the 997 I really wasn't tempted - maybe as others have observed I may have looked more closely if I lived above the snowline but cosmetically it just didn't have the visual impact of earlier 4's and the feel of the C2S is already superb - at the end of the day its your money so go for what works for you
I have had a C4 in an earlier model but with the 997 I really wasn't tempted - maybe as others have observed I may have looked more closely if I lived above the snowline but cosmetically it just didn't have the visual impact of earlier 4's and the feel of the C2S is already superb - at the end of the day its your money so go for what works for you
I picked up my 2s in June.
It is a fantastic car.
I went for the sports exhaust (this is a must)
also the short shift gearbox option
and the fixed -20mm suspension.
the ride and handling is superb
Colour Midnight Blue with 19" Sports design wheels
You will never regret purchasing the rear wheel only
motor.
It is a fantastic car.
I went for the sports exhaust (this is a must)
also the short shift gearbox option
and the fixed -20mm suspension.
the ride and handling is superb
Colour Midnight Blue with 19" Sports design wheels
You will never regret purchasing the rear wheel only
motor.
Similar experince to those above.
The C2S has so much feel and I found the C4S less fun. So unless you really can notice the extra width of the C4S and prefer the looks I would go for the C2S and save some money.
I also have the -20mm and much prefer the way it drives over the standard PASM model which has a very jumpy front end on it, that feels like it is bobbing all over the place as soon as you hit a bumpy road.
The C2S has so much feel and I found the C4S less fun. So unless you really can notice the extra width of the C4S and prefer the looks I would go for the C2S and save some money.
I also have the -20mm and much prefer the way it drives over the standard PASM model which has a very jumpy front end on it, that feels like it is bobbing all over the place as soon as you hit a bumpy road.
jjr1 said:
I also have the -20mm and much prefer the way it drives over the standard PASM model which has a very jumpy front end on it, that feels like it is bobbing all over the place as soon as you hit a bumpy road.
Not on the C4S it doesn't..............I find the combination of normal mode for general driving and Sport mode for when I'm pushing on, the perfect combination.............
sidicks
Thanks for feedback. I took out the C4S and then the C2S back to back this pm. Road conditions were perfect / dry, so it was virtually impossible to tell between the 2 in terms of drive, except c4s felt a bit more assured when throwing it into bends, but this may well have been psychological!
After agonising, I'm gonna go with the C4S, simply because I like the slightly flared rear end (again, I may have exaggerated it in my mind); it's a very close call because handling wise there was nothing in it for me (in the dry). The car that I tested had the PSE and it sounded great so I may well go for that too. Odd thing is that I could swear that the exhaust on the C4S (with the PSE) sounded quieter, in normal mode, than the exhaust on the C2S without PSE - was that just my imagination?
What kind of flexibility can I expect from the OPC on the recommended retail price of a new C4S?
Thanks again.
After agonising, I'm gonna go with the C4S, simply because I like the slightly flared rear end (again, I may have exaggerated it in my mind); it's a very close call because handling wise there was nothing in it for me (in the dry). The car that I tested had the PSE and it sounded great so I may well go for that too. Odd thing is that I could swear that the exhaust on the C4S (with the PSE) sounded quieter, in normal mode, than the exhaust on the C2S without PSE - was that just my imagination?
What kind of flexibility can I expect from the OPC on the recommended retail price of a new C4S?
Thanks again.
razor said:
Thanks for feedback. I took out the C4S and then the C2S back to back this pm. Road conditions were perfect / dry, so it was virtually impossible to tell between the 2 in terms of drive, except c4s felt a bit more assured when throwing it into bends, but this may well have been psychological!
After agonising, I'm gonna go with the C4S, simply because I like the slightly flared rear end (again, I may have exaggerated it in my mind); it's a very close call because handling wise there was nothing in it for me (in the dry). The car that I tested had the PSE and it sounded great so I may well go for that too. Odd thing is that I could swear that the exhaust on the C4S (with the PSE) sounded quieter, in normal mode, than the exhaust on the C2S without PSE - was that just my imagination?
What kind of flexibility can I expect from the OPC on the recommended retail price of a new C4S?
Thanks again.
After agonising, I'm gonna go with the C4S, simply because I like the slightly flared rear end (again, I may have exaggerated it in my mind); it's a very close call because handling wise there was nothing in it for me (in the dry). The car that I tested had the PSE and it sounded great so I may well go for that too. Odd thing is that I could swear that the exhaust on the C4S (with the PSE) sounded quieter, in normal mode, than the exhaust on the C2S without PSE - was that just my imagination?
What kind of flexibility can I expect from the OPC on the recommended retail price of a new C4S?
Thanks again.
You'd be very lucky to get anything off the retail price of a new car. However, if you're happy to have a 'nearly new' and can get your ideal spec then they are usually happy to cut deals with these.
As a guide you'll see quite a few less than 5k miles cars on the Porsche website for sale - don't be put off by these as they are usually ex management cars. Porsche provide tons of management cars to their personnel and their policy is to get rid of these at 7k miles. Usually high spec and very well looked after. Beats the waiting list as well so definitely worth a look.
Even if there's no discount, I think that I'm gonna take a deep breath & go for new.
The options that I'm quite sure about are: GT silver, 19" carrera classic wheels, chrono, nav, phone, bose & cd 6 disk, sun roof, dials in black. Also, the wife will be using it from time to time, so I'm gonna get park assist and cruise control.
I'm not sure about the seats - electrically adjustable or adaptive sports? My first choice would be the sports seats, but we want to be able to put an Isofix child seat in the front passenger seat and I wonder whether the side bolster on the sports would become annoying on a long drive. Would the lack of sports seats hurt the residuals of an "s"?
Also, the PSE is very tempting, but have they toned down the sound of the exhaust for the normal setting? The standard exhausts on the 2 C2s that I have drived in the past week sounded more raucous. Has anyone noticed that?
Sidicks, what overall spec did you go for?
The options that I'm quite sure about are: GT silver, 19" carrera classic wheels, chrono, nav, phone, bose & cd 6 disk, sun roof, dials in black. Also, the wife will be using it from time to time, so I'm gonna get park assist and cruise control.
I'm not sure about the seats - electrically adjustable or adaptive sports? My first choice would be the sports seats, but we want to be able to put an Isofix child seat in the front passenger seat and I wonder whether the side bolster on the sports would become annoying on a long drive. Would the lack of sports seats hurt the residuals of an "s"?
Also, the PSE is very tempting, but have they toned down the sound of the exhaust for the normal setting? The standard exhausts on the 2 C2s that I have drived in the past week sounded more raucous. Has anyone noticed that?
Sidicks, what overall spec did you go for?
razor said:
Sidicks, what overall spec did you go for?
Chosen spec was as follows:
- Atlas Grey Metallic paint
- Black leather interior
- Parking sensors
- Rains sensors / Auto headlights
- Tyre pressure monitor
- Home-link
- Cruise control
- Adaptive sports seats
- Heated seats
- Sat Nav
- CD autochanger
- Sports Exhaust
- Sports shifter
- Fatter spoke sports steering wheel
Note the lack of Sports Chrono...........If you have Sports Chrono and the Porsche Sports Exhaust, then you can't turn the exhaust on without reducing the intervention of PSM.
To my mind the PSE is perfect - sounds awesome when turned on, but with the ability for 'quiet' mode when it's early in the morning or late at night and I don't want to wake the neighbours. Although having said that my still moans about how noisy the car is early in the morning when I leave for work !!
Sidicks
That's an interesting point about the PSE / Sports chrono combination, which I hadn't really appreciated. I suppose it's only a problem if you want to have the PSE triggered when tearing round bumpy b-roads?
I tested a C2S with black dials and liked the look. I think it was the chronograph on the dash which affected my thinking there - I think it looks pretty odd, looked better in black (with the black leather) but would prefer it if you could get sports chrono without the chrono (obviously not possible)!
I'm gonna go back to the OPC tomorrow and iron out a few points - seeing the cars should also help make up my mind on things like the seats.
Appreciate all the pointers.
I tested a C2S with black dials and liked the look. I think it was the chronograph on the dash which affected my thinking there - I think it looks pretty odd, looked better in black (with the black leather) but would prefer it if you could get sports chrono without the chrono (obviously not possible)!
I'm gonna go back to the OPC tomorrow and iron out a few points - seeing the cars should also help make up my mind on things like the seats.
Appreciate all the pointers.
razor said:
That's an interesting point about the PSE / Sports chrono combination, which I hadn't really appreciated. I suppose it's only a problem if you want to have the PSE triggered when tearing round bumpy b-roads?
.
.
My scenario of concern was any winter driving on icy roads - I'd probbaly enjoy the sound of the PSE but would definitely wish to have all electronic stability / traction aids available to help me if I got into trouble !!
Sidicks
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