Blown engine, need Motorsport Engine Builders pls
Discussion
My engine let go at the weekend, nice hole in my block. I concerned about taking it back to where it was built.
I need to find another v.good engine builder who is au-fait with VW engines to a degree. Basic repair needed is
1. Knife edge the crank
2. lighten and balance bottom end (obviously it needs a new one)
3. Source forged pistons and alloy rods and fit em.
4. The need to be able to map luminition engine management system, and be ok with Jenvy throttle bodies.
I need someone good, no idiot, preferably with Motorsport pedigree.
Recommendations desperately needed. I don't really want to take it back where it was built (long story).
Thanks in advance.
I need to find another v.good engine builder who is au-fait with VW engines to a degree. Basic repair needed is
1. Knife edge the crank
2. lighten and balance bottom end (obviously it needs a new one)
3. Source forged pistons and alloy rods and fit em.
4. The need to be able to map luminition engine management system, and be ok with Jenvy throttle bodies.
I need someone good, no idiot, preferably with Motorsport pedigree.
Recommendations desperately needed. I don't really want to take it back where it was built (long story).
Thanks in advance.
Just a question. Why are you using "alloy" conrods?
If they are what i think they are, that could well be the reason for the failure.
Alloy rods have a definite fatigue life, very short compared to a steel equivalent.
These alloy rods are totally unsuitable for a road going car of any descrption.
A better bet would be a set of rods from Arrow Precision, same as the one in my golf Mk1.
Or maybe a set of Titanium ones from Arrow would be your style?
Apologies in case i have the wrong end of the rod...er stick.
>> Edited by deltaf on Tuesday 18th February 11:46
If they are what i think they are, that could well be the reason for the failure.
Alloy rods have a definite fatigue life, very short compared to a steel equivalent.
These alloy rods are totally unsuitable for a road going car of any descrption.
A better bet would be a set of rods from Arrow Precision, same as the one in my golf Mk1.
Or maybe a set of Titanium ones from Arrow would be your style?
Apologies in case i have the wrong end of the rod...er stick.
>> Edited by deltaf on Tuesday 18th February 11:46
I'm not an engine guru at all. Before the engine blew it was running on completely stock internals. People have been advising me to uprate the internals to cope with the 8000rpm of the engine. One of the things that was suggested I use alloy rods, do they really have that much of a shorter life span. I thought the whole point was they were stronger.
Sorry if I'm talking garbage, as I say, engine's are not really my area of experise.
So who built your engine then?
Sorry if I'm talking garbage, as I say, engine's are not really my area of experise.
So who built your engine then?
Ahh i see.
Yeah alloy rods are ONLY for drag racing use, they are incredibly strong, but they arent much use for the road, because they dont have a long fatigue life, something that absolutley is required for a road car.
My engine was built and prepped entirely by myself.
The machine work was contracted out.
If youve lost a conrod as i think you may have, then its unlikely the failure was due to the rod itself(if it was unmodified) and is usually due to a rod bolt letting go.
For the engine you have, id go for either of the two rods previously mentioned from Arrow at coventry.
I had mine from them, not cheap, but boy are they something!
Rated to 12,000 rpm.....well beyond what im going to, but its nice to have the capacity on overun when shifting down.
Why dont you wish to return it to the builder? And who were/are they?
Also, although you may not be a "guru" lol, its perfectly feasible to build the engine yourself, if you use a little common sense.
If you need help , give us a call.
Yeah alloy rods are ONLY for drag racing use, they are incredibly strong, but they arent much use for the road, because they dont have a long fatigue life, something that absolutley is required for a road car.
My engine was built and prepped entirely by myself.
The machine work was contracted out.
If youve lost a conrod as i think you may have, then its unlikely the failure was due to the rod itself(if it was unmodified) and is usually due to a rod bolt letting go.
For the engine you have, id go for either of the two rods previously mentioned from Arrow at coventry.
I had mine from them, not cheap, but boy are they something!
Rated to 12,000 rpm.....well beyond what im going to, but its nice to have the capacity on overun when shifting down.
Why dont you wish to return it to the builder? And who were/are they?
Also, although you may not be a "guru" lol, its perfectly feasible to build the engine yourself, if you use a little common sense.
If you need help , give us a call.
Once owned a MK1 GTI 'bout 8 years ago that had had the full package from GIT Engineering. 136 bhp at the wheels (rolling road) and you could spin them in 3rd. Utterly fantastic car and selling it was one of the stupidest things I have ever done!
www.bbrgti.demon.co.uk/gtimain.htm
Thoroughly reccommend.
www.bbrgti.demon.co.uk/gtimain.htm
Thoroughly reccommend.
Ok, I'm in London, but will take the car anywhere. Obviously it has to be trailored as it's seized at the moment. By all means make suggestions, it was actually built by someone about 250miles away, so don't regard distance a real problem. It's a VW 2L 16v on jenvy throttle bodies, luminition map, ported/flowed head, and cams.
I honestly don't think I have the knowledge, tools, time, space, or equipment to re-build the engine myself, I really don't know the first thing about them.
I will be using the Arrows rods you recommended, it will give me piece of mind if nothing else.
I don't want to take it back to where it was built cause I can't believe I'm being charged for an engine re-build on something that lasted 6mths and about 3000miles. Got no guarantee with the engine, fair enough it's a race engine, but even so. I know if I kick up a fuss and the co. agrees to do it for cost price, it'll sit there for a good year waiting for them to do it, cause there's no benefit to them in finishing the car.
Thanks in advance people.
>> Edited by david_h on Tuesday 18th February 12:59
I honestly don't think I have the knowledge, tools, time, space, or equipment to re-build the engine myself, I really don't know the first thing about them.
I will be using the Arrows rods you recommended, it will give me piece of mind if nothing else.
I don't want to take it back to where it was built cause I can't believe I'm being charged for an engine re-build on something that lasted 6mths and about 3000miles. Got no guarantee with the engine, fair enough it's a race engine, but even so. I know if I kick up a fuss and the co. agrees to do it for cost price, it'll sit there for a good year waiting for them to do it, cause there's no benefit to them in finishing the car.
Thanks in advance people.
>> Edited by david_h on Tuesday 18th February 12:59
From your profile I assume the current engine was built by Grant Motorsport?
What actually failed on it to cause the hole in the block? I've had several Golf engines fail, almost all of them because of oil surge in the sump (even with baffling) - oil pick up goes dry, 5 secs later the big end bearings start to seize, crank twists, con rods snap. Is this what happned?
If you need high revs then go for steel rods - but they are very expensive.
Anyway - engine builders;
Vulcan Engineering in Ealing - built my first 1.8 race engine, it was bullet proof.
Scholar Engines in Suffolk - built my last three 1.6 engines, problems with oil surge and other niggles but know what they're doing
Holbay in Suffolk - far cheaper than London, not sure of their experience with VW
None of these places will set up the throttle bodies and ignition - all the mapping you have should remain the same anyway, just put the newly built engine back in the car and get it rolling road tuned? Unless you change the cam, valve size etc nothing dramatic should need changing.
I tried a bigger throttle body in my Mk1 racer (www.spnracing.com), we tried it against a standard body in B2B runs on a rolling road, it made no difference whatsoever. But maybe you've improved the breathing elsewhere first, I haven't.
What actually failed on it to cause the hole in the block? I've had several Golf engines fail, almost all of them because of oil surge in the sump (even with baffling) - oil pick up goes dry, 5 secs later the big end bearings start to seize, crank twists, con rods snap. Is this what happned?
If you need high revs then go for steel rods - but they are very expensive.
Anyway - engine builders;
Vulcan Engineering in Ealing - built my first 1.8 race engine, it was bullet proof.
Scholar Engines in Suffolk - built my last three 1.6 engines, problems with oil surge and other niggles but know what they're doing
Holbay in Suffolk - far cheaper than London, not sure of their experience with VW
None of these places will set up the throttle bodies and ignition - all the mapping you have should remain the same anyway, just put the newly built engine back in the car and get it rolling road tuned? Unless you change the cam, valve size etc nothing dramatic should need changing.
I tried a bigger throttle body in my Mk1 racer (www.spnracing.com), we tried it against a standard body in B2B runs on a rolling road, it made no difference whatsoever. But maybe you've improved the breathing elsewhere first, I haven't.
spnracing said: From your profile I assume the current engine was built by Grant Motorsport?
What actually failed on it to cause the hole in the block? I've had several Golf engines fail, almost all of them because of oil surge in the sump (even with baffling) - oil pick up goes dry, 5 secs later the big end bearings start to seize, crank twists, con rods snap. Is this what happned?
If you need high revs then go for steel rods - but they are very expensive.
Anyway - engine builders;
Vulcan Engineering in Ealing - built my first 1.8 race engine, it was bullet proof.
Scholar Engines in Suffolk - built my last three 1.6 engines, problems with oil surge and other niggles but know what they're doing
Holbay in Suffolk - far cheaper than London, not sure of their experience with VW
None of these places will set up the throttle bodies and ignition - all the mapping you have should remain the same anyway, just put the newly built engine back in the car and get it rolling road tuned? Unless you change the cam, valve size etc nothing dramatic should need changing.
I tried a bigger throttle body in my Mk1 racer (www.spnracing.com), we tried it against a standard body in B2B runs on a rolling road, it made no difference whatsoever. But maybe you've improved the breathing elsewhere first, I haven't.
Your assumption would be correct.
Thanks for the recommendations I will talk to them. You're right about the maping etc, this is all just a bolt on job as it's fine at the moment,perhaps a rolling road tune-up will be required but that's it. I've been looking at the cost of uprating the internals and it's shockingly expensive, forged pistons are like £150 each!!
I'm almost certain it was an oil/oil pump related problem. The oil was a bit low on Sat (below the min level) and the tappets were rattling. so I topped it up to max again on Sunday. Ran it for at least 90minutes below around 5000rpm, no silly things, sounded/performed ok. 1st time I booted it on the M25 it just didn't sound right, I thought the exhaust was making a noise (I've got a dodgy heatshield and it rattles), queue bit of rattling then big bang, puff of smoke out the back, lots of clanking, obviously clutch in and coast to hard shoulder.
I will give those people a call and see what they say, thanks, useful to know.
spnracing said: Who did the luminition mapping and installation? Do you mind if I ask how much this cost?
Same people did the map and installation. Luminition support is absolutely terrible, my loom is faulty and bodged atm, waiting for a new one for 3mths now. Go with DTA, more expensive but customer support is second to none, and a lot of people use it now so well recognised.
the whole lot came at an all in price, including 280mm brakes, braided hoses, new g/box with Quaiffe diff, new clutch, it was a 100% package. Thousands and thousands of pounds.
If you just want to buy the throttle bodies and a DTA map, bill Brockbank does them check out www.badger5.co.uk he's a really good guy. Has a jetta that goes like absolute stink.
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