Classic 911 choice
Discussion
I spotted a '88 911 clubsport for sale today and am actually really tempted to arrange a test drive and look into this.
I've always steered clear of 911's as it would have to be pre 964 and although the SC 4-speed is probably my favorite they're a little on the gutless side (power wise, never driven one), and an early RS is way out of my budget. A replica is not an option.
Could I have peoples opinions on the earler car's, what's available, how they perform what sort of cost they come in at.
I'm not all that keen on turbo's due to the lag, added warm up/ cool down cycles and the irrasistable urge to tune them though I could make an exeption for the right one.
Ideally I'd be looking for a car I will keep for life and would like quite a raw one, even caged with buckets that requires ear plugs to drive.
For (really) the right car I could stretch to about £30k. But it would have to be really special to make me part company with the RB5.
Cheers
Dave
I've always steered clear of 911's as it would have to be pre 964 and although the SC 4-speed is probably my favorite they're a little on the gutless side (power wise, never driven one), and an early RS is way out of my budget. A replica is not an option.
Could I have peoples opinions on the earler car's, what's available, how they perform what sort of cost they come in at.
I'm not all that keen on turbo's due to the lag, added warm up/ cool down cycles and the irrasistable urge to tune them though I could make an exeption for the right one.
Ideally I'd be looking for a car I will keep for life and would like quite a raw one, even caged with buckets that requires ear plugs to drive.
For (really) the right car I could stretch to about £30k. But it would have to be really special to make me part company with the RB5.
Cheers
Dave
The 88/89 Club Sport is one of my all time favourites - a real cracker. Prior to that I've always been a fan of the 2.4E. In fact there is a guy selling an interesting one as a finishable project on www.ddk-online.com
You really need to go to next week's Porsche Festival at Eynsham Hall, check out all the various options, etc. and talk to the experts.
You really need to go to next week's Porsche Festival at Eynsham Hall, check out all the various options, etc. and talk to the experts.
Dave, I appreciate it may just be a looks thing, but a 964RS for 30k is a hell of a car; there were marked improvements over the earlier 911s, inc 3.2 Clubsports etc. Maybe Paul (clubsport) can lend his more experienced views to this... I just can't see the point of maybe spending 30k on a dynamically inferior car (apart from the looks/personal taste).
Compared to a 996 3.6 Carrera 2, the 930 feels way more powerful; but it has 16PS less. A large part of the subjective joy comes from the engine's characteristics and the feelings the controls and the ride give.
Still, the 996 should be the better everyday-driver, and is probably cheaper to run too.
Still, the 996 should be the better everyday-driver, and is probably cheaper to run too.
Thanks for the replies.
A little more background - I've owned my RB5 for 4 years now, and am completely happy with it, after spending thousands on engine suspension and brakes, it drives to my mind almost perfectly (only needs one or 2 small tweaks to finish completely) and anything I change too will be a step down given my budget.
I considered changing to a 996 C2 at the start of the year, not my thing really. To refined and needed more grunt, a GT3's out of the price range unfortunately.
As for the 964RS, another car I have a lot of respect for and considered a 964 when buying the RB. Ultimately, as good as it is it's just another performance car. Just looking (and listening) to a nice 930 is amazing. Your point exactly! which is why only a classic 911 would do. I'm really looking for alternatives to the clubsport.
Would like to see a pic of a 2.4, I'm not sure if it's exactly as I think in my head.
Dave
A little more background - I've owned my RB5 for 4 years now, and am completely happy with it, after spending thousands on engine suspension and brakes, it drives to my mind almost perfectly (only needs one or 2 small tweaks to finish completely) and anything I change too will be a step down given my budget.
I considered changing to a 996 C2 at the start of the year, not my thing really. To refined and needed more grunt, a GT3's out of the price range unfortunately.
As for the 964RS, another car I have a lot of respect for and considered a 964 when buying the RB. Ultimately, as good as it is it's just another performance car. Just looking (and listening) to a nice 930 is amazing. Your point exactly! which is why only a classic 911 would do. I'm really looking for alternatives to the clubsport.
Would like to see a pic of a 2.4, I'm not sure if it's exactly as I think in my head.
Dave
RB5_245 said:
Ultimately, as good as it is it's just another performance car. Just looking (and listening) to a nice 930 is amazing. Your point exactly! which is why only a classic 911 would do. I'm really looking for alternatives to the clubsport.
964RSs are as special as any 930 straight out of the box. They're not just 'another performance car' like even a new 997S, or arguably a 996GT3... maybe you need to live with one to appreciate their X factor. Then experience one that has been tweaked in a similar way to your RB5... come to Silverstone on the 24th and francisb will show you what a 911 should sound like; a decatted 964RS with j pipe at 7200rpm sounds better than any 930 and the flames out of the back can be just as orange
But yes, they are a bit compromised on the road on stock or cup suspension. And you do get more olde world character with an earlier 911. But you'll be misguided to think the 930 is anything other than a rough diamond compared to the finely hewn 964RS. It would be like me saying 'the RB5 is just another performance car, whereas a tuned Supra is where's it's all at...' LOL
RB5_245 said:
I spotted a '88 911 clubsport for sale today and am actually really tempted to arrange a test drive and look into this.
I've always steered clear of 911's as it would have to be pre 964 and although the SC 4-speed is probably my favorite they're a little on the gutless side (power wise, never driven one), and an early RS is way out of my budget. A replica is not an option.
Could I have peoples opinions on the earler car's, what's available, how they perform what sort of cost they come in at.
I'm not all that keen on turbo's due to the lag, added warm up/ cool down cycles and the irrasistable urge to tune them though I could make an exeption for the right one.
Ideally I'd be looking for a car I will keep for life and would like quite a raw one, even caged with buckets that requires ear plugs to drive.
For (really) the right car I could stretch to about £30k. But it would have to be really special to make me part company with the RB5.
Cheers
Dave
I've always steered clear of 911's as it would have to be pre 964 and although the SC 4-speed is probably my favorite they're a little on the gutless side (power wise, never driven one), and an early RS is way out of my budget. A replica is not an option.
Could I have peoples opinions on the earler car's, what's available, how they perform what sort of cost they come in at.
I'm not all that keen on turbo's due to the lag, added warm up/ cool down cycles and the irrasistable urge to tune them though I could make an exeption for the right one.
Ideally I'd be looking for a car I will keep for life and would like quite a raw one, even caged with buckets that requires ear plugs to drive.
For (really) the right car I could stretch to about £30k. But it would have to be really special to make me part company with the RB5.
Cheers
Dave
A few points.
Firstly to my knowledge i may be wrong but all Sc's are 5 speed, you may be thinking of very early 911's with the 901 box, or maybe the early 3.0 turbo.
Why pre 964? If you want to drive it every day wouldn't you like a car with the looks, sound and character of an early 911 but a few creature comforts such as a good heater, and power steering around town?
No 911 is gutless from an early 2.0 up to the latest Gt2, some have more power but all are fun to drive, thats the nature of the car. If you do go for an early car the one to avoid is a 2.0,2.2 or 2.4 T they are a bit numb. But don't say something is gutless when you haven't driven it, Horsepower is not everything, my 964 regularly embarrases Japanese cars with far more HP, the chassis and torque have big big effects on the performance of the car in the real world.
£30k is far too much for an sc, in reality its too much for a decent turbo, or even a 964, hell you should be able to get a cheap GT3 for that sort of money.
And I'm sorry unless your a very special kind of person you will go mad in a totally track orientated earplug wearing car as an everyday proposition, get something fun and taut and enjoy it on track and off.
I stand to be corrected on a lot of things. I know a little about a lot so to speak and porsche isn't my specialist subject.
£30k is an absolute maximum, and I wouldn't expect to pay that for any 930. I hope that's not how it comes accross. If my ideal car is 20k, or even 10 then that's fine. Someone sugested buying a 10k car and spending the same again on it to make a real nice one.
My car's not a daily driving commuter, it's more a toy and a passion, so that refinement is not really needed... though a good heater would be handy.
Ideally it has to be an alternative to the cs, after a quick read up i'm eating my words about the 964RS, though side by side with the cs the looks arn't quite up there. I'm going to look into that further as it's a nice thought.
£30k is an absolute maximum, and I wouldn't expect to pay that for any 930. I hope that's not how it comes accross. If my ideal car is 20k, or even 10 then that's fine. Someone sugested buying a 10k car and spending the same again on it to make a real nice one.
My car's not a daily driving commuter, it's more a toy and a passion, so that refinement is not really needed... though a good heater would be handy.
Ideally it has to be an alternative to the cs, after a quick read up i'm eating my words about the 964RS, though side by side with the cs the looks arn't quite up there. I'm going to look into that further as it's a nice thought.
If you weren't so far away I'd offer you a run in mine.
Even the most soft looking 911 is a blast to drive, assuming your a driver, Mine is a cabrio (prepares to be nailed to a cross and burnt as a heretic) but with a few very subtle tweaks here and there is a well focused driving tool (the cars the tool not me).
Seriously you will have fun in almost any 911, and have the great benefit that it is a reliable nice car to drive for the boring stuff too.
My advice is to go for something not too lairy at first, chances are you will love it, and spend a large amount of money on driver training, you will notice more of an improvement in driving and lap times than any power increase or trick suspension will give you. Then you have the bonus of being able to set your car up as you want.
A 964 c2 would give you a good powerful car as a very good start to learning to drive 911 properly, without spending silly money. If you spend £15k you will have a nice car.
But I really really must emphasise the training side of things, a 911 is a very different drive to a subaru, I speak as having driven a variety of cars, including subaru's.
Even the most soft looking 911 is a blast to drive, assuming your a driver, Mine is a cabrio (prepares to be nailed to a cross and burnt as a heretic) but with a few very subtle tweaks here and there is a well focused driving tool (the cars the tool not me).
Seriously you will have fun in almost any 911, and have the great benefit that it is a reliable nice car to drive for the boring stuff too.
My advice is to go for something not too lairy at first, chances are you will love it, and spend a large amount of money on driver training, you will notice more of an improvement in driving and lap times than any power increase or trick suspension will give you. Then you have the bonus of being able to set your car up as you want.
A 964 c2 would give you a good powerful car as a very good start to learning to drive 911 properly, without spending silly money. If you spend £15k you will have a nice car.
But I really really must emphasise the training side of things, a 911 is a very different drive to a subaru, I speak as having driven a variety of cars, including subaru's.
Hi
Things to note
the 911 will not corner better
the 911 will not accelerate faster
the 911 will not be cheaper to run
the OLDER 911 can have interesting handling!!!
HOWEVER
any 911 will sound great with a sports exhaust
air cooled i believe sound the best
you are buying into a piece of history and emotion
I think scoobs in general have got a bit plentiful now and which wood you rather blat across europe in?
BTW this is from someone whos had 2 imprezzas and on my 3rd porsche
Things to note
the 911 will not corner better
the 911 will not accelerate faster
the 911 will not be cheaper to run
the OLDER 911 can have interesting handling!!!
HOWEVER
any 911 will sound great with a sports exhaust
air cooled i believe sound the best
you are buying into a piece of history and emotion
I think scoobs in general have got a bit plentiful now and which wood you rather blat across europe in?
BTW this is from someone whos had 2 imprezzas and on my 3rd porsche
wildoliver said:
My advice is to go for something not too lairy at first, chances are you will love it, and spend a large amount of money on driver training, you will notice more of an improvement in driving and lap times than any power increase or trick suspension will give you. Then you have the bonus of being able to set your car up as you want.
That does sound like some pretty sound advice.
Thanks for everyones comments, they've been noted. I'm going to do a bit more reading into the history of 911's then and check out what sort of prices things are going for.
Dave
jvr said:
Hi
Things to note
the 911 will not corner better
the 911 will not accelerate faster
the 911 will not be cheaper to run
the OLDER 911 can have interesting handling!!!
HOWEVER
any 911 will sound great with a sports exhaust
air cooled i believe sound the best
you are buying into a piece of history and emotion
I think scoobs in general have got a bit plentiful now and which wood you rather blat across europe in?
BTW this is from someone whos had 2 imprezzas and on my 3rd porsche
Things to note
the 911 will not corner better
the 911 will not accelerate faster
the 911 will not be cheaper to run
the OLDER 911 can have interesting handling!!!
HOWEVER
any 911 will sound great with a sports exhaust
air cooled i believe sound the best
you are buying into a piece of history and emotion
I think scoobs in general have got a bit plentiful now and which wood you rather blat across europe in?
BTW this is from someone whos had 2 imprezzas and on my 3rd porsche
I'm sorry I dont agree with some of your comments.
The handling is interesting, but they do handle amazingly, if you can drive.........
Acceleration is also excellent, not many scoobies do 0-60 in the 5's straight from the box.
I do agree on the sound, and the air cooled comment, and the uniqueness factor.
Don't think I'm having a go, I just feel differently.
I actually have no intentions of buying a classic porsche to go faster than my scoob. It's not going to happen as that would be way over my budget.
The impreza is not far shy of 400bhp, has AP 6pot brakes, AST adjustable coilovers and uprated just about every other bar/link/mount in the suspension.
As a comparison to my impreza, I can't afford to, and dont want to make a classic porche that fast. Somewhere along the line I realised that it's not the lap time that counts it's how much fun you have doing it. I can just imagine doing lap after lap of the nurburgring in a 911, whereas i'm always worried something is about to break in the scoob. I think one should be just about quick enough to keep me happy.
The impreza is not far shy of 400bhp, has AP 6pot brakes, AST adjustable coilovers and uprated just about every other bar/link/mount in the suspension.
As a comparison to my impreza, I can't afford to, and dont want to make a classic porche that fast. Somewhere along the line I realised that it's not the lap time that counts it's how much fun you have doing it. I can just imagine doing lap after lap of the nurburgring in a 911, whereas i'm always worried something is about to break in the scoob. I think one should be just about quick enough to keep me happy.
Nice problem to have,,,,,thing is if budget is tight and you are new to 911..you will find it hard to justify the extra £10k premium of a 3.2 clubsport over a 3.2 sport spec car of the same year...less is more...etc...
964RS is a good buy for <£30k.....but this is for a lhd car...don't know if that suits???
no doubt the 3.2 clubby you looked at (Gmund???) was rhd.....a decent 964RS in rhd is nearer £40k,,,lesser cars which may need some £££ spending are nearer £35k...not as if there is much choice as they are rare.
I would suggest buying a decent G50 '87-89 911 Carrera 3.2 sport.....should cost circa £15k for an ok car...usual criteria...not crashed, service history...re-saleable mileage etc.....this will give you a great introduction to 911 motoring, posssibly the best fun/£££ available and see if you like it.
I had one of these as my first 911 and even though I have been fortunate enough to own and drive more exotic 911 since, I still have some of my best 911 memories from owning this car...good luck in your search
964RS is a good buy for <£30k.....but this is for a lhd car...don't know if that suits???
no doubt the 3.2 clubby you looked at (Gmund???) was rhd.....a decent 964RS in rhd is nearer £40k,,,lesser cars which may need some £££ spending are nearer £35k...not as if there is much choice as they are rare.
I would suggest buying a decent G50 '87-89 911 Carrera 3.2 sport.....should cost circa £15k for an ok car...usual criteria...not crashed, service history...re-saleable mileage etc.....this will give you a great introduction to 911 motoring, posssibly the best fun/£££ available and see if you like it.
I had one of these as my first 911 and even though I have been fortunate enough to own and drive more exotic 911 since, I still have some of my best 911 memories from owning this car...good luck in your search
RB5_245 said:
Somewhere along the line I realised that it's not the lap time that counts it's how much fun you have doing it.
True, but it's always nice to overtake stuff! RB5_245 said:
I can just imagine doing lap after lap of the nurburgring in a 911, whereas i'm always worried something is about to break in the scoob.
I'm pretty sure you'll worry about that with a 911 as well.lol, I have to steer clear of turbo's.. doctors orders I have a slight addiction to power/boost.
Clubsport, you're right. That's the very car.
I really need to take one for a drive and see what I think. Performance/£ isn't top of the list. I think that clubsport is about the best looking 911 I've ever seen.
Is there a few of them around? Probably don't come up for sale all that often? There's also a lhd 964rs for sale right now at 26k.
Does anyone have more details of this porsche show? website or the like. I think I really should go if it's on at a weekend.
Cheers
Clubsport, you're right. That's the very car.
I really need to take one for a drive and see what I think. Performance/£ isn't top of the list. I think that clubsport is about the best looking 911 I've ever seen.
Is there a few of them around? Probably don't come up for sale all that often? There's also a lhd 964rs for sale right now at 26k.
Does anyone have more details of this porsche show? website or the like. I think I really should go if it's on at a weekend.
Cheers
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