Discussion
An acquaintance of mine has had an accident. The problem is he does not hold a full licence - only a provisional. He was in his bosses car, not under L plates or indeed under tuition (altho they could probably say he was I guess)
His boss told him he needed practice and so took him out for a bit. I don't know what Insurance his boss has, but in principle would fully comp. insurance cover someone else?
Also does the lack of "L" plates (owner of car in with him) nullify the insurance?
It isn't me, (honestly) but my flatmate's boyfriend and she wants to know what might happen to him.
Any advice would be most appreciated.
Many Thanks
Phil
His boss told him he needed practice and so took him out for a bit. I don't know what Insurance his boss has, but in principle would fully comp. insurance cover someone else?
Also does the lack of "L" plates (owner of car in with him) nullify the insurance?
It isn't me, (honestly) but my flatmate's boyfriend and she wants to know what might happen to him.
Any advice would be most appreciated.
Many Thanks
Phil
An acquaintance of mine has had an accident. The problem is he does not hold a full licence - only a provisional. He was in his bosses car, not under L plates or indeed under tuition (altho they could probably say he was I guess)
His boss told him he needed practice and so took him out for a bit. I don't know what Insurance his boss has, but in principle would fully comp. insurance cover someone else?
Also does the lack of "L" plates (owner of car in with him) nullify the insurance?
It isn't me, (honestly) but my flatmate's boyfriend and she wants to know what might happen to him.
Any advice would be most appreciated.
Many Thanks
Phil
If his boss had a licence to drive the vehicle and had held said licence for at least three years, his boss can supervise him so no probs there.
IF (and it's a big if) his boss has an 'any driver' policy then your mate MIGHT be able to get off the no-insurance rap - providing that the any driver policy allowed L-drivers, which is rare these days. If not, or his boss had named drivers only, then he'll be summonsed for driving without third party insurance, 6-8 points and a means-tested fine (probably no less than £150). His boss will probably also get a summons for allowing a person to drive without insurance, same points, mean-tested fine.
Don't know if driving without L-plates is a specific, endorsable offence or if it comes under the 'driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence' category. If it's the latter that'll be another 3-6 points plus fine. Again, his boss is also due a summons for allowing the offence, same points again.
Which raises a question: if your mate was a newly-qualified driver, under the Road Traffic (New Drivers) Act 1995 he's be liable for summary disqualification and re-test as he'd have 6 points within the first two years of driving. I have no idea how this works with him being not-yet-qualified - the BiB might be able to shed more light...
Thanks for the help so far. So basically a BIG "if" regarding Boss's insurance but otherwise a shafting for them both?
Fair enough, shouldn't have been so bloody daft I reckon.
(This chap is REALLY not my favourite person, but I told my flatmate I would try to help for her sake - personally I hope he gets it right between the eyes!)(Shame about his boss though)
Thanks again
Fair enough, shouldn't have been so bloody daft I reckon.
(This chap is REALLY not my favourite person, but I told my flatmate I would try to help for her sake - personally I hope he gets it right between the eyes!)(Shame about his boss though)
Thanks again
outlaw said: best way is contact bloke quick and all 3 say boss was driving
then prob solved
for all both cars fixed
fast no points for any one
Then hope that it goes away without any complications because if there were in a situation like that, then big doo doo for the conspiracy and the perversion of justice.
Your friends boyfriends boss is an idiot. He knew that the chap did not have an full licence so he commits the offence of aiding and abetting the offence of failing to comply with the conditions of a licence on at least two counts.
1. For the unsupervised bit. (endorsable 3 points)
2. For the lack of 'L' plates. (endorsable 3 points
Both parties are liable for the same sentencing at court.
The insurance will not become invalid as long as the driver at the time has or has had a licence to drive (This includes a provisional licence).
And if the driver complied with any restriction on age laid down in the policy (that he was over 25 years old if that is a condition for any driver)
If a third party is involved who is not known to the Boss and the driver, to embroil them into a conspiracy about defrauding the insurance company and avoiding any possible prosecution for driving and driving licence offences calls for a great deal of confidence in a judgement on whether the unknown person can be trusted to keep his/her mouth shut if something does not quite go to plan (i.e. the Insurance company get wind of a rat somewhere and refuse to pay)
All very dodgy ground and not recommended if they do not want sleepless nights.
>> Edited by madcop on Friday 21st February 08:18
1. For the unsupervised bit. (endorsable 3 points)
2. For the lack of 'L' plates. (endorsable 3 points
Both parties are liable for the same sentencing at court.
The insurance will not become invalid as long as the driver at the time has or has had a licence to drive (This includes a provisional licence).
And if the driver complied with any restriction on age laid down in the policy (that he was over 25 years old if that is a condition for any driver)
If a third party is involved who is not known to the Boss and the driver, to embroil them into a conspiracy about defrauding the insurance company and avoiding any possible prosecution for driving and driving licence offences calls for a great deal of confidence in a judgement on whether the unknown person can be trusted to keep his/her mouth shut if something does not quite go to plan (i.e. the Insurance company get wind of a rat somewhere and refuse to pay)
All very dodgy ground and not recommended if they do not want sleepless nights.
>> Edited by madcop on Friday 21st February 08:18
Thanks Madcop - They have informed the Insurance company - although I am not too sure what story they told. If the Insurance company does, as you say, smell a rat - obviously they will not pay - but are they obliged to/will they inform the BiB of the incident?
Thanks again for the help.
Phil
Thanks again for the help.
Phil
loaf said: Which raises a question: if your mate was a newly-qualified driver, under the Road Traffic (New Drivers) Act 1995 he's be liable for summary disqualification and re-test as he'd have 6 points within the first two years of driving. I have no idea how this works with him being not-yet-qualified - the BiB might be able to shed more light...
He would probably be disqualified (you do not need a licence to be disqualified form driving) and told that he will be disqaulified until test passed after the initial stautory ban he received had elapsed.
Works like this.
1. Gets a 6 month ban which means he cannot drive at all.
2. Even though he is disqualified until test passed, he can get a provisional licence and drive under those conditions ('L' plates, supervised etc) after the intial 6 month ban has elapsed until he passes the test.
If he is caught driving and is not complying with the conditions of his provisional licence then the ofence is Driving whilst disqualified
mannginger said: Thanks Madcop - They have informed the Insurance company - although I am not too sure what story they told. If the Insurance company does, as you say, smell a rat - obviously they will not pay - but are they obliged to/will they inform the BiB of the incident?
Thanks again for the help.
Phil
It depends on the extent of the fraud on the insurance company to have the damage repaired. If they do so and then find out having paid for the repairs, they may well decide to inform the Police to investigate and charge them before a court.
If they find out prior to any repairs being undertaken, then they will simply refuse to do so and it is unlikely they will inform the Police of what has happened. They are not obliged to inform the Police in either case but dould do so.
>> Edited by madcop on Friday 21st February 08:40
Quite right (of course 
) MC. If the accident is not reported to the Police then neither person in the illegal driving situation will be prosecuted for anything. IE How can they be done if the Police don't know?
The insurance is a different matter and it may be better to just cough up out of own pockets to pay for the damage. Mind you, if the insurance company pay out then they have got away with it.
Worst case in these situations is when it is the other persons fault and they start to fight it (as they often do these days
) and through fighting it smell a rat and start investigate, then call in the Police etc.
Edited to say that of course if the insurance company cough up and latter find out that there was fraud then
>> Edited by icamm on Friday 21st February 15:56
) MC. If the accident is not reported to the Police then neither person in the illegal driving situation will be prosecuted for anything. IE How can they be done if the Police don't know? The insurance is a different matter and it may be better to just cough up out of own pockets to pay for the damage. Mind you, if the insurance company pay out then they have got away with it.
Worst case in these situations is when it is the other persons fault and they start to fight it (as they often do these days
) and through fighting it smell a rat and start investigate, then call in the Police etc. Edited to say that of course if the insurance company cough up and latter find out that there was fraud then
>> Edited by icamm on Friday 21st February 15:56
icamm said: Quite right (of course
You are absolutely right. How long is it though before someone tells them if things don't happen to bubble along as smoothly as they would like?
The insurance is a different matter and it may be better to just cough up out of own pockets to pay for the damage. Mind you, if the insurance company pay out then they have got away with it.
In this case it would appear to be the best allround situation that any of the offending parties could hope for. They are in the wrong and therefore must pay to the complete satisfaction of the innocent party (which could get very expensive) or face possible legal consequences.
Worst case in these situations is when it is the other persons fault and they start to fight it (as they often do these days
Because someone is never really happy unless they happen to gain at least some advantage out of situations like this.
Edited to say that of course if the insurance company cough up and latter find out that there was fraud then
You are definately not wrong on that account
>> Edited by madcop on Friday 21st February 23:18
Similar thing happened to a mate of mine about ten years ago when we'd recently passed our tests.
Said mate had been to the pub, and to avoid drink-driving, thought it a good idea
to get someone on a provisional licence to drive home. You can guess the rest...
Needless to say, my mate was left without a licence or a car for a very long time. He worked for Norwich Union, too, and still had trouble getting insurance.
Can't remember what happened to the learner driver, but it wasn't much in comparison to the owner of the car.
So whatever you (they) do, try to keep the police out of it.
Said mate had been to the pub, and to avoid drink-driving, thought it a good idea
to get someone on a provisional licence to drive home. You can guess the rest... Needless to say, my mate was left without a licence or a car for a very long time. He worked for Norwich Union, too, and still had trouble getting insurance.
Can't remember what happened to the learner driver, but it wasn't much in comparison to the owner of the car.
So whatever you (they) do, try to keep the police out of it.
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