Mallory Testing
Discussion
Well I think it went OK but I haven't got anything to gauge it against, initially I was aiming to get down to around 1.02......
We went out in 3 sessions, first session to learn the track and find out why the cabin was filling with blue smoke coming from a wiring loom, so not much time to get to know the track!!! Fastest lap was 1.06.079 but very incosistent.
With the confidence of knowig the car wouldn't burst into flames, second session was split into two thanks to a red flag, part 1 fastest lap 1.01.86. At which I had Colin look at the steering rack as the steering wheel was off centre at 10 o'clock coming down the start/finish straight after misaliging at the hairpin, and then off at 2 o'clock after Gerards. He couldn't find anything wrong at that point so I went back out and put in some failry consistent laps with fastest being 1.00.24.
We gave the steering a full check over as I knew that something was definately wrong. It turns out the the steering rack has lateral play of around 20mm, so the full lock at the hairpin and the drift around Gerards with all the forces on the sterring at these two points was causing the misalignment. It's quite concerning driving in a straight line when the wheel is off at 30 degrees either side. Even worse when drifting as I have no idea which direction the wheels are pointig in.
Anyway knowing that there was no serious problem (like the rack about to fall apart!) we started the final session with dodgy steering but the car set up with the left rear tyre pressure softer than the others. After warming the tyres I put in around 20-22 laps all within 1.00.00 and 101.8 before the car was suffering from lack of power!!!! The times were dropping away to 1.04.23 four laps later. Gutted, we'd had a good session and now a problem. Turns out we needed fuel!!! So I had just enough time to re-fuel and give it some for a couple of laps to make sure there was no problem. We were OK.
Level and spanner checks proved the car in good order with the exception of the alternator and of course the play in the steering rack.
We now need to find a replacement alternator which is neither Ford nor Tasmin original and make up some now brackets/bushes for the steering rack so that I can determine which direction I'm going in when the power goes down!!! So nothing serious but work to be done. I'm also considering an adjustment of the right rear shocks to harden the suspension at that point to try and get some drive at the Apex of the hairpin. Currently the right rear wheel isn't doing anything at that point and not a great deal at Gerards. Still not sure of the quickest way around the hairpin so if I'm gonna take off any more time I reckon that's where it will come from.
Thoughts and comments welcomed.......
We went out in 3 sessions, first session to learn the track and find out why the cabin was filling with blue smoke coming from a wiring loom, so not much time to get to know the track!!! Fastest lap was 1.06.079 but very incosistent.
With the confidence of knowig the car wouldn't burst into flames, second session was split into two thanks to a red flag, part 1 fastest lap 1.01.86. At which I had Colin look at the steering rack as the steering wheel was off centre at 10 o'clock coming down the start/finish straight after misaliging at the hairpin, and then off at 2 o'clock after Gerards. He couldn't find anything wrong at that point so I went back out and put in some failry consistent laps with fastest being 1.00.24.
We gave the steering a full check over as I knew that something was definately wrong. It turns out the the steering rack has lateral play of around 20mm, so the full lock at the hairpin and the drift around Gerards with all the forces on the sterring at these two points was causing the misalignment. It's quite concerning driving in a straight line when the wheel is off at 30 degrees either side. Even worse when drifting as I have no idea which direction the wheels are pointig in.
Anyway knowing that there was no serious problem (like the rack about to fall apart!) we started the final session with dodgy steering but the car set up with the left rear tyre pressure softer than the others. After warming the tyres I put in around 20-22 laps all within 1.00.00 and 101.8 before the car was suffering from lack of power!!!! The times were dropping away to 1.04.23 four laps later. Gutted, we'd had a good session and now a problem. Turns out we needed fuel!!! So I had just enough time to re-fuel and give it some for a couple of laps to make sure there was no problem. We were OK.
Level and spanner checks proved the car in good order with the exception of the alternator and of course the play in the steering rack.
We now need to find a replacement alternator which is neither Ford nor Tasmin original and make up some now brackets/bushes for the steering rack so that I can determine which direction I'm going in when the power goes down!!! So nothing serious but work to be done. I'm also considering an adjustment of the right rear shocks to harden the suspension at that point to try and get some drive at the Apex of the hairpin. Currently the right rear wheel isn't doing anything at that point and not a great deal at Gerards. Still not sure of the quickest way around the hairpin so if I'm gonna take off any more time I reckon that's where it will come from.
Thoughts and comments welcomed.......
As its only your 2nd time in the car ( a car thats not run in 3-4 years) and 1st time in the car at a traditional circuit I dont hink thats bad at all..
going back to 2002 ( when there were 16 tasmins on the grid!!!)
The Times went from 55.7 to 1:01.5 your car is the same spec as then with the only change being the slicks, which will only start to make a difference once you've got some more seat time..
So managing a consistant 1:00 is a good start. Ok there is some time to find, but if your showing consistant times then you have somthing solid to build on, the steering rack will not have helped either... Its a fairly common problem on the tamins as the original racks are rubber mounted and move in the bracket. My tas had a bracket welded to the rack and was solid mounted to stop that.
I never got the steeing wheel angle issue your getting, but that maybe down to the higher grip levels of the slicks. I always noticed the issue due to wandering under braking
still an easy enough fix..
Knowing your car the alternator is probably a birse competition one or somthing expensive like that
just charge the batt up first !!!!
mallory is an interesting circuit as there is in effect only 3 corners 4 if you include devils elbow. On the face of it very simple, and easy to drive, but i think to find that last bit of speed actually quite difficult. there are lots of places to loose time and nowhere to make it back up.
too slow through gerrards and you'll easily loose 10mph down the straight, slow out of the hairpin and you loose time all the way to gerrards..
Gerrards is a big ballsy corner and untill your confident in the car and yourself you'll always hold back a bit, as you can have a very big accident there !!!(
Iain )
Just remember to have the car straight as you come over the bump out of the corner, and avoid running wide onto the grass on the exit, but it you are going to run wide let it run and dont try to get it back on track too quickly ( see Cliff last season for what happens if you do :upsidedownsmilie
From what you've said, your on the right lines () so just get it on track and enjoy, you've no pressure to perform in only your second race so just keep it neat and tidy and bring it home.... All that of course goes out of the window if your running wheel to wheel with Howard and fighting for the Class C win ave im .....
G
going back to 2002 ( when there were 16 tasmins on the grid!!!)
The Times went from 55.7 to 1:01.5 your car is the same spec as then with the only change being the slicks, which will only start to make a difference once you've got some more seat time..
So managing a consistant 1:00 is a good start. Ok there is some time to find, but if your showing consistant times then you have somthing solid to build on, the steering rack will not have helped either... Its a fairly common problem on the tamins as the original racks are rubber mounted and move in the bracket. My tas had a bracket welded to the rack and was solid mounted to stop that.
I never got the steeing wheel angle issue your getting, but that maybe down to the higher grip levels of the slicks. I always noticed the issue due to wandering under braking
still an easy enough fix.. Knowing your car the alternator is probably a birse competition one or somthing expensive like that
just charge the batt up first !!!! mallory is an interesting circuit as there is in effect only 3 corners 4 if you include devils elbow. On the face of it very simple, and easy to drive, but i think to find that last bit of speed actually quite difficult. there are lots of places to loose time and nowhere to make it back up.
too slow through gerrards and you'll easily loose 10mph down the straight, slow out of the hairpin and you loose time all the way to gerrards..
Gerrards is a big ballsy corner and untill your confident in the car and yourself you'll always hold back a bit, as you can have a very big accident there !!!(
Iain ) Just remember to have the car straight as you come over the bump out of the corner, and avoid running wide onto the grass on the exit, but it you are going to run wide let it run and dont try to get it back on track too quickly ( see Cliff last season for what happens if you do :upsidedownsmilie
From what you've said, your on the right lines (
) so just get it on track and enjoy, you've no pressure to perform in only your second race so just keep it neat and tidy and bring it home.... All that of course goes out of the window if your running wheel to wheel with Howard and fighting for the Class C win ave im ..... G
Edited by Graham on Thursday 17th August 11:37
You rang m'lud??? Hi Mark
Sounds like you had a productive day.
By the way - if you are getting oversteer on the exit to a corner then you don't want to be stiffening the rear of the car - quite the opposite.
You need to assess the symptoms in a bit more detail - what is the car doing - over/understeer and in which part of the corner - entry/mid/exit? Are you trying to get on the throttle before you are unwinding steering lock?
Have a careful think before you start making changes to the car!
Regards
Andy
Sounds like you had a productive day.
By the way - if you are getting oversteer on the exit to a corner then you don't want to be stiffening the rear of the car - quite the opposite.
You need to assess the symptoms in a bit more detail - what is the car doing - over/understeer and in which part of the corner - entry/mid/exit? Are you trying to get on the throttle before you are unwinding steering lock?
Have a careful think before you start making changes to the car!
Regards
Andy
Andy, thanks for replying.
I'm not sure the best method for taking the hairpin, I found myself mostly trying to bring the back end in on the exit, probably as a result from trying to get on the power too soon, so I tried different approaches (and can't really put them into words!):
Turning in early with a fairly high entry speed, making an early(ish) Apex and running fairly wide, altho not using the exit kerb. The problem with that approach is that it seems an age before I can get the wheels in line and the power down again as there's still a fairly tight turn as the track becomes grass! I'm so slow at this point that I'm struggling for power up the hill towards Devil's Elbow. The benefit is that the car is more level/stable at turn in as the camber is at its smallest.
My other tact was to take the approach very wide (right at the outside of the track) and almost go past the hairpin onto the cambered section before dropping back down to a tighter Apex, which resulted in getting much closer to the wall, being in line sooner and a higher exit speed giving me a better climb towards the Elbow.
I guess the second option relates more to the classic slow in, fast out and would be my preferred route. My thoughts on different suspension setup between left and right rear are to try and get right side involved a little more in driving/powering the car if I'm coming in high from the camber so sharply with all the weight on the left side. Similar situation exiting Gerards I guess(?)
Does this make sense? I might just be completely wrong anyway and as Andy says I should probably leave alone and just get on with improving my lines and skills in general before cofusing things. Fair point, taken well!!
I'm not sure the best method for taking the hairpin, I found myself mostly trying to bring the back end in on the exit, probably as a result from trying to get on the power too soon, so I tried different approaches (and can't really put them into words!):
Turning in early with a fairly high entry speed, making an early(ish) Apex and running fairly wide, altho not using the exit kerb. The problem with that approach is that it seems an age before I can get the wheels in line and the power down again as there's still a fairly tight turn as the track becomes grass! I'm so slow at this point that I'm struggling for power up the hill towards Devil's Elbow. The benefit is that the car is more level/stable at turn in as the camber is at its smallest.
My other tact was to take the approach very wide (right at the outside of the track) and almost go past the hairpin onto the cambered section before dropping back down to a tighter Apex, which resulted in getting much closer to the wall, being in line sooner and a higher exit speed giving me a better climb towards the Elbow.
I guess the second option relates more to the classic slow in, fast out and would be my preferred route. My thoughts on different suspension setup between left and right rear are to try and get right side involved a little more in driving/powering the car if I'm coming in high from the camber so sharply with all the weight on the left side. Similar situation exiting Gerards I guess(?)
Does this make sense? I might just be completely wrong anyway and as Andy says I should probably leave alone and just get on with improving my lines and skills in general before cofusing things. Fair point, taken well!!
Edited by No.25 on Thursday 17th August 14:13
I think Id second the not changing anything on the car yet approach. Unless there is an obvious problem to fix (i.e. rack movment or a brake imbalance etc), you'll learn more with a consistant setup for now.
The hairpin is always going to be a compromise, and in the race will be complicated by other cars lapping / racing you.
Id concern yourself more with Gerrards and the lake Esses thats where you'll make the biggest difference to lap times
G
The hairpin is always going to be a compromise, and in the race will be complicated by other cars lapping / racing you.
Id concern yourself more with Gerrards and the lake Esses thats where you'll make the biggest difference to lap times
G
HEY!!! Who said anything about lapping??!! 
I've never been to Mallory so I can't comment on specific corners. As a general rule of thumb, if the car is displaying similar unwanted characteristics in a number of corners then you may need to think about making a change. If it is just one corner but it feels fine everywhere else, its probably you not the car!
Stiffening a corner is going to result in less weight transfer to that corner and therefore probably less grip - not more!
Stiffening a corner is going to result in less weight transfer to that corner and therefore probably less grip - not more!
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