The £150,000.00 Carrera GT
Discussion
OK, now I have your attention...
There isn't one that's hit this level of depreciation, yet...
My question is when do you think there will be? Having seen a few for sale over the last couple of months at the £249K mark at only a couple of years old, I'm saving a few pennies for 2008 (and doing my best not to buy something else in between!)
There isn't one that's hit this level of depreciation, yet...
My question is when do you think there will be? Having seen a few for sale over the last couple of months at the £249K mark at only a couple of years old, I'm saving a few pennies for 2008 (and doing my best not to buy something else in between!)
Luca1973 said:
Well at least your filling your time by writing interesting posts 
Edited to at least answer the question. I'd be very surprised if they ever dropped to that level. Just look at today's prices for 959s and F40s.
Edited to at least answer the question. I'd be very surprised if they ever dropped to that level. Just look at today's prices for 959s and F40s.
But how many 959 or F40's did they make, and how many GT's did they make? I suspect (but don't know), that the GT was made in much higher quantities of either of these two. Does anyone have the figures to hand - I may be completely wrong?
Luca1973 said:
Well at least your filling your time by writing interesting posts
Edited to at least answer the question. I'd be very surprised if they ever dropped to that level. Just look at today's prices for 959s and F40s.
Edited to at least answer the question. I'd be very surprised if they ever dropped to that level. Just look at today's prices for 959s and F40s.
Edited by Luca1973 on Monday 21st August 14:50
Cheers. LOL.
Not much else to do when @ home feeling like a bag of sh1te!
If my memory serves me correctly around 1235 to 1250 were made in the end. Only a couple of hundred 959's were made. The F40 Fiat however...quite a few? (as in over 500?)
Never realised they were so expensive!!! Used to quite regularly see one, parked on the pavement outside a boarded up shop just round the corner from my office - silver most of the time but at one point it either had graphics applied all over it or the had a spare one...!
I certainly wouldn't have left it where they did.
I certainly wouldn't have left it where they did.
I can see the GT reaching that price, but it may be a while. I heard of one in the trade not so long ago at below £200k, i think it was out of warranty and needed some bits (a clutch and a rear wheel IIRC).
F40 is a remarkable animal, they made more of those than they made 993RS's and yet you'll still struggle to find one much below the original £190k sticker price (and that was in 1989!)
Awesome.
If i had that sort of cash i'd have an F40 over a CGT without a moment's hesitation. Remember when everyone had a black 930 turbo on their bedroom wall? I had an F40 up there.
F40 is a remarkable animal, they made more of those than they made 993RS's and yet you'll still struggle to find one much below the original £190k sticker price (and that was in 1989!)
Awesome.
If i had that sort of cash i'd have an F40 over a CGT without a moment's hesitation. Remember when everyone had a black 930 turbo on their bedroom wall? I had an F40 up there.
verysideways said:
If i had that sort of cash i'd have an F40 over a CGT without a moment's hesitation. Remember when everyone had a black 930 turbo on their bedroom wall? I had an F40 up there.
I know where you are coming from, but couldn't part with my dosh for an F40. The build 'quality' isn't there, plus, the GT just gives me the horn with that V10 noise!
I'd love to hear more about the sub £200k one...
verysideways said:
Remember when everyone had a black 930 turbo on their bedroom wall? I had an F40 up there.
Oh
Ditto here aswell. Most supercars nowadays have TC, ASC, XYZ, etc but not the F40. There have been other attempts at 'pure' supercars (Mclaren F1, F50, etc) but due to different purposes and priorities none have been so sweet as the F40...IMO!
droptheclutch said:
I know where you are coming from, but couldn't part with my dosh for an F40. The build 'quality' isn't there, plus, the GT just gives me the horn with that V10 noise!
You're right - the build quality isn't there in the F40. You can see the glue seeping out between the kevlar panels and you can get into it by squeezing in between the panel gaps without opening the door (almost). However, that's not the point. I has a reputation of being one of the purest most focussed driving tools of all time. I'd love to find out for myself!
Edited by willdew on Monday 21st August 16:52
C-GT's will presumably drop well below GBP200K when they go beyond three years old and fall out of warranty. Especially if they have been used properly and not kept as garage queens. Apparently, there will be no extended warranty programme on this model which will have an impact as who knows what the true long term running costs will be? If there are engine / monococque probems later on perhaps Porsche will be symapthetic in certain circumstances...
GBP150K for a reasonably well kept F40 is probably the lowest they will go for a long time to come as there are always going to be collectors with engough money to justify keeping one in their garages but as far as using them goes, what about the risks and costs! Doesn't the front clamshell cost something like GBP20K and don't they need to be practically taken apart every 5 years or so to have new bag fuel tank fitted?
I would imagine that running a 5 year old C-GT would carry similar risks and running costs and therefore, if you can only just afford to buy one at GBP150K, you probably couldn't afford to use it!
GBP150K for a reasonably well kept F40 is probably the lowest they will go for a long time to come as there are always going to be collectors with engough money to justify keeping one in their garages but as far as using them goes, what about the risks and costs! Doesn't the front clamshell cost something like GBP20K and don't they need to be practically taken apart every 5 years or so to have new bag fuel tank fitted?
I would imagine that running a 5 year old C-GT would carry similar risks and running costs and therefore, if you can only just afford to buy one at GBP150K, you probably couldn't afford to use it!
Mogulboy said:
C-GT's will presumably drop well below GBP200K when they go beyond three years old and fall out of warranty. Especially if they have been used properly and not kept as garage queens. Apparently, there will be no extended warranty programme on this model which will have an impact as who knows what the true long term running costs will be? If there are engine / monococque probems later on perhaps Porsche will be symapthetic in certain circumstances...
GBP150K for a reasonably well kept F40 is probably the lowest they will go for a long time to come as there are always going to be collectors with engough money to justify keeping one in their garages but as far as using them goes, what about the risks and costs! Doesn't the front clamshell cost something like GBP20K and don't they need to be practically taken apart every 5 years or so to have new bag fuel tank fitted?
I would imagine that running a 5 year old C-GT would carry similar risks and running costs and therefore, if you can only just afford to buy one at GBP150K, you probably couldn't afford to use it!
GBP150K for a reasonably well kept F40 is probably the lowest they will go for a long time to come as there are always going to be collectors with engough money to justify keeping one in their garages but as far as using them goes, what about the risks and costs! Doesn't the front clamshell cost something like GBP20K and don't they need to be practically taken apart every 5 years or so to have new bag fuel tank fitted?
I would imagine that running a 5 year old C-GT would carry similar risks and running costs and therefore, if you can only just afford to buy one at GBP150K, you probably couldn't afford to use it!
I don't think this sub-200 one really existed. I think a non OPC dealer (given that OPC can't touch them) would buy for 210-220 and ask 240-250 for them. Eventually they will likely fall to sub 200, but they'll be kept up at some stage by new cars like the 599 and LP640 costing near 200k themselves. I know the warranty issue stinks, but they really are fabulous cars to drive; its their undriveability (other than when compared with cars like the F40) that makes them a pain.....
Mogulboy said:
C-GT's will presumably drop well below GBP200K when they go beyond three years old and fall out of warranty. Especially if they have been used properly and not kept as garage queens. Apparently, there will be no extended warranty programme on this model which will have an impact as who knows what the true long term running costs will be? If there are engine / monococque probems later on perhaps Porsche will be symapthetic in certain circumstances...
GBP150K for a reasonably well kept F40 is probably the lowest they will go for a long time to come as there are always going to be collectors with engough money to justify keeping one in their garages but as far as using them goes, what about the risks and costs! Doesn't the front clamshell cost something like GBP20K and don't they need to be practically taken apart every 5 years or so to have new bag fuel tank fitted?
I would imagine that running a 5 year old C-GT would carry similar risks and running costs and therefore, if you can only just afford to buy one at GBP150K, you probably couldn't afford to use it!
You might be right, but how does your argument about the cost of losing warranty protection apply to the F40, which has been out of warranty for many years? GBP150K for a reasonably well kept F40 is probably the lowest they will go for a long time to come as there are always going to be collectors with engough money to justify keeping one in their garages but as far as using them goes, what about the risks and costs! Doesn't the front clamshell cost something like GBP20K and don't they need to be practically taken apart every 5 years or so to have new bag fuel tank fitted?
I would imagine that running a 5 year old C-GT would carry similar risks and running costs and therefore, if you can only just afford to buy one at GBP150K, you probably couldn't afford to use it!
Yes, the F40 does need a bag-tank replacement (recommended every ten years), whilst the CGT has a conventional, permanent fuel tank.
Perhaps, owing to its greater complexity, the CGT would over time be more costly to maintain. Then again, the fact that its build quality is a multiple of what they did to the F40 suggests that, if a CGT is driven equal miles, many fewer things will go wrong with it.
Who knows?
As for performance thrills, apart from the boost on the F40 when the turbos kick in, the CGT is more dynamic in every dimension which I can think of: braking, lateral g, acceleration, downforce, top speed, chassis stiffness, engine note. Isn't the new 599 something like 3.5 sec/lap quicker around Fiorano than the F40 is?
It's very tempting to extrapolate from the initial price pressure on the CGT to a day when the cars will cost £150k, and on that basis you could even imagine its going to £50.
The thing is, although it might seem crazy or even offensive to some, there are so many people in the world these days who could afford to pay £200k+ for a car that the price behaviour has a lot more to do with psychology and atmospherics than it does with the underlying physical reality.
)A damaged/repaired CGT might be cheap, or wait for the next major economic depression -it's only a matter of time and the price of oil will probably be the trigger, wiping £$£$£$£ of car values.
In the meantime, F40 prices are firming up very well, but 959s are still in the doldrums.
In the meantime, F40 prices are firming up very well, but 959s are still in the doldrums.
I dont think they will ever get to £150k.
It's a Porsche, fantastically well built, hasn't got any inherent reliability problems (the clutch issue isn't really an issue, its just getting used to the revs, power and directness of clutch), and looks good enough (not as dramatic as an Enzo, hence limited street cred). But if you've ever seen one in the flesh, or heard one, you'll fall in love.
There must be a queue of people waiting to buy one at £200k, I'm waiting in that queue, or will wait until I am in a position where I feel I can justify the extra £50k.
The car is so much better than anything else currently being offered at £190k new, that it will retain its value around £200k. Simple support and resistance at work. I think its heavily supported at just under £200k.
Tried to buy one earlier this year, was offered a car at £215k, and £225k. Neither car materialised, so perhaps they never existed, or the owners changed their minds, or were sold before I could get my hands on them. Eitherway, it proves that at that sort of price, they are thin on the ground.
I want one. Just listening to it, is enough to make you go weak at the knees. Haven't felt so affectionately about a car since the 355 (which also sounds lovely!).
It's a Porsche, fantastically well built, hasn't got any inherent reliability problems (the clutch issue isn't really an issue, its just getting used to the revs, power and directness of clutch), and looks good enough (not as dramatic as an Enzo, hence limited street cred). But if you've ever seen one in the flesh, or heard one, you'll fall in love.
There must be a queue of people waiting to buy one at £200k, I'm waiting in that queue, or will wait until I am in a position where I feel I can justify the extra £50k.
The car is so much better than anything else currently being offered at £190k new, that it will retain its value around £200k. Simple support and resistance at work. I think its heavily supported at just under £200k.
Tried to buy one earlier this year, was offered a car at £215k, and £225k. Neither car materialised, so perhaps they never existed, or the owners changed their minds, or were sold before I could get my hands on them. Eitherway, it proves that at that sort of price, they are thin on the ground.
I want one. Just listening to it, is enough to make you go weak at the knees. Haven't felt so affectionately about a car since the 355 (which also sounds lovely!).
Anyone else seen the fastfleet colum in EVO with the chap who's just bought himself a Zonda. He seems confident they're a stable enough investment now. As he says, they're still producing tiny numbers though, which I believe is the crutial thing relating to supercar depreciation.
Is there a roumour when Zonda production might stop? Do we know how far though their planned production run they might be? And any suggestions as to what Pagani might replace it with? Although haveing said all that, I wouldn't be surprised if they need to keep making them for a good few years yet to brake even on them.
Is there a roumour when Zonda production might stop? Do we know how far though their planned production run they might be? And any suggestions as to what Pagani might replace it with? Although haveing said all that, I wouldn't be surprised if they need to keep making them for a good few years yet to brake even on them.
Hi Gents.
It's always good to get an interesting discussion going, and I appreciate all your input.
Flemke, I like your logic.
I am a firm believer that they will hit the £150K mark, and that even good examples will be had at that level. Of course, long term ownership has to factored into any equation (like most expensive 'toys'- 10% of the value of any given decent boat for example needs to be spent yearly upon maintenance).
It is with great interest to me that I speak with some C GT owners over the next year or so to discuss 'normal' ownership costs! Being a true Porker tho, it's not going to require silly things done every 5000 miles (like some Fiats!) Oh, BTW - any of you who are 'pro' Fiat/Ferrari - don't hate me, I'm just poking a wee bit of fun at our Italian friends. I quite like some of the older models, I do, honest!!
It's always good to get an interesting discussion going, and I appreciate all your input.
Flemke, I like your logic.
I am a firm believer that they will hit the £150K mark, and that even good examples will be had at that level. Of course, long term ownership has to factored into any equation (like most expensive 'toys'- 10% of the value of any given decent boat for example needs to be spent yearly upon maintenance).
It is with great interest to me that I speak with some C GT owners over the next year or so to discuss 'normal' ownership costs! Being a true Porker tho, it's not going to require silly things done every 5000 miles (like some Fiats!) Oh, BTW - any of you who are 'pro' Fiat/Ferrari - don't hate me, I'm just poking a wee bit of fun at our Italian friends. I quite like some of the older models, I do, honest!!
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