Handling and braking in an S3

[blokey]

Hello chaps,

With my MR2 developing what can only be described as 'automotive-multiple organ failure', I'm seeking a replacement....the missus has accepted this and so my moment to acquire a Tiv may have come at last. Must move switfy she's going broody

Budget wise an S3 seems to fit the bill, and there's some nice ones on the PH classifieds...but I have a couple of quetions of you experienced S drivers.....

Firstly handling....although uprated from the S1 & 2 as I understand it the S3 can still be 'interesting', now I'm more of a Sunday blatter than a boy racer these days, but....is the thing going to try and kill me? My MR2 has it's moments espcially in the wet being a mid-engined rear drive Gen1 ( without pansy power steering, ABS or any of that wussy stuff )....so I'm not a complete numtpy...I hope.

Secondly stopping, always a good thing to be able to do. How easy are the buggers to stop, I understand it's discs on the front but barrels on the back.....has anybody uprated this to discs all round? Or is it just a case of standing on the pedal and hoping?

Well all advice would be appreciated, so fire away.

Cheers.

Tim

ps, If I can't find a decent S, I'll most likely end up getting an MR2 turbo

Edited by blokey on Monday 21st August 16:17

[ianm67]

Hi Tim,
I may not be the greatest authority on the S3 (only had mine a few months) but I can't really critisise the car in the handling department at all. The closest comparison that I can draw is with the Tiger Cat (Se7en type) that I had some years ago. Loads of grip but easily coaxed into nice, controllable oversteer with a firm but compliant ride. The brakes do take some getting used to but will pull the car up from 3 figures with authority and no real drama.
The exhaust note will soon make you forget any small shortcomings the car may have. My day to day hack is a Skoda Octavia VRS (the 180bhp 1.8T) it's a great car but it doesn't make me grin....... Put the MR2 turbo to the back of your mind and get an S........
Cheers,

IanM

[s3swiss]

Re the handling - mine has gone from being 'interesting' (due to sagged springs, original dampers and stiff steering u/js) to 'fantastic' after addition of adjustable AVO shocks with decent upgraded springs on adj. platforms, all fitted by me but set-up by local TVR dealer. See my profile for costs but all worth it and may have already been done on whatever S3 you end up buying. My background was also front wheel drive (Astra rally car etc) although I'd also played in the odd Mk2 Escort. The S3 to my mind is a good handling car when set-up nicely. Given the power to weight ratio and where that power is going down (ie at the light back-end) it will certainly let you know if you are being unwise! I went out for a few 'snowy car-park' sessions just to get used to the different characteristics from my previous front-wheel drive motors. Great fun and confidence building knowing how much you can or cannot afford to 'release' the back-end!
Re the brakes - mine are standard (except braided brake hoses) and other than needing a firmer push than later generation (over-servoed) motors, they seem fine. I might get a set of Green Stuff or Mintex fast-road pads just to combat a bit of fade I noticed on a particular twisty downhill route - however - given the weight of the car - can't see the need to convert the rears to disks (V8s excepted).
All in all - loving driving mine and it is nice to feel involved in the driving experience !

[yellabelly]

blokey, see the attached

www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=11&t=293836

The S is a terrific handling car, if you get the suspension well set up. I'm on AVO's with 9-375 front/10-325 rear springs which are a bit harsh but seem to do the job. As previously stated it is the sound and the involvement when driving that gives me the buzz. As for whether it will bite you! it is not a cerby or tuscan it has never even threatened me but, it has pulled me out of some self induced problems. Like hitting a torrent of water going across the road on a downhill section when I was travelling too fast, it stepped well out of line but was easy to control and straighten up.
Best thing is to try a few and buy the best you can afford you will not regret it!!!

Check out Pies site for all sorts of good stuff
www.tvrsseries.com/

YB

[blokey]

Thanks all

Well have spotted a couple of nice ones in the classifieds so I shall begin the hunt!

By the way I understand that the big difference between the S2 and S3 was uprated suspension, but by the sounds of it, can I not simply uprate the suspension on an S2 anyway?

[GreenV8S]

blokey said:

By the way I understand that the big difference between the S2 and S3 was uprated suspension, but by the sounds of it, can I not simply uprate the suspension on an S2 anyway?

I suggest you get yourself a copy of Steve Heath's book on the S series, this describes the changes between the various versions. From the comments here you might be tempted to think there were only four versions but in fact it was a continuous evolution with dozens of changes introduced piecemeal over the years.

The S1/S2/S3 share basically the same chassis and suspension. The S1 had the older 2.8 V6. The S4/V8S share a revised chassis and suspension, LSD and disc brakes all round. Apart from that there were lots of detail changes to the body and trim through the years, for example the S3 had longer doors which makes access easier if you're on the tall side, the dashboard layout changed continually, and so on.

My first TVR was an S2 which handled beautifully, nicely balanced with just enough power to make it rewarding to drive, but not enough to be a real handfull. As with all cars you need to ensure that the suspension bushes, dampers and springs are all in good order and that it is set up properly. These cars have had a long life by now so there is plenty of scope for things to be getting tired, but if they're in good order they go and handle very well indeed. They're often described as the most approachable modern TVRs because they give such good feedback to the driver, this makes them chuckable and great fun to drive, even if they lack the raw power of the later models. They're an excellent introduction to TVR imo.

[flinny]

Did my first track day on Sunday and can assure you they handle and stop very well indeed. I have, however uprated the shocks and springs to adjustable Gaz ones. As stated in a previous post things are going to be getting a little tired so when looking I would account for replacing these in your budget. The original ones are likely to be fine, you'll soon notice if they're not, but if you intend working it hard I would certainly consider this upgrade. There are many different makes out there and at varying prices, so have shop around and see what suits your needs best.

With regard to the brakes. Mine are totally standard and they had no problem slowing the car from 120mph to 30mph in 150 yds in order to make a tight right hand bend. Cant beat a bit of a hot brake smell in view !!! I will be taking my dust covers off next time though.

The only thing I would consider is where you live and what roads you are going to drive on. These cars are very low slung, adjustables can help here, and they have a tendancy to whack speed bumps and bottom out if you're not careful.

My sister in law has a new MR2 and it aint a patch on the S IMHO.

[Roy C]

blokey said:

By the way I understand that the big difference between the S2 and S3 was uprated suspension, but by the sounds of it, can I not simply uprate the suspension on an S2 anyway?

AFAIK the only suspension modification was the ongoing development of the rear trailing arms to reduce "squat" on acceleration. There are four types (S1, S2, S3 & S4/V8S). S1 & S2 trailing arms are no longer available. Most of these cars have (should have!) replacement dampers and springs by now (AVO, GAZ, Nitrons, etc).

There's quite a difference between an MR2 Mk1 (I had one many years ago) and an S. The MR2 was heavy (similar weight to a Cavalier) and had a tendancy, when provoked, to lift-off oversteer.

Edited by Roy C on Tuesday 22 August 10:43

[blokey]

Roy C said:

blokey said:

By the way I understand that the big difference between the S2 and S3 was uprated suspension, but by the sounds of it, can I not simply uprate the suspension on an S2 anyway?

AFAIK the only suspension modification was the ongoing development of the rear trailing arms to reduce "squat" on acceleration. There are four types (S1, S2, S3 & S4/V8S). S1 & S2 trailing arms are no longer available. Most of these cars have (should have!) replacement dampers and springs by now (AVO, GAZ, Nitrons, etc).

There's quite a difference between an MR2 Mk1 (I had one many years ago) and an S. The MR2 was heavy (similar weight to a Cavalier) and had a tendancy, when provoked, to lift-off oversteer.

Edited by Roy C on Tuesday 22 August 10:43

Sorry should have been clearer, the outgoing MR2 is a Rev 1, MkII. They had to revise the suspension quickly to make them less tail happy, hence the Rev 2 and 3 models are generally better behaved. The Rev 1's are heavy though.

I've identified several s2/s3 that look good on the classifieds, they seem to cluster around 1990-93 and £4750-5500, at that cost can I expect to get something that is is reasobaly good nick? Cosmetically they look good and I've mailed owners for some more details.

Any top tips on what to look out for? Some claim to have had recent complete rebuilds and several mention chasis treatment?

[dougc]

blokey said:

Any top tips on what to look out for? Some claim to have had recent complete rebuilds and several mention chasis treatment?

The chassis is the most common problem area for the S. Check the outriggers on both sides, the seatbelt mounting plates and the front of the 'riggers just behind the front wheels where they take a hammering from grit and stones being thrown up by the wheels. Once the rot sets in it can get expensive.....

[Roy C]

dougc said:

[quote=blokey]Any top tips on what to look out for? Some claim to have had recent complete rebuilds and several mention chasis treatment?

Outriggers as mentioned (they often rot from the top of the tube down, so they can look OK even if they're rusted through) and also the semi trailing arms, which have open tubes.

[petclub]

Tim, I've been lucky enough to have a few fun cars, the handling on the S is very good, it can be interesting, but they are sure footed. My S2 does handle differntly to my V8S, but I think the S2 is more fun in some ways. Brakes are fine on the S2, very good on the V8. Just buy one, whatever it is, they are pure pleasure...