24hr Politics !!!
Discussion
Entry list changed 25th August moving all the Honda's out of class 3 leaving Mazda no competition at all. Infact their nearest rival is over 4 seconds a lap slower on a qualifying lap. What a farce that will be but great PR.
Worse still all the Honda's are now in class 2 against at least one ETCC Civic with 4 Touring car drivers and an average lap last year 3 seconds faster than anything anyone else could ever do in class because of car spec and driver line up.
Nice one. Very "sporting" that.
Worse still all the Honda's are now in class 2 against at least one ETCC Civic with 4 Touring car drivers and an average lap last year 3 seconds faster than anything anyone else could ever do in class because of car spec and driver line up.
Nice one. Very "sporting" that.
Simon, my email to the EERC sent this morning is below. Totally agree with you - it stinks. The important point being we've secured thousands of pounds off 4 drivers to drive in class 3, where our Integra has raced for the past 4 or 5 years !!!
"I have just seen the latest classes for the 24 Hour race in a couple of weeks. I note you have moved all of the Honda’s out of Class 3 PS1 to leave the Mazda’s no competition – this is not acceptable.
Our Honda Integra is six years old, a DC2 model and only has a 1800cc engine – this is not able to compete in the same class as a 2 litre Mardi Gras Honda Civic driven by World Touring car drivers. It is complete madness.
There is no incentive to now race the Honda – and having agreed budgets with drivers on the basis that they will be racing in Class 3 of PS1, you cannot on a whim just move cars without consultation and because it looks nice having all the Honda’s together – this is a very expensive business and you are treating us exceptionally poorly.
It is about time the EERC looked after customers such as Jemco Racing (regular entrants / always paying on time) otherwise the EERC will fall apart.
Please email or ring me back (my number has been left on your answer phone) to confirm our immediate return to Class 3 PS1."
We keep getting told by Tucker it's our club - lets stick up for ourselves!
Likewise our Civic was built 100% to class 3 rules for this 24hr race.... the EERC's own rules no less. Its been Ok all year in that class, we have been paid up well in advance of each race all year and now with 2 weeks to go they decide to change it and leave us making numbers up.
Bang out of order. They obviously have no idea how much this race costs and how much time and effort goes into planning it.
I can only hope they realise what an "un-sporting" attitude this shows. It leaves us with no reason to be there which after all the time we spent planning this race is very fustrating.
Bang out of order. They obviously have no idea how much this race costs and how much time and effort goes into planning it.
I can only hope they realise what an "un-sporting" attitude this shows. It leaves us with no reason to be there which after all the time we spent planning this race is very fustrating.
going to have to send the same sort of mail, I have been moved to GT3 RS FFS with the 500+ bhp stuff!
NOT HAPPY
so a 2.9 Grandad engined ProSport with ~210Bhp (at the wheels) is fair competition to a 7,000CC Mosler, a GT2 Monaro, a GT-1 Harrier, a Darrion T90 GTR, 3 5L Falcons etc?
what sort of crazy juice is somebody on?
NOT HAPPY
so a 2.9 Grandad engined ProSport with ~210Bhp (at the wheels) is fair competition to a 7,000CC Mosler, a GT2 Monaro, a GT-1 Harrier, a Darrion T90 GTR, 3 5L Falcons etc?
what sort of crazy juice is somebody on?
Edited by Scuffers on Saturday 26th August 20:48
If memory serves me well, did this not happen at last years race as well!
Only it happened in the middle of the race whilst the car "relegated" to a higher group was actually running third in class. Allegedley the driver had to be restrained from trying to commit serious injury to the official. The official response was on the grounds of "Tough" (I cleaned that bit up)
Agree with everyone else on this that it shouldnt happen.
Hopefully common sense will prevail.
Steve
Only it happened in the middle of the race whilst the car "relegated" to a higher group was actually running third in class. Allegedley the driver had to be restrained from trying to commit serious injury to the official. The official response was on the grounds of "Tough" (I cleaned that bit up)
Agree with everyone else on this that it shouldnt happen.
Hopefully common sense will prevail.
Steve
You could be militant and demand your full money back, withdrawing your entry, as you entered in to a contract with the EERC to run in class 3, with your cars built to class 3 regulations. They have breached the contract, not you.
Sounds like James has been taken over by Stephan Ratel!!!
Sounds like James has been taken over by Stephan Ratel!!!
I do genuinely hope that a lasting and enforcable solution can be found to set and police the class stuctures. At the moment there does seem to be a bit of general grouping together of cars by model type resulting in 316 bmw`s racing against 328 bmw`s because they look the same - and I use the examples theoretically rather than literally!
The dificulty is that with racing cars you can more or less build what you want into which ever body you want. We could run a 996 GT3 RSR that looked just like our humble GT3 cup car, indeed within the GT3 cup cars there is considerable variance and I`m sure the same is true accross the manufacturers. This makes it very hard for an organiser to decide what goes where. The Marcos` for instance, our own nemesis, show huge variations. Some are slow whilst others go like the wind. Last year they were different colours so you knew which was which but this year they are even the same colour !
Once rules are in place and policing structures determined hopefully you`ll then see cars measured on their mechanical ability. The big benefit to us as drivers is that we won`t have to spend fortunes trying to keep up with the Jones` because the Jones` will have moved themselves up a class.
The other thing that needs to be decided on is exactly which type of car is going to be raced. That I think is where your difficulty comes from Simon. The Prosport by virtue of the fact it weighs less than a packet of crisps, makes it a different sort of car to a heavy production based GT car. Whether Moslers, Saleens etc should be included in the series is another argument. My own thoughs are they should not be for fear we end up like Belcar. As our noble leader once said, "Britcar with bling and not the way we are going."
I`m sure the debate will carry on and hopefully a solution can be found (I know we had a similar thread some while ago). The one thing I am sure of is that the debate here will be clean, honest and thought out. Here`s hoping the final solution proves the same.
Henry
The dificulty is that with racing cars you can more or less build what you want into which ever body you want. We could run a 996 GT3 RSR that looked just like our humble GT3 cup car, indeed within the GT3 cup cars there is considerable variance and I`m sure the same is true accross the manufacturers. This makes it very hard for an organiser to decide what goes where. The Marcos` for instance, our own nemesis, show huge variations. Some are slow whilst others go like the wind. Last year they were different colours so you knew which was which but this year they are even the same colour !
Once rules are in place and policing structures determined hopefully you`ll then see cars measured on their mechanical ability. The big benefit to us as drivers is that we won`t have to spend fortunes trying to keep up with the Jones` because the Jones` will have moved themselves up a class.
The other thing that needs to be decided on is exactly which type of car is going to be raced. That I think is where your difficulty comes from Simon. The Prosport by virtue of the fact it weighs less than a packet of crisps, makes it a different sort of car to a heavy production based GT car. Whether Moslers, Saleens etc should be included in the series is another argument. My own thoughs are they should not be for fear we end up like Belcar. As our noble leader once said, "Britcar with bling and not the way we are going."
I`m sure the debate will carry on and hopefully a solution can be found (I know we had a similar thread some while ago). The one thing I am sure of is that the debate here will be clean, honest and thought out. Here`s hoping the final solution proves the same.
Henry
To his credit JT returned my call within a couple of hours Saturday. For all those with concerns his reply was "the entry list is just that, an entry list" "final classes are still to be decided" "the DC2 will be in Class 3".
Now from a selfish point of view the 1800cc Honda has returned to its rightful place, class 3 (up against the Mazda's with sequential boxes, works backing etc!!). However, cannot help but feel alarmed that final classes have still to be decided with under two weeks to go to the race!
The over riding point here is that for teams like Jemco Racing (and Simon M & Simon S) where we are not full time professional drivers and have to self finance ourselves, our planning for the 24 hour weekend takes almost a full year (securing budgets etc)and we sell seats based on the regs in place e.g. the loose power to weight classes, that this is a "professional" race series, well run etc etc. We tend to end up looking like dicks when the rules change a fortnight before the race weekend and the paying driver asks whats going on.
Oh well enjoy and see you all next week - garage 8c if you fancy a coffee / beer.
The reason James was still working on the classes, is because more than a few had not got there drivers or cars sorted or I might add there entries. With only 4 in one class JT needed to make a race so the reforming of the classes was done over the weekend.
Parking and camping will be sorted out next year, JT has done a provisional deal with Silverstone for the next 5 years, it includes camping and parking, plus the total promotion of the Event.
James needs everyone's support, and yes he has his down side, but he is on the marshal's side, he wants the sport to benefit.
extra tickets/vouchers
phone 01252834377 or www.eerc.co.uk
thanks
Claire
Parking and camping will be sorted out next year, JT has done a provisional deal with Silverstone for the next 5 years, it includes camping and parking, plus the total promotion of the Event.
James needs everyone's support, and yes he has his down side, but he is on the marshal's side, he wants the sport to benefit.
extra tickets/vouchers
phone 01252834377 or www.eerc.co.uk
thanks
Claire
clairew60 said:
The reason James was still working on the classes, is because more than a few had not got there drivers or cars sorted or I might add there entries. With only 4 in one class JT needed to make a race so the reforming of the classes was done over the weekend.
Parking and camping will be sorted out next year, JT has done a provisional deal with Silverstone for the next 5 years, it includes camping and parking, plus the total promotion of the Event.
James needs everyone's support, and yes he has his down side, but he is on the marshal's side, he wants the sport to benefit.
extra tickets/vouchers
phone 01252834377 or www.eerc.co.uk
thanks
Claire
Parking and camping will be sorted out next year, JT has done a provisional deal with Silverstone for the next 5 years, it includes camping and parking, plus the total promotion of the Event.
James needs everyone's support, and yes he has his down side, but he is on the marshal's side, he wants the sport to benefit.
extra tickets/vouchers
phone 01252834377 or www.eerc.co.uk
thanks
Claire
JT rang me just now, he is sorting this out. As Claire says, he is having to cope with some classes having small entries and the fact that some teams are having to delay confirmation until they get all their drivers sorted. He's aware of the problems and will juggle things so that everyone gets as fair a crack of the whip as possible.
Have to say fair play for Claire on behalf of EERC coming on the forum and offering comments to those questions posed on various threads some are pretty prickly such as the class decisions....... As everyone has the same desire; great racing it's good to see it supportedby the series organiser. Many would have hidden on the forum and just read the comments. Good to see Claire on the forum. Look forward to the race and hopefully good weather - feel free to come by the TopCats garage and say hi or grab a coffee - just no touching the biscuits!!
Cheers
Darren
(TopCats Racing)
Cheers
Darren
(TopCats Racing)
I have followed this forum for sometime,
It is time the teams relise that Mr.T started YOUR club with no-money atall, and has put his name on the line. He has achieved in racing not only respect from his fellow drivers on the track, but also from the press and the marshals who gave him the highest award the BRSCC can award in our sport.
You need to talk to him on a direct basis or he will not know what you want!!!!
Marshals are his single highest goal to please,
he said' 'They give their time freely, that gets my respect, they love our dying sport'
It is time the teams relise that Mr.T started YOUR club with no-money atall, and has put his name on the line. He has achieved in racing not only respect from his fellow drivers on the track, but also from the press and the marshals who gave him the highest award the BRSCC can award in our sport.
You need to talk to him on a direct basis or he will not know what you want!!!!
Marshals are his single highest goal to please,
he said' 'They give their time freely, that gets my respect, they love our dying sport'
Britcar/Production S1 series and the 24hr race are really positive for teams/drivers with all manner of race cars that need homes..
However for 2007 there needs to be proper regulation that gives everyone a very clear picture of what is what from the word go, and a firm calendar would be another top move.
Problem we have is that what started out as a saloon formula has turned out into a free for all and I can understand why those with less cash are feeling hard done by.
On the 24hr front I think the biggest problem is the fact we have classes at all. Regardless of Honda's being driven by touring car drivers even they (and I speak as one of them!) can't win overall and whilst it might be nice to win class we like a good battle more than anything. In 2005 we were leading our class by over 30 laps at one point and that isn't good for anyone.
In Spain they run a 24hr race where each car class has a fuel allowance - so you could run almost anything but the bigger the engine the smaller the fuel allowance. What it means is that by their regulations a Clio cup car is the thing to have.
Maybe it would be a good idea to allow Porsche/Moslers as little as 40 litres of fuel then a BMW 60 litres, Honda like ours 70 litres and the more group N cars 100 litres? Then we could all race for the overall win..
However for 2007 there needs to be proper regulation that gives everyone a very clear picture of what is what from the word go, and a firm calendar would be another top move.
Problem we have is that what started out as a saloon formula has turned out into a free for all and I can understand why those with less cash are feeling hard done by.
On the 24hr front I think the biggest problem is the fact we have classes at all. Regardless of Honda's being driven by touring car drivers even they (and I speak as one of them!) can't win overall and whilst it might be nice to win class we like a good battle more than anything. In 2005 we were leading our class by over 30 laps at one point and that isn't good for anyone.
In Spain they run a 24hr race where each car class has a fuel allowance - so you could run almost anything but the bigger the engine the smaller the fuel allowance. What it means is that by their regulations a Clio cup car is the thing to have.
Maybe it would be a good idea to allow Porsche/Moslers as little as 40 litres of fuel then a BMW 60 litres, Honda like ours 70 litres and the more group N cars 100 litres? Then we could all race for the overall win..
Yes I to applaud Claire for coming onto the forums yesterday - and we at Jemco also appreciate the time, effort and commitment JT, Claire and others at the EERC are putting into staging the 24 hour weekend.
However the original point was about moving cars from class to class - and whichever way you look at it, moving certain cars WITHOUT consultation with the teams effected is wrong. We all understand the need for races within classes, but drivers have paid for rides in certain classes and need to be told "if the rules change".
Sorry Wendy Anne I can not see the relevance of your point - (unfortunately) we have moved on dramatically from the good old days, next year Britcar will be an official championship and this needs to bring along with it a relevant level of profesionalism and organisation. Yes JT should take enormous credit for where the EERC is, and yes we do talk to him directly at every race weekend, but still we find ourselves having forums such as this 10 days before the highlight of our racing year - and thats not healthy.
wendy anne said:
I have followed this forum for sometime,
It is time the teams relise that Mr.T started YOUR club with no-money atall, and has put his name on the line. He has achieved in racing not only respect from his fellow drivers on the track, but also from the press and the marshals who gave him the highest award the BRSCC can award in our sport.
You need to talk to him on a direct basis or he will not know what you want!!!!
Marshals are his single highest goal to please,
he said' 'They give their time freely, that gets my respect, they love our dying sport'
It is time the teams relise that Mr.T started YOUR club with no-money atall, and has put his name on the line. He has achieved in racing not only respect from his fellow drivers on the track, but also from the press and the marshals who gave him the highest award the BRSCC can award in our sport.
You need to talk to him on a direct basis or he will not know what you want!!!!
Marshals are his single highest goal to please,
he said' 'They give their time freely, that gets my respect, they love our dying sport'
Wendy Anne, not sure what point you are trying to make here???? we all speak with James and the EERC team ona regular bassis face to face at race weekends as well as calls and so on. The budget to do the blue ribbon event of the year for the series can be more than the average annual salary for most in the UK, when you are talking about this sort of money and the lengh of time it takes to get drivers lines up, cars ready, sponsors on board etc. people will get vexed when they feel the goal posts have been moved with no notice or consultation. The whole point of this type of forum is for competitors and the like to be to able to share their views.
No one has attacaked JT here or doubted the effort it's taken him to build the series this far but don't forget withouth the racers there would be no series, it takes both the organisers and racers to make a good series and both need to work together not form a consensus of one....
Found this on www.eerc.co.uk
marshal's raffle 24 hr race
Claire has asked, now its my turn
PLEASE help with items for the Marshals raffle, they are your lifeline guys, lets see it happen.
The Marshals pack this year:
5 Individual Food vouchers
Fri/pm .. sat /b-fast..sat/pm..sun/b-fast..
Large tee shirts
Hats
Pens
2005 24hr DVD
Key ring
Posters
Program
A drink friday PM 10- 12
Gazeebos on post for weather protection.
Bring a friend...marshals wanted by eerc to man petrol station
be in the thick of it.....01252834377...talk to JT
marshal's raffle 24 hr race
Claire has asked, now its my turn
PLEASE help with items for the Marshals raffle, they are your lifeline guys, lets see it happen.
The Marshals pack this year:
5 Individual Food vouchers
Fri/pm .. sat /b-fast..sat/pm..sun/b-fast..
Large tee shirts
Hats
Pens
2005 24hr DVD
Key ring
Posters
Program
A drink friday PM 10- 12
Gazeebos on post for weather protection.
Bring a friend...marshals wanted by eerc to man petrol station
be in the thick of it.....01252834377...talk to JT
I don`t think anyone is personally attacking James here. Ultimately he (at the moment), makes the rules and sets out the classes. As such if someone has a problem it is to him they must address their angst. Forums like this, far from being harmfull are a superb way for the club to move forward. Nothing is said behind closed doors. People have time to think out their responses and no one is under pressure. The alternative is someone ranting in the pitlane, a split second knee jerk reaction takes place and that can`t help anyone`s cause.
James came up with an idea, clearly people like that general idea because they have stuck with him through thick and thin even when things weren`t helping or furthering their own cause. That general idea now needs to be focussed and honed into a clearly defined structure that everyone can play in on equal terms. Teams on a limited budget can produce a potential class winning car without the goal posts being moved or wildcard machinary suddenly appearing out of the blue, whilst those with more open cheque books can seek overall victory. The only caveat I would add is to ensure the front and back of the grid are not too widely spaced. Try to field a grid of cars that all share the same general abilities and genes.
James does not have, by his own admission, the level of technical knowledge required to determine that structure on his own. That extra help needs to come in part from us and in part from a tecnical panel or individual in the club`s employ. I am convinced once that happens the club`s reputation will grow, people will want to take part in growing numbers and the future will be even more rosy.
But is it essential that no one confuses suggestion with critism.
Henry
James came up with an idea, clearly people like that general idea because they have stuck with him through thick and thin even when things weren`t helping or furthering their own cause. That general idea now needs to be focussed and honed into a clearly defined structure that everyone can play in on equal terms. Teams on a limited budget can produce a potential class winning car without the goal posts being moved or wildcard machinary suddenly appearing out of the blue, whilst those with more open cheque books can seek overall victory. The only caveat I would add is to ensure the front and back of the grid are not too widely spaced. Try to field a grid of cars that all share the same general abilities and genes.
James does not have, by his own admission, the level of technical knowledge required to determine that structure on his own. That extra help needs to come in part from us and in part from a tecnical panel or individual in the club`s employ. I am convinced once that happens the club`s reputation will grow, people will want to take part in growing numbers and the future will be even more rosy.
But is it essential that no one confuses suggestion with critism.
Henry
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff