What are your favourite tyres for a 911?
Discussion
Something of a poll I think.
I had previously slagged off Pirelli PZero (on a 911) until someone disagreed with me and said the latest PZero Rosso is actually very good.
So I'm using Michelin Pilot Sport Cup and very pleased with them; I've used other tyres and spoken to other RS owners in the past and had the following opinions voiced, however what do you guys think? What's the favourite tyres and why?
Pirelli Type C (grippy in dry but evil in wet; not as good as Michelin Sport Cup)
Michelin Pilot Sport (very good overall)
Michelin Pilot Sport Cup (top dry grip, still good in the wet, my definite favourite)
Continental SportContact (about the same as the Pilot Sport)
Goodyear F1 (abaout the same as the Pilot Sport, not N rated but much cheaper)
Yokohama A48R (I think - unbelievable dry grip due to soft race compound, very expensive, only available in Germany in RS sizes apparently, awful in the wet!)
Bridgestone S02 (the best all-rounder)
... and heard reports about ...
Toko Proxies T1S (supposed to be good but not N rated)
Bridgestone S03 (apparently shit)
Pirelli PZero (used to be poor at best until you disagreed with me!!!!)
I had previously slagged off Pirelli PZero (on a 911) until someone disagreed with me and said the latest PZero Rosso is actually very good.
So I'm using Michelin Pilot Sport Cup and very pleased with them; I've used other tyres and spoken to other RS owners in the past and had the following opinions voiced, however what do you guys think? What's the favourite tyres and why?
Pirelli Type C (grippy in dry but evil in wet; not as good as Michelin Sport Cup)
Michelin Pilot Sport (very good overall)
Michelin Pilot Sport Cup (top dry grip, still good in the wet, my definite favourite)
Continental SportContact (about the same as the Pilot Sport)
Goodyear F1 (abaout the same as the Pilot Sport, not N rated but much cheaper)
Yokohama A48R (I think - unbelievable dry grip due to soft race compound, very expensive, only available in Germany in RS sizes apparently, awful in the wet!)
Bridgestone S02 (the best all-rounder)
... and heard reports about ...
Toko Proxies T1S (supposed to be good but not N rated)
Bridgestone S03 (apparently shit)
Pirelli PZero (used to be poor at best until you disagreed with me!!!!)
Don't have a 911, just a lil' old 968.
For track use, I would agree that the Michelin Pilot Sport Cups are rated very highly, judging from the commments of a friend who owns a 996 GT3, and uses it exclusively for track days. Best tyres he's had, and he's been through every type of PZero. So they seem to be up at the pinnacle of R tyres at the moment. They really have minimal tread though, so can't last very long - how long have you used yours Peter, and how's the wear rate?
For my 968CS I will be getting either a set of the Michelins or PZero Corsas for this year's track days.
I think the Corsas have a bit more tread than the Michelins, which would be better for a combined road/track car? I understand Pirelli PZero C's are inferior to Pirelli PZero Corsas - heard a lot of comments about PZeros being lethal in the wet.
Bridgestone RE540's come highly recommended as well as an R tyre, but I don't think you can source them in the UK - Germany is one place you can.
In terms of normal road tyres, I thought the Bridgestone S02's were a great tyre, and got through two sets of those. Then they stopped making them, and v difficult to get hold of now I think. Tried the S03's - nothing to write home about - much less progressive than S02's. Am now on my second set of Goodyear Eagle F1's. These are good both in the dry and wet but are more for road use. Wear v quickly on trackdays. Hence the reason for using R tyres this year.
Cheers,
SFV
For track use, I would agree that the Michelin Pilot Sport Cups are rated very highly, judging from the commments of a friend who owns a 996 GT3, and uses it exclusively for track days. Best tyres he's had, and he's been through every type of PZero. So they seem to be up at the pinnacle of R tyres at the moment. They really have minimal tread though, so can't last very long - how long have you used yours Peter, and how's the wear rate?
For my 968CS I will be getting either a set of the Michelins or PZero Corsas for this year's track days.
I think the Corsas have a bit more tread than the Michelins, which would be better for a combined road/track car? I understand Pirelli PZero C's are inferior to Pirelli PZero Corsas - heard a lot of comments about PZeros being lethal in the wet.
Bridgestone RE540's come highly recommended as well as an R tyre, but I don't think you can source them in the UK - Germany is one place you can.
In terms of normal road tyres, I thought the Bridgestone S02's were a great tyre, and got through two sets of those. Then they stopped making them, and v difficult to get hold of now I think. Tried the S03's - nothing to write home about - much less progressive than S02's. Am now on my second set of Goodyear Eagle F1's. These are good both in the dry and wet but are more for road use. Wear v quickly on trackdays. Hence the reason for using R tyres this year.
Cheers,
SFV
Funnily enough....
I just stumbled across an article here on R tyres
www.porsche964.nl/docs/t3.jpg
In German unfortunately
SFV
I just stumbled across an article here on R tyres
www.porsche964.nl/docs/t3.jpg
In German unfortunately
SFV
I have P zero rosso on my car...I am very pleased with them,I was considering trying one of the new Michelin Pilot types next time round.Having read a recent Autocar tyre test article,the Pirelli performed amazingly well,so I may well stick with them.
i have had good times in the past on Yokos & have not heard a good word about S03 on a porsche at all.
i have had good times in the past on Yokos & have not heard a good word about S03 on a porsche at all.
I am happy with the Pilot Cups, have just done the one track day on them in the dry. Much better than PZero Type C in the dry and especially in the wet.
Had Eagle F1s for a while - too many punctures, don't know if that was luck or the V shaped tread pattern - they didn't grip the same but seemed to inspire confidence.
I also read that Autocar tyre test and was fairly staggered at how much better the PZero Rosso was on their M3 than the Michi. So I can understand if things havemoved on a bit!!
Will look at that german review and see what I can decypher.....
Had Eagle F1s for a while - too many punctures, don't know if that was luck or the V shaped tread pattern - they didn't grip the same but seemed to inspire confidence.
I also read that Autocar tyre test and was fairly staggered at how much better the PZero Rosso was on their M3 than the Michi. So I can understand if things havemoved on a bit!!
Will look at that german review and see what I can decypher.....
Peter,
It may be me but just to avoid confusion.....
Pirelli currently have the P-Zero "Rosso" (performance road tyre) and "Corsa" (Replacement for the Type C)
See www.silverline-raceline.co.uk/frm/motorsport_pirelli.htm for more details.
It may be me but just to avoid confusion.....
Pirelli currently have the P-Zero "Rosso" (performance road tyre) and "Corsa" (Replacement for the Type C)
See www.silverline-raceline.co.uk/frm/motorsport_pirelli.htm for more details.
Has anyone here actually done any meaningful tyre tests with the different brands. I hear so much about different tyres being good or bad. But I am guessing these good and bad recommendations come from different people presumably with different cars or car set ups. It's got to be almost impossible to judge different tyres in this way.
Another thing I hear quite regularly is that someone changes there brand of tyre and hey presto instant improvement. And then they rave about how good the new brand is. Possibly forgetting that the old tyres may well have aged, gone off or were simply knackered.
Granted there are certain brands that appear to have universal appeal and they are not exactly suprising.So has anyone tried a meaningful back to back?
Another thing I hear quite regularly is that someone changes there brand of tyre and hey presto instant improvement. And then they rave about how good the new brand is. Possibly forgetting that the old tyres may well have aged, gone off or were simply knackered.
Granted there are certain brands that appear to have universal appeal and they are not exactly suprising.So has anyone tried a meaningful back to back?
There's some good stuff here guys but is it really fair comparing R type tyres with the rest?
PZero C's were the bench mark and were excellent (except in standing water) but are no longer being made (ignore the Pirelli website) Corsas are the current tyre. I believe both these and the Pilot Cups are built on a race tyre carcase unlike Pzero C's - so should be better. These are the only ones I know of in RS sizes - pity 'cos I've heard good things of Kuhmos & Dunlops.
PZero C's were the bench mark and were excellent (except in standing water) but are no longer being made (ignore the Pirelli website) Corsas are the current tyre. I believe both these and the Pilot Cups are built on a race tyre carcase unlike Pzero C's - so should be better. These are the only ones I know of in RS sizes - pity 'cos I've heard good things of Kuhmos & Dunlops.
I agree high performance road tyres and R tyres should be viewed distinctly, although a fair few people have a spare set of rims for trackdays so are interested in both types. I would think R tyres are over the top for road driving, but have a great advantage for track days, particularly the lack of tread depth.
In terms of objective comparison for R tyres, the above German link is the only one I've seen recently. Tested on a 996 GT3. Don't understand most of it, but in summary they are saying Michelin Pilot Sport Cups are quickest, followed closely by Pirelli PZero Corsas. There is a substantial price premium on the Michelins though, so depends how much extra you're willing to pay for 1/2 a second per lap. I think the Corsas should last a bit longer than the Michelins as well.
In terms of objective comparison of high performance road tyres, the most comprehensive one I've seen recently is the Evo 2002 test. I'll cut and paste a previous post I made about this -
"Evo July 2002 issue has a 15 page comprehensive performance tyre test – size 215/45 ZR17. If you don’t want to know the results, look away now………….…
Results are as follows –
8th place Avon ZZ3 (7481 points)
7th place Bridgestone Potenza S03 (7605 points)
6th place Dunlop SP Sport 9000 (7623 points)
5th place Michelin Pilot Sport (7684 points)
4th place Pirelli P7000 (7983 points)
3rd place Toyo Proxes T1-S (8334 points)
2nd place Continental ContiSportContact (8414 points)
1st place Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 (8489 points)
I haven’t read the whole article yet (as it’s quite long), only the conclusion and results. The top three tyres are clearly superior my some margin, and not a great deal between them.
The Toyos were a ‘surprise result’. Won wet handling category, and consistently high marks on all results. Criticised for noise on road and track.
ContiSportContact – right up there with the victor. Won timed dry handling, though inconsistent. Scored highly in subjective wet handling.
Eagle F1’s – won wet and dry braking and wet lateral g. Drivers unanimously voted it best tyre on the track from subjective point of view (they didn’t know identity of tyres they were testing)
Personally, surprised by how poorly the S03’s performed, as I quite like them in the dry, but I’ve heard many negative comments about them in comparison to the old S02. And the S03 is Bridgestone’s top of the range performance tyre ??? Not good news for them, but up against some stiff competition in this test.
Yokohama weren’t able to supply any tyres in the appropriate size – out of stock! They also did a mini test on a Dunlop road legal race tyre (Dunlop Formula-R SP Sport D01J). Interesting article overall – haven’t seen a decent tyre test in some time."
Cheers,
SFV.
In terms of objective comparison for R tyres, the above German link is the only one I've seen recently. Tested on a 996 GT3. Don't understand most of it, but in summary they are saying Michelin Pilot Sport Cups are quickest, followed closely by Pirelli PZero Corsas. There is a substantial price premium on the Michelins though, so depends how much extra you're willing to pay for 1/2 a second per lap. I think the Corsas should last a bit longer than the Michelins as well.
In terms of objective comparison of high performance road tyres, the most comprehensive one I've seen recently is the Evo 2002 test. I'll cut and paste a previous post I made about this -
"Evo July 2002 issue has a 15 page comprehensive performance tyre test – size 215/45 ZR17. If you don’t want to know the results, look away now………….…
Results are as follows –
8th place Avon ZZ3 (7481 points)
7th place Bridgestone Potenza S03 (7605 points)
6th place Dunlop SP Sport 9000 (7623 points)
5th place Michelin Pilot Sport (7684 points)
4th place Pirelli P7000 (7983 points)
3rd place Toyo Proxes T1-S (8334 points)
2nd place Continental ContiSportContact (8414 points)
1st place Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 (8489 points)
I haven’t read the whole article yet (as it’s quite long), only the conclusion and results. The top three tyres are clearly superior my some margin, and not a great deal between them.
The Toyos were a ‘surprise result’. Won wet handling category, and consistently high marks on all results. Criticised for noise on road and track.
ContiSportContact – right up there with the victor. Won timed dry handling, though inconsistent. Scored highly in subjective wet handling.
Eagle F1’s – won wet and dry braking and wet lateral g. Drivers unanimously voted it best tyre on the track from subjective point of view (they didn’t know identity of tyres they were testing)
Personally, surprised by how poorly the S03’s performed, as I quite like them in the dry, but I’ve heard many negative comments about them in comparison to the old S02. And the S03 is Bridgestone’s top of the range performance tyre ??? Not good news for them, but up against some stiff competition in this test.
Yokohama weren’t able to supply any tyres in the appropriate size – out of stock! They also did a mini test on a Dunlop road legal race tyre (Dunlop Formula-R SP Sport D01J). Interesting article overall – haven’t seen a decent tyre test in some time."
Cheers,
SFV.
Unless you are specifying warm slicks on a dry track are you ever going to get the ultimate tyre.
If you do get one of the top 3 tyres are you going to be that disappointed?
The only way to find out is to try them all and see what you prefer,there is so many variables to consider here.
I think you have to be an exceptional driver to find defficiencies in the popular choices over road & track mileage.
If you do get one of the top 3 tyres are you going to be that disappointed?
The only way to find out is to try them all and see what you prefer,there is so many variables to consider here.
I think you have to be an exceptional driver to find defficiencies in the popular choices over road & track mileage.
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