Discussion
Not for me though thank god.
My brother recently had to attend court, to explain his recently acquired 12 points, so he's expecting a ban. Thing is, court was going very slow that day, so after a few hours he submitted his defence in writing and then left. They asked for his licence, to endorse it, and then said they'd get back to him.
Question is:
In the absence of his licence and the absence of any information with what they endorsed it with (or withdrawn it) can he still drive until he gets it (or a ban letter) back in the post?
My brother recently had to attend court, to explain his recently acquired 12 points, so he's expecting a ban. Thing is, court was going very slow that day, so after a few hours he submitted his defence in writing and then left. They asked for his licence, to endorse it, and then said they'd get back to him.
Question is:
In the absence of his licence and the absence of any information with what they endorsed it with (or withdrawn it) can he still drive until he gets it (or a ban letter) back in the post?
Now my brain really is trying to dig deep ...
.. I've never had experience of this, but do remember a criminal law professor giving a similar scenario as an example - his argument was that in such circumstances the driver's license was suspended once the court handed down it's verdict. Should the driver continue to drive from that time until he is informed then he is strictly driving whilst disqualified and also driving without a valid insurance (as the lack of a license invalidates his insurance).
Not sure if that's more of a technical argument than how things would be viewed in practice.
.. I've never had experience of this, but do remember a criminal law professor giving a similar scenario as an example - his argument was that in such circumstances the driver's license was suspended once the court handed down it's verdict. Should the driver continue to drive from that time until he is informed then he is strictly driving whilst disqualified and also driving without a valid insurance (as the lack of a license invalidates his insurance).
Not sure if that's more of a technical argument than how things would be viewed in practice.
You can get more than 12 points and not get a ban, especially if you were to lose your job etc. It's up to the courts. IIRC there was a guy posting on here with 19 points and still able to drive!
But that's not the issue here, lets assume he is getting a ban (or has one and doesn't know it yet).
But that's not the issue here, lets assume he is getting a ban (or has one and doesn't know it yet).
bob_defly said:
You can get more than 12 points and not get a ban, especially if you were to lose your job etc. It's up to the courts. IIRC there was a guy posting on here with 19 points and still able to drive!
But that's not the issue here, lets assume he is getting a ban (or has one and doesn't know it yet).
But that's not the issue here, lets assume he is getting a ban (or has one and doesn't know it yet).
The thing is, that *is* the issue.
At the moment he still may not get a ban and thus he can drive until he is formally told otherwise.
If it were me however, and I needed my licence; which I do, regardless of the hassle of attending court once already if I had mitigating circumstances or a particular reason that it was that important that I felt I should keep my licence then I would make sure I was there in person.
Hate to be devils advocate but I fear that if the magistrates are hearing circumstances which are that important that they are being asked to consider that they overturn the 12 points = ban scenario then if the defendant wasnt there themselves then that would show something toward their attitude to the 'crime' and how much they really support their mitigating circumstances.
I do not think it would be impossible for most people to be able to not be banned on twelve points with the right attitude in court, that they can show they have 'repented' and show that the ban would affect others.
I think this may be the one good thing about the proliferation of 3 point offences for speeding. Years ago if you got to 12 points this was quite rare and reasonably difficult or careless to do. Now you are up before the beak for perhaps breaking the speed limit by a few MPH on 4 occasions in 3 years. It is lessening the stigma attached to the 12 point limit IMO.
Short answer to the question though I believe that legally you can still drive until you are formally asked to surrender your licence in court or otherwise.
Edited by justinp1 on Monday 28th August 23:51
Justin ... he's already surrenderred his licence. (How many r's in surrender(r)ed?)
Should his licence be revoked, then the revocation is immediate and driving during the period between the revocation and receiving notification is driving without a licence. Take this example to the extreme and say that the notification is posted and gets lost in the post - does that mean that the licence was never revoked?
Should his licence be revoked, then the revocation is immediate and driving during the period between the revocation and receiving notification is driving without a licence. Take this example to the extreme and say that the notification is posted and gets lost in the post - does that mean that the licence was never revoked?
Thanks for the replies so far, I'll ask him to just phone the court, I didn't know if you could do that.
Justin, that IS the issue though. I'm not discussing whether he should have stayed and argued his case, that's his choice. But after handing over his licence there would be two possible outcomes, either he escaped a ban, and driving around until he is notified has no ramifications, or he is banned and doesn't know it yet, which is where my question stems from.
Justin, that IS the issue though. I'm not discussing whether he should have stayed and argued his case, that's his choice. But after handing over his licence there would be two possible outcomes, either he escaped a ban, and driving around until he is notified has no ramifications, or he is banned and doesn't know it yet, which is where my question stems from.
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